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Prototype chainguide/bashguard in the works...

Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
This week I have been working on a custom chainguide/bashguard combo. The design is similar to a MRP but has a bashguard intergrated in so you don't smash your chainring. It mounts using ISCG and a straight bottom bracket version will be made later.
The prototype is made out of Kevlar but production models will be made with Carbon or colored carbon.
Weight on this is tipping the scales at 50grams with a couple of holes left to drill. This does not include rollers. As of now I think I will use MRP rollers but I'm trying to find an alternative to keep the weight down.
Hopefully the final weight will come in at under 100 grams...
Testing has not begun but will shortly once I finish the prototype.

I'll continue updating with more pics and a full review once testing is complete.

If your interested in this shot me a PM.

Colors will be availalbe in RED/CARBON BLUE/CARBON YELLOW/CARBON SILVER CARBON KEVLAR, or just straight CARBON.

Here's an idea of what it looks like. Please keep in mind the guide still has to be sanded ans cleaned up a bit and is only a prototype.

 
D

djb

Monkey
Apr 6, 2006
173
0
VanCity
if you put this into production, let me know
i've been looking at some lightweight guides for a DH rig, and i'd be willing to give this one a shot

how strong do you think it will be?
i'd be skeptical about it's ability to hold up against some bashing
as well, i wouldnt want to somehow damage the iscg mounts
 
erastusboy

erastusboy

Monkey
Mar 5, 2003
470
0
How does the carbon stand up to bashing, I always thought if you got one good scratch it would be toast. Is this like a carbon/kevlar weave or just a better weave or something in the laying of the carbon? Carbon fiber is some interesting stuff.
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
Laterally the flex is minimal. There is some flex on the longer upper piece where the top roller mounts but there is not any stress in that area. The places that undergo stress are the bottom roller and if you bash... The bash will be vertical, as in straight down, and there is no flex in the guide when this happens, its just like anyother bashguard, trying to protect your chain and chainring.
Testing will begin and there will be some intentioanl bashes to see how it holds up...
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
erastusboy said:
How does the carbon stand up to bashing, I always thought if you got one good scratch it would be toast. Is this like a carbon/kevlar weave or just a better weave or something in the laying of the carbon? Carbon fiber is some interesting stuff.
Click to expand...
This is true for handlebars, the stress handle bars undergo is far more than a bash guard. Handles take a constant beatting and any chip will get bigger and eventually fail. Here the bashing doesn't happen as often and the way in which it is bashed is different. Also chipping your handle bars takes a good amount of the material out. With the chainguide it will be 2 layers of 2x2 twill carbon with a reinforcer inbetween so it will be able sustain more blows.

As for the difference in materials...

Carbon stiffness = 42.3 KSI with a density of 770g
Kevlar stiffness = 13.9 KSI with a density of 450g
Fiberglass = 10 KSI with a density of 500g

So Carbon is stronger but has a higher density so the weight is more.
Kevlar is less strong but has a lighter density.
 
Stickler

Stickler

Chimp
Feb 12, 2005
62
0
Bellingham, WA
I have a similar guide plate that I've been testing for the past 3 months. A buddy built it as a prototype and has been working really well and is super light. The chainguide backplate and bash are all one piece and is all prepreg carbon. The builder is a local company called DGS (Dirt Guard Systems) whom also builds custom fenders for many different bikes. Good luck with yours.


 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
ridiculous said:
what type of reinforcer?
Very nice project im very interested in seeing the result.
Click to expand...
I use BaltekMat, here's the describtion on the website...

BaltekMat is a low-density, nonwoven continuous-strand laminate bulk/print control mat containing 45% by volume of micro-balloons. Excellent wet-out and a laminated density of 40 to 50 lb per cubic foot—about half of fiberglass laminated mat. The continuous-strand structure provides a dramatic increase of tensile strength. Finished laminates have excellent impact strength and greater flexural strength and stiffness than solid FRP. When used as a core material, it increases stiffness in thin laminates with minimal weight increase.
 
B

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
Looks good! Figured I'd throw a picture of mine up here as well. I dremel'd the backplate out of carbon over the winter. I didn't expect it to make it past the first race to be honest, but it's held up suprisingly well! (knock on wood) I modeled the backplate after an STS since I only run a 36T ring. Only thing I wish I did differently was make more room for the guides to slide up and down on the backplate, because I have to take them off the backplate everytime to get my crank off.

 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
I'm going biking tommorrow and will give the prototype a go with MRP rollers... We'll see if it is worthy and I'll give it a good bashing. If all goes well a Carbon guide should be done this week...
 
ridiculous

ridiculous

Turbo Monkey
Jan 18, 2005
2,907
1
MD / NoVA
did any of you guys use any templates, did you trace it up. What prep work did you do before you made the cut and where can I find it?
 
julian_dh

julian_dh

Monkey
Jan 10, 2005
813
0
Stickler said:
I have a similar guide plate that I've been testing for the past 3 months. A buddy built it as a prototype and has been working really well and is super light. The chainguide backplate and bash are all one piece and is all prepreg carbon. The builder is a local company called DGS (Dirt Guard Systems) whom also builds custom fenders for many different bikes. Good luck with yours.


Click to expand...
man that guide looks amazing and is one of the cleanest ones yet, i also like the idea of just having a carbon backplate and using relieble e13 parts.
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
karpi said:
this is looking very good, any idea on posible pricing?
Click to expand...
Well, I've done some research into other boomerang pricing...

MRP CARBON boomerang only is 130
LG-1 is like 120 complete
MRP WC 1 is 120 and ranges up to 200 for the dual slalom...

Look for pricing to be around 50 bucks not including rollers, or w/e I decide works best...

