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Turner DHR x Ventana El Cuervo

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
I'm between these two frames, 07DHR or 07El Cuervo. Which one would you pick, pros and cons, etc. Basically for DH racing and some FR stuff like drops and jumps. And weight build 40/42lb for Medium size.
 

LaytonDH

Monkey
Dec 19, 2003
183
0
UT
I've ridden both and have an El Cuervo. They are very similar. The geometry is almost identical. The Cuervo is a good bit more progressive through the suspension due to the way the links are set up . The DHR's center of gravity is a bit lower. In reality, you'd be happy with either one.

The DHR's have been really hard to find. Go-Ride has Cuervo's in stock now.
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
Layton, with this build can I get it at 40lb?
Medium El C/ DHX5.0
07 888WC
CK headset
Thomson X4 50mm
Sunline V-One (not carbon)
Formula K24 200mm front/ rear
ODI lock on
X9 trigger
X9 rear der
XT 165 36t
Tioga MX
XT 11-34
e13 SRS
Thomson Elite 250mm
WTB Pure V cromo
Hope Pro II/ Mavic EX823
Michelin 16 front/ 24 rear tubeless

Do you know Andrew Pierce's El C weight?
 

Threepointtwo

Monkey
Jun 21, 2002
632
0
SLC, UT
I have both in my garage right now and Layton is right. Very similar in the way they handle and ride. The Cuervo is more supple on small stuff and more harsh on big stuff due to the ramp up. Both are low, slack, and turn like crazy. The weight is carried low on both but slightly lower on the DHR.

Good choice either way.
 

LaytonDH

Monkey
Dec 19, 2003
183
0
UT
Layton, with this build can I get it at 40lb?
Medium El C/ DHX5.0
07 888WC
CK headset
Thomson X4 50mm
Sunline V-One (not carbon)
Formula K24 200mm front/ rear
ODI lock on
X9 trigger
X9 rear der
XT 165 36t
Tioga MX
XT 11-34
e13 SRS
Thomson Elite 250mm
WTB Pure V cromo
Hope Pro II/ Mavic EX823
Michelin 16 front/ 24 rear tubeless

Do you know Andrew Pierce's El C weight?
That's similar to my build up. Mine is 40lbs 6oz with an 888 SLATA, a Ti spring on the DHX5.0, and a Ti roadie saddle. It's for sale for $2750 if you know anyone looking.

The 07-08 frames are a bit heavier than the 05-06 ones due to thicker tubing in the swingarm, so it's rare to see one under 40#.

Pierce rides very fast, in a straight line, if you know what I mean. His weighs about 42.5-43#, with Saint cranks, E13 standard guide, Fox 40, non-tubeless wheels etc. I think each time he gets his bike below 42#, it blows up mid run.
 

Mani_UT

Monkey
Nov 25, 2001
644
0
SLC, UT
Layton, with this build can I get it at 40lb?
My Cuervomatix.xls shows yours to be around 41.4 lbs as describe (no ti...) ;)
I am currently building a Small 07 which should end up sub 39lbs but it's loaded with goodies :D

Anyway the cuervo is sick.. I am coming back on one after a 2 years hiatus on a 303.. Never felt quite as confortable on it as on the cuervo and the 07-08 geo on the cuervo is spot on. The DHR is awesome too.. Hard to go wrong really...
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
I have both in my garage right now and Layton is right. Very similar in the way they handle and ride. The Cuervo is more supple on small stuff and more harsh on big stuff due to the ramp up. Both are low, slack, and turn like crazy. The weight is carried low on both but slightly lower on the DHR.

Good choice either way.
If you have to choose again, which one would you pick now that you have ridden both? Though both very similar and good bikes.
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
That's similar to my build up. Mine is 40lbs 6oz with an 888 SLATA, a Ti spring on the DHX5.0, and a Ti roadie saddle. It's for sale for $2750 if you know anyone looking.

The 07-08 frames are a bit heavier than the 05-06 ones due to thicker tubing in the swingarm, so it's rare to see one under 40#.

Pierce rides very fast, in a straight line, if you know what I mean. His weighs about 42.5-43#, with Saint cranks, E13 standard guide, Fox 40, non-tubeless wheels etc. I think each time he gets his bike below 42#, it blows up mid run.
43? That's a little high for my taste. From your build I could mimic the Ti spring, save 160g I think.
And from your experience, if you have to choose again which one would you pick? I know both good bikes, ride and handle very similar but would you say there's anything more or less that you say "for this quality I would pick X rather than Y"?
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
I've ridden both though I have much more time on the DHR.
They are both awesome yet different. Inconclusive, I know.

