Time for a new car/truck/suv - what vehicle would you consider?

ChrisKring said:

Do some research.

For instance, a bunch of GM cars get better mileage than 30 mpg. Like the Pontiac Vibe and Toyota version which is made in California. Or the Chevy mini vans. Not exactly my style, but they get really good mileage and are cheap in comparison to say a Odyssey.

Quality is also improving on the US built cars. Go check your research and come back and tell me who is number one this year for long term reliability. On new car reviews, the Ford Fusion beat out the Camary and Accord according to Consumer's Report.

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Oh yeah, the toyota matrix? LOL!

Sure, quality is improving, as it is for japanese car makers. It's not about that, it's about the fact that they are still behind. Who cares about new car reviews? It sounds good, but it's fairly worthless. Own it for 2-4 years and then review. Of course that's not going to necessarily help you a lot with a new purchase, but the new car review is equally worthless. My best friend has the mercury milan AWD V6(AKA the ford fusion) and it's pretty sorry for milege. My subie with far more HP gets far better milege (like 8-10mpg better). It is a nice car, but with a 6 speed auto trans you'd expect better milege. Of course the reason my subie does way better is that it uses a much smaller engine, and when all that extra HP is not necessary, the turbo doesn't turn and it is quite a bit more efficient.

Not only that, but look at all the semi-efficient japanese V6s in the 3-3.5L range, they're packing 250-280hp and the US automakers can't seem to match that. They either use a supercharger (3800 series), or a V8 and sometimes "turn off" cylinders, but in the end they're just bandaids. The japanese are far more serious about producing vehicles, and the americans are far more serious about not pissing off the UAL, their suppliers, and so forth. One of my professors was head of ergo/HF for GM, and retired. It's not that they can't physically build the cars like the japense, it's that they've erected mass amounts of red tape and self imposed limitations over the years. Just as an example, they can't change contracts and use a more ergonomic wiper/light control lever because they've always used the same supplier and the union would keep them from changing to something better. It's all sorts of things like this that are rooted deep in the companies that simply screw them over time and time again.

I originally bought a Dodge Caravan for traveling to craft fairs with my show booth broken down in the back. Since I almost never had the seats in the back it made a perfect vehicle for shuttling. It also has tinted windows which conceals the bikes. No one ever expects a soccer mom's mini van to be full of rowdy downhillers. I built a bed frame so I could store my gear underneath and have a comfy place to sleep at races.

It gets decent gas milage, drives well in the snow, and can haul just about anything. While it is true that mini vans do get a bad rap, they are simply the most versatile vehicle for doing what we love to do. If you are concerned about what others think of your car choice or are insecure in your manhood then stay away from a mini van. I personally have no need to compensate nor do I give a **** about what others think of my mini van. The bottom line is that it all comes down to function and a mini van can do it all.

Side-door sill makes a great bench for putting on armor and shoes, resting between runs, eating lunch, whatever. I miss mine but it got a bit long in the tooth at 200k; shoulda just got another . . . .

JM

Kick your prof in the head. Dealing with ergo and human factors took out most of my 2004 race season. BTW: what is his name and when did he retire?

On the topic of suppliers having power, I am not sure what your prof is telling you but that isn't the case. Ask Delphi or C&A about that.

also, since you didn't take the challenge, I'll just give the answer. Buick matched Lexis for first place JD Powers scores for long term reliablity. That would be the 3-4 year old cars right now.

Really, I don't care who you buy from as long as it's domestically produced. We sell to all of them.

Really, automakers are changing. If you are not in the industry, you might not understand. I work with people from all automakers that are very pasonate about making the best cars. The days of the slacker putting out crap are done. Even the UAW guys I dealt with on my last launch had a great attitude.

What is your real mileage on the WRX? I know for a fact if you drive it hot that the mileage isn't that great. My Talon TSI only got about 20 mpg in the city. 16 mpg or so if your into the boost at 20psi. Of course, that car pulled high 12s. Oh did I mention that I only got 12 mpg once with 3 bikes on the roof rack (that was cruising at 3 digits on the speedo though)?

I have to also say a minivan. My grandpa died last year and I bought his minivan from Grandma. The thing gets 30mpg on the hwy and 25mpg in town. Its a Chrylser Town and Country. They were $30k new!!! I paid $3500 for it with 60k miles. I can haul a lot of bikes inside and on the hitch rack. I also have a box for the roof rack. I can haul 4 guys, 4 bikes, and tons of gear and good MPG to boot. You can find minivans for cheap.