Stay tooned for review tonight...
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
Colors are done with a Carbon/Kevlar Hybrid. The carbon is regular but the colored part is kevlar.

Prices on colored carbon will be higher than just regular carbon, but you can get a color to match your bike...

Here's some pics of what different colors look like











 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
*****REVIEW*****
Today I tested out the prototype at Post Canyon (freeride) and Syncline(Downhill). I used MRP rollers for this test because they were what I had and were easy to install. Post Canyon consists of north shore style stunts including some good size jumps. Duing the hour and a half run I dropped the chain ZERO times. It perform outstanding. I didn't case anything so it didn't break.
At Syncline it is fast rocky downhill... If the chain were to fall it would be there. It fell ZERO times and it took a couple hits on rocks. Bashguard held up fine and there was no damage to the chain or chainring or the rollers.
Overall I was really impressed with the prototype. The only problem I encountered was the bottom roller was spaced a little wrong so back petal would induce the chain coming off. It just needs a little adjustment but is no big deal...
I will be making the first carbon version this week and am going to check out different styles of rollers, possibly LG-1 parts tree or Truvati... MRP rollers work well but are heavy... 45 grams a piece... So I will do some weighing and testing of different styles...
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
We've been working with this design for several years now, applied for patents internationally and in the USA.
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
The first Full Carbon version is in the vaccum as I type... I got two layers of carbon with the reinforcer in the middle. It will take 12 hours to dry then I'll cut it out and put it on my bike for the full test.
It's looking good and I just wanted to give an update on the progress.
PM me with any questions...
 
H8R

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
Maybe it's just me but...

I think it's kinda dumb to air out every thought and pic of your R&D on a product that has so much related competition.

You are asking for:

A) Copy me
B) Ridicule my sophomore design stages before they are refined
C) Stop me in my tracks with a patent
 
RaID

RaID

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,393
0
Not the real North Shore (Sydney), Aus
are you just planning on attaching the MRP rollers to the backplate to keep the chain on?

If yes, i doubt that approach will be very successful at keeping the chain on in lateral movements as the rotating bashguard on standard MRP doesnt prevent the chain from coming off laterally if the chain pops of the chainring. (Hence the LG1 and G2 both having enclosed or large flanges on their rollers or equivalent to prevent this from happenning) Have you considered this?

I like the weight of the backplate, but once again its durability will come out in the testing.

Good Luck with it
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
Thanks,
I have done some testing with the MRP rollers and they have proved affective. They do have a groove in them that the chain can ride in. Really it is the top guide that is important for keeping the chain on. We'll see though.... I will try MRP, Gamut, and LG-1 Parts.
 
mandown

mandown

Poopdeck Repost
Jun 1, 2004
20,253
7,781
Transylvania 90210
H8R said:
Maybe it's just me but...

I think it's kinda dumb to air out every thought and pic of your R&D on a product that has so much related competition.

You are asking for:

A) Copy me
B) Ridicule my sophomore design stages before they are refined
C) Stop me in my tracks with a patent
Click to expand...
open source. this guy is just trying to have fun with it. i don't see him building a company and launching a campaign for major sales. dw told him there is a patent applied for, yet he continues. this is a fun hobby, not a business for the good doctor.
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
Exactly, just trying to do something new and cool. If people like it there is a option to get one for a fair price.
I'm glad there is some interest and hopefully this will push the envelope and new ideas will spark.
 
H8R

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
Dr. Ill said:
Exactly, just trying to do something new and cool. If people like it there is a option to get one for a fair price.
I'm glad there is some interest and hopefully this will push the envelope and new ideas will spark.
Click to expand...
Coolness.


As you were.

:D
 
G

gratiflying

Chimp
Apr 12, 2007
70
0
hey doc, some ideas:

1. for pulleys, try old LX 11t pulley wheels or fancy new carbon ones for r derailleurs. i've got both (not used in chainguide application though) and drilled out old pulleys with bushing (not bearing) are like 10g. the fancy drilled out carbon ones with sealed bearings are 5g and have stood up well for me (i also ride PC, syncline, etc while windsurfing in HR).

2. i've got a ti bashguard on my 1x9 enduro and it's stupidly strong and light (50g). u probably only need 1/3 of a full bashguard so you'd be looking at 15g or so for STRONG bash protection.

with a carbon boomerang, 2 carbon pulleys, aluminium bolts/hardware on the pulleys, ti bolts onto the ISCG tabs, and a ti bash guard, i'm betting you can build a sub 75g chainguide/bash setup with top and bottom rollers.

even a trimmed down alloy boomerang, old LX pulleys, non-steel hardware and a ti-bash would be sub 100g
 
Fulton

Fulton

Monkey
Nov 9, 2001
825
0
that scares me. I've seen more than a few bikes with broken/stripped/torn off ISCG mounts, the last thing I would want to do is mount the bashguard directly to them.

It looks good though. Creative thinking is what pushes this industry
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
Thanks for your input. I weighed the prototype today and it looks like it will be sub 100g.. Maybe even lighter with a carbon roller.. Testing will be on Friday. Stay tuned..
 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
Alright, so last night I put the finishing touches on the carbon prototype... The boomerang weight about 45 grams, the top guide is a SRS piece that is trimmed down and it weighs around 18 grams, and the bottom roller is off the SRS and it weighs about 25 grams... plus like 8 grams for the BB bolts... So as of now it is in the neighborhood of 90 grams +/- 5...

Here's some pics of what it looks like... i'm going biking today to see if it works:brows:





 
Dr. Ill

Dr. Ill

Monkey
Nov 29, 2005
206
0
an outboard retainer/ring is not nessesary if you have a top guide and bash gaurd, for example the LG1..
 
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