DHR is lighter. More linear. Jumps better. The beginning of it's travel is stiffer so it rides a bit higher and pops off small stuff better. I have never felt so in control in the air as I do on my DHR.



El Cuervo: Heavier, of course. Much more progressive. My friends with a 450# spring is softer than my DHR with a 400#.
Proven, burly design. What has it been, 5 years since they introduced this bike and almost no changes except a small geo tweak.

The sizing on the Large is nearly identical. They really do feel like the same bike.

Both great bikes, you really can't go wrong.
 

LaytonDH

Monkey
Dec 19, 2003
183
0
UT
43? That's a little high for my taste. From your build I could mimic the Ti spring, save 160g I think.
And from your experience, if you have to choose again which one would you pick? I know both good bikes, ride and handle very similar but would you say there's anything more or less that you say "for this quality I would pick X rather than Y"?
I'm selling my 07 Cuervo and I do get to pick between the two. I'm getting another Ventana. why? 1-I like everything about the bike and see no reason to change (I know how to set it up). 2-Ventana is one of the few places that does everything (CNC, Welding, Heat treat, paint) in house, so I can get a custom color. 3- they have bikes (Turner hasn't for most of the year, and may not any time soon). 4-The people at Ventana and Go-ride have always been very good to work with (same is true of turner though from what I hear).

Honestly, other than #3 above you won't find any huge difference between the two.
 

mott7070

Chimp
Apr 20, 2005
28
0
Glendale, Ca
While I cant comment on the El Cuervo, I have owned and raced an 04 DHR with a Romic and I can say that it has been one of the most wonderful experiences of my riding life. that is until I tried the DHR with a FOX DHX shock, that was slightly better...anyhoo the Turner DHR is simply a race bike. wasnt made to freeride or trick out. just get down in the most minimal time posssible. if you are interested in shaving off hundreds of seconds with no excuses..then the DHR is for you.

hope this helps

Marty
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
I've ridden both though I have much more time on the DHR.
They are both awesome yet different. Inconclusive, I know.

DHR is lighter. More linear. Jumps better. The beginning of it's travel is stiffer so it rides a bit higher and pops off small stuff better. I have never felt so in control in the air as I do on my DHR.



El Cuervo: Heavier, of course. Much more progressive. My friends with a 450# spring is softer than my DHR with a 400#.
Proven, burly design. What has it been, 5 years since they introduced this bike and almost no changes except a small geo tweak.

The sizing on the Large is nearly identical. They really do feel like the same bike.

Both great bikes, you really can't go wrong.
Hmm, I'm interested in your comment about DHR being a better jumper. Bc sometimes I'm going to FR though nothing huge, but some jumps a la DJ which pulls you up very high. Maybe I should consider this characteristic since I want a bike which is good in the air. From your experience El C is more planted in this case, you jump and it doesn't fly high, more like racing oriented?
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
I'm selling my 07 Cuervo and I do get to pick between the two. I'm getting another Ventana. why? 1-I like everything about the bike and see no reason to change (I know how to set it up). 2-Ventana is one of the few places that does everything (CNC, Welding, Heat treat, paint) in house, so I can get a custom color. 3- they have bikes (Turner hasn't for most of the year, and may not any time soon). 4-The people at Ventana and Go-ride have always been very good to work with (same is true of turner though from what I hear).

Honestly, other than #3 above you won't find any huge difference between the two.
Yep, #3 indeed is PITA. El C is available right now and DHR is supposed to be ready in a month, maybe more who knows. Besides weight one important thing is that it should be a good jumper as well. I know DH bikes are not intended to do so, specially racing ones, but I like to get air sometimes. Do you feel they're same for jumping, catching air?
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
Yep, #3 indeed is PITA. El C is available right now and DHR is supposed to be ready in a month, maybe more who knows. Besides weight one important thing is that it should be a good jumper as well. I know DH bikes are not intended to do so, specially racing ones, but I like to get air sometimes. Do you feel they're same for jumping, catching air?
Justin, I've just read your pm, thanks. Disconsider the question above, you've already answered.
 