Tacoma!

mandown said:

well, the truck option seems to be a big pull. any security suggestions for hanging the bikes in the back?

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well my friends completly insane so he can't just buy the dakine tailgate thing and trust that. we're now in the process of designing out own bed rack out of pvc pipes and 2x4's

a Subaru outback and get a bike rack+ save money on gass

norbar said:

Heard that Harry Potter gets a lot of pussy

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and your point is?

Tmeyer said:

I guess somebody has to support em. I'm on my second tacoma, best truck on the road IMO. MPG isn't great but I can shuttle 5 guys and 5 bikes up the local DH hill, around 3200 feet. Good luck!

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I don't have a problem with room in my truck, can fit 5 too. Plus it has a bigger towing capacity than Toyota, so it pulls my boat better. Plus handles 40 sheets of drywall with ease. I actually use a truck for what it was intended to be used for.

Kanter said:

I have to also say a minivan. My grandpa died last year and I bought his minivan from Grandma. The thing gets 30mpg on the hwy and 25mpg in town. Its a Chrylser Town and Country. They were $30k new!!! I paid $3500 for it with 60k miles. I can haul a lot of bikes inside and on the hitch rack. I also have a box for the roof rack. I can haul 4 guys, 4 bikes, and tons of gear and good MPG to boot. You can find minivans for cheap.

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I've got a honda odyssey and mave annoying issues with clearance for the hitch rack. Do you have any way to correct this. I can't seem to find anything reasonably priced that will kind of attach to my reciever and stick out and up and let me attach my rack into that (i assume your hitch is low too). Anyone have any suggestions? Or jsut go to some htich shop and get something customed up for god knows how much? (its a 2 inch btw)

ChrisKring said:

JM

Kick your prof in the head. Dealing with ergo and human factors took out most of my 2004 race season. BTW: what is his name and when did he retire?

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I'm not going to give out personal information, but it was before 2004. It was changes that he could not make that were part of the problem. He was well aware of these things. We talk about design-ergonomics all the time and flaws/violations of ergonomic principles. Kick the company, the union, and the workers in the head. He also worked on big ero projects such as the Hong Hong subway (long time ago) and providing expert testimony on ergonomic litigation.

The real milege on my wrx is about 28mpg on the highway, I did calculations on big trips to come up with this, and it's an average of better and worse. The real city milege is too variable to come up with a number. I could drive it and get 20-22 in the city, but I don't always. If I decide to accel faster, then of course I burn more fuel. Due to the highly variable nature it's kind of hard to pin it down for city, I can make it real bad, or I can make it good. In any case, it's far better than the teens that my buddy is pulling with his AWD fusion/milan. Unfortunately, he's not quite getting the claimed 19mpg in the city, it's more like 16-17mpg at best, and him and his wife are not agressive drivers. He also lives at fairly high altitude like me (6000') where he has less available power and should have a little better milege consequently. I do admit the car kind of looks nice, rides nice, but that's only one part of it.

And nope, my subie is not domestically produced. Legacys and foresters are.

At least one, if not more, of the american auto makers should have gone out of business, instead of being propped up by the government. It's that kind of stuff that just brings down the entire industry. It seems like a good idea at the time, save jobs, keep the company around, support for vehicles on the road, etc. It has the effect though of lowering the value of everything in the industry, perpetuating the cycle of poor judgement and design. That kind of crap is wrecking the hell out of the major airlines right now. Look at how much money Ford has lost? Is it better for them just to go further in debt, keep making a product that in the end has the effect of "spreading the money around" even more? If 3 people buy cars, and there are 3 automakers, they all have to share that money, but if 3 people buy cars and there's only two automakers, there's going to be more money to go around for at least one of em. This is the big net effect that has happened to some extent by propping up Ford and sometimes the others. It just causes the cycle to go further and further, and while things can "turn around", and they might actually be doing "green", it still has the effect of bringing everyone else down a few levels at the same time.

i have a duramax and i can fit plenty of bikes. As for the element my friend has one and we can fit 3 bikes in the back and seat 2 people and normally someone will try and find a seat on the floor somewhere. just get a hitch mostly any car you drive will be fine

try a dodge sprinter itll work and its diesel so good mpg considering its size