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4x frame shootout decision?? cast a vote

RJM

RJM

Monkey
May 18, 2005
258
0
on the rocks
What do you guys think about these two frames?

1. 06 Foes 2:1 4x

or

2. 07 Turner 4x team issue frame?


The turner has a 23.6" TT measurement & a 16.3" CS . being 5'10 I think it may be a little long for DJs and general riding up or down in the woods.

the foes has a 22 or 22.8 TT, 16.8" Chainstay length.

I'm having trouble deciding which one to get. need some help.

the turner would cost about 500 more but is brand new, the foes has barely been ridden and comes with a ti spring curnutt.
 
skiwithcharlie

skiwithcharlie

Chimp
Oct 30, 2006
91
0
Get the Turner man. It looks better and 500$ more to get a new frame with a 3year warranty + lifetime crash replacement option is worth it in my book....
 
rockwool

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Remember that the TT measurments differ if their HA and SA differ from each other.

Personally, I'd rather have a long TT than long CS. It sprints/climbs better as it's easier to get the power down to the ground that way.

Testride if you can...
 
1soulrider

1soulrider

Monkey
Apr 16, 2002
436
10
nor cal
Find a short Turner 4X used or wait for the next run of frames.
My short has a tt of 22" and the chainstays are 16".
Unless you are over 6' I wouldn't go for the long.
 
RJM

RJM

Monkey
May 18, 2005
258
0
on the rocks
The Turner HA is 70, SA is 74.

The Foes HA is adjustable. 68.5-69.5, The SA is 74 if this makes a difference.

even though i ride Turner bikes, I'm Leaning to the Foes B/c of TT lengths.

I wish I could ride them both first as I would. Neither are local.

Both of them are FUGLY, Turner is Yellow, the Foes is Red! :0
 
rockwool

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
The big difference would be if they had different SA, which they don't. But the Turners longer TT might have a wee bit to do with its steeper HA.

Still can't help you with the sizing though..
 
sirbikealot

sirbikealot

Monkey
Sep 19, 2001
462
0
Dundas,ON,CAN
RJM said:
What do you guys think about these two frames?

1. 06 Foes 2:1 4x

or

2. 07 Turner 4x team issue frame?


The turner has a 23.6" TT measurement & a 16.3" CS . being 5'10 I think it may be a little long for DJs and general riding up or down in the woods.

the foes has a 22 or 22.8 TT, 16.8" Chainstay length.

I'm having trouble deciding which one to get. need some help.

the turner would cost about 500 more but is brand new, the foes has barely been ridden and comes with a ti spring curnutt.
Click to expand...
have you considered weight, the foes will likely be heavier by a bunch

I like the turner's personally but don't forget to take a look at the Commencal Meta 4x
 
RJM

RJM

Monkey
May 18, 2005
258
0
on the rocks
i'm mainly going to be jumping with the frames anyway. theres no races here to even speak of so speed doesnt matter.

Think I'm going with the foes. thanks.
 
S

sbabuser

Turbo Monkey
Dec 22, 2004
1,114
55
Golden, CO
FCLinder said:
Nope, its the best 4x bike I have had. I have a 4" to 5.5" fork on it with low rise bars. LGi chain guide with 34 tooth ring. The bike weighs in around 28lbs. Super light for a 4X, DS dualy bike.
Click to expand...
Personal preference, I guess. I like my current rig's handling - it's ~67° w/ the Pike at 95mm. What it didn't have and I wanted is a lower bb, so I'm picking up an SX.
I'm probably a little too heavy and clumsy to ride a light 4x bike, anyway...
 
sirbikealot

sirbikealot

Monkey
Sep 19, 2001
462
0
Dundas,ON,CAN
big-ted said:
Yeah, wind resistance increases when you jump, obviously... :crazy:
Click to expand...
big ted perhaps you should think twice and perhaps attain a grade 8 level of physics before flaming, this is very simple physics

The air coming off the leading edge (tires, frame, fork) will deflect onto the ground causing turbulence, which will behave like a solid above a certain speed, as it will add drag (increased wind resistance), which takes energy (therefore slows you down!).
 
big-ted

big-ted

Danced with A, attacked by C, fired by D.
Sep 27, 2005
1,400
47
Vancouver, BC
sirbikealot said:
big ted perhaps you should think twice and perhaps attain a grade 8 level of physics before flaming, this is very simple physics

The air coming off the leading edge (tires, frame, fork) will deflect onto the ground causing turbulence, which will behave like a solid above a certain speed, as it will add drag (increased wind resistance), which takes energy (therefore slows you down!).
Click to expand...
Er, I'm not actually sure if you're being sarcastic here, so if I'm just rising to the bait, you got me. The air displaced by a bicycle traveling at, say 30mph is pretty negligible (compared to the rider at least), and as for it causing turbulence when it "deflects off" a jump, well, that's even less significant.

The reason it's faster to stay low on a 4x course is simply that taking air over an obstacle requires you to travel in a long, upwards arc, as opposed to squashing a jump and traveling over said obstacle in a straight line. This isn't even simple physics. It's elementary geometry! Throw in the fact that whilst staying low to the ground, you can get a few pedal strokes in and you can see clearly how time is made up.

Grade 8 physics you say? Funny. I have a PhD in physics...
 
CrabJoe StretchPants

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
big-ted said:
Er, I'm not actually sure if you're being sarcastic here, so if I'm just rising to the bait, you got me. The air displaced by a bicycle traveling at, say 30mph is pretty negligible (compared to the rider at least), and as for it causing turbulence when it "deflects off" a jump, well, that's even less significant.

The reason it's faster to stay low on a 4x course is simply that taking air over an obstacle requires you to travel in a long, upwards arc, as opposed to squashing a jump and traveling over said obstacle in a straight line. This isn't even simple physics. It's elementary geometry! Throw in the fact that whilst staying low to the ground, you can get a few pedal strokes in and you can see clearly how time is made up.

Grade 8 physics you say? Funny. I have a PhD in physics...
Click to expand...
Best. Comeback. Ever.
 
K

klunky

Turbo Monkey
Oct 17, 2003
1,078
6
Scotland
big-ted said:
Er, I'm not actually sure if you're being sarcastic here, so if I'm just rising to the bait, you got me. The air displaced by a bicycle traveling at, say 30mph is pretty negligible (compared to the rider at least), and as for it causing turbulence when it "deflects off" a jump, well, that's even less significant.

The reason it's faster to stay low on a 4x course is simply that taking air over an obstacle requires you to travel in a long, upwards arc, as opposed to squashing a jump and traveling over said obstacle in a straight line. This isn't even simple physics. It's elementary geometry! Throw in the fact that whilst staying low to the ground, you can get a few pedal strokes in and you can see clearly how time is made up.

Grade 8 physics you say? Funny. I have a PhD in physics...
Click to expand...

pwned
 
demo 9

demo 9

Turbo Monkey
Jan 31, 2007
5,910
46
north jersey
big-ted said:
Er, I'm not actually sure if you're being sarcastic here, so if I'm just rising to the bait, you got me. The air displaced by a bicycle traveling at, say 30mph is pretty negligible (compared to the rider at least), and as for it causing turbulence when it "deflects off" a jump, well, that's even less significant.

The reason it's faster to stay low on a 4x course is simply that taking air over an obstacle requires you to travel in a long, upwards arc, as opposed to squashing a jump and traveling over said obstacle in a straight line. This isn't even simple physics. It's elementary geometry! Throw in the fact that whilst staying low to the ground, you can get a few pedal strokes in and you can see clearly how time is made up.

Grade 8 physics you say? Funny. I have a PhD in physics...
Click to expand...
ya u just won
 
D

drizzle

Chimp
Mar 16, 2006
48
0
sorry to dissapoint you all the turner 4x frame that you might have seen some team riders using latley is what you will see. It was a special run of frames. Good luck trying to get one. what you could do is buy a used 5 spot and put flux rockers and a shorter shock.
 
CrabJoe StretchPants

CrabJoe StretchPants

Reincarnated Crab Walking Head Spinning Bruce Dick
Nov 30, 2003
14,163
2,484
Groton, MA
drizzle said:
sorry to dissapoint you all the turner 4x frame that you might have seen some team riders using latley is what you will see. It was a special run of frames. Good luck trying to get one. what you could do is buy a used 5 spot and put flux rockers and a shorter shock.
Click to expand...

Dave himself said he may be making another run of them for public sale....I think I recall him saying that in the Turner forum on MTBR....looking for it now.

Edit - post #10

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=328149&highlight=four+cross

Dave Turner said:
We have another batch of the mtn cross frames like we made a short run of last spring. They will only be available in Regular this time as the Longs took too long to sell. Probably in the fall sometime, we have more DHR and the MX bikes primarily for the Aussie and Kiwi market in the pipe now. There will not be too many as most of us will be getting ready for winter. The bike rocks, Steve Wentz and Filip Polk are a couple guys rocking the MX frame, but with the costs of building limited numbers here in the States they are not cheap and there is little discounting. So limited numbers they will be. I have to face that I am just a slave to the trail and all mountain market! Uhh that would be the trail with no groms standing there with shovels whining when I case a jump.

DT
Click to expand...
 
N

norcalbiker

Chimp
Jul 15, 2007
61
0
I personaly ride a blur 4x and love it for racing and going on rides. but, for pure racing i think the yeti is the best. It is snappy and pedals like a hardtail almost.
 
sirbikealot

sirbikealot

Monkey
Sep 19, 2001
462
0
Dundas,ON,CAN
big-ted said:
Er, I'm not actually sure if you're being sarcastic here, so if I'm just rising to the bait, you got me. The air displaced by a bicycle traveling at, say 30mph is pretty negligible (compared to the rider at least), and as for it causing turbulence when it "deflects off" a jump, well, that's even less significant.

The reason it's faster to stay low on a 4x course is simply that taking air over an obstacle requires you to travel in a long, upwards arc, as opposed to squashing a jump and traveling over said obstacle in a straight line. This isn't even simple physics. It's elementary geometry! Throw in the fact that whilst staying low to the ground, you can get a few pedal strokes in and you can see clearly how time is made up.

Grade 8 physics you say? Funny. I have a PhD in physics...
Click to expand...
got ya :brows: bait takin ;)

we'd have to be talking about a semi hurtling down the road at 60mph and then taking air (or decreasing the amount of air going underneath an object ie: with a truck using front spoilers) before turbulence came into play

great answer though, we do all know that the shortest distance between two objects is always a straight line
 
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