mazzino

Chimp
Apr 7, 2005
30
0
Seattle, WA
Hmm, I'm interested in your comment about DHR being a better jumper. Bc sometimes I'm going to FR though nothing huge, but some jumps a la DJ which pulls you up very high. Maybe I should consider this characteristic since I want a bike which is good in the air. From your experience El C is more planted in this case, you jump and it doesn't fly high, more like racing oriented?
I can't comment on the DHR, but if you like to jump you'll be very happy with the El Cuervo. I ride mine at Whistler quite a bit and it feels fantastic on the jump trails (A-Line, Freight Train, etc). It's very stable in the air...and of course on the ground too! :biggrin: I would buy this bike again with no question.
 

schwaaa31

Turbo Monkey
Jul 30, 2002
1,431
1,018
Clinton Massachusetts
Quick question for all the El Cuervo owners posting here. Have any of you had any issues with the top seatstay bearing seats? Mine have stretched to the point where my bearings on both sides have quite a bit of play between the outside of the bearing and the frame. The fix according to Ventana was to put Loctite quick set steel on the outside of the bearings to take up the slop, which I've done and its held up through 2 races, and a couple rides. My problems are, what to do if I need to change the bearings, and what to do if I decide to sell the frame. Anyway, I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone on here. Ventana said it was an issue they had dealt with before.
 

LaytonDH

Monkey
Dec 19, 2003
183
0
UT
Quick question for all the El Cuervo owners posting here. Have any of you had any issues with the top seatstay bearing seats? Mine have stretched to the point where my bearings on both sides have quite a bit of play between the outside of the bearing and the frame. The fix according to Ventana was to put Loctite quick set steel on the outside of the bearings to take up the slop, which I've done and its held up through 2 races, and a couple rides. My problems are, what to do if I need to change the bearings, and what to do if I decide to sell the frame. Anyway, I was just wondering if this has happened to anyone on here. Ventana said it was an issue they had dealt with before.
The newer ones have a steel sleeve there to avoid that. I think you can get it retrofitted in, you could call Ventana and ask. They've been really good about reconditioning frames/repainting etc for fairly cheap.
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
I can't comment on the DHR, but if you like to jump you'll be very happy with the El Cuervo. I ride mine at Whistler quite a bit and it feels fantastic on the jump trails (A-Line, Freight Train, etc). It's very stable in the air...and of course on the ground too! :biggrin: I would buy this bike again with no question.
Glad to hear, I had the idea el c was more of a plow bike which likes to stay planted on ground.
 

mazzino

Chimp
Apr 7, 2005
30
0
Seattle, WA
Glad to hear, I had the idea el c was more of a plow bike which likes to stay planted on ground.
It feels like a very good compromise of both, which is largely the reason I'm so happy with it. It definitely sticks to the ground quite well...then again it's a 9" travel DH bike. I definitely didn't buy it to "go around stuff". lol...

edit: Hey if you have any more questions about the bike just shoot me a PM. Happy to answer them.
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
20x150 instead of 12mm? What hub options do I have? What are you running, Hope, Hadley?
 

DHR

Chimp
Sep 4, 2007
57
0
Even if you flat your tire or whatever maintenance you do? The adapter simply stay put at axle?
 

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
Super Tough choice.

Having a whole season on the new DHR and a few top to bottom Garby runs on my bros Ventana, Here's my 2 cents.

The El-C's beginning stroke is more supple than the DHR, which to me translated into a more forgiving ride, very stable and balanced in the air, and a bit less bucky than my DHR.

I think the DHR really shines at speed, it get's bogged down a bit when your are barley moving by the square edged hit's, but once your rolling it literally skips/floats down the trail, . . It's kind of like getting a boat up on to a plane.

Both turn really well (think that has to do with the shortening wheelbase may be?)

The New DHR is freakishly light, but I am not totally convinced the needle bearing pivots w/ grease ports are the best design up here in the NW, I end up tearing mine down a little too often.

The El-C is amazingly durable. Every pivot has quad or better bearings, and the welds are pure sex. My bro sent his original back last season and had it refurbished by Ventana for a great price, not sure who else offers that?

Hope that helps
 

Mani_UT

Monkey
Nov 25, 2001
644
0
SLC, UT
Even if you flat your tire or whatever maintenance you do? The adapter simply stay put at axle?
Exactly. I don't remenber ever taking mine off on my old one (unlike on my yeti 303 where the shims had a tendency to always slip out when I was putting my wheel in!!)
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Even if you flat your tire or whatever maintenance you do? The adapter simply stay put at axle?
It's the same as the '05-07 DHR.
The frame is 20mm with a sleeve to adapt any hub between 20 and 12mm. It comes with the 12mm. I have a 14mm hadley that fit my old DHR and I used different sleeves. It's a simple, reliable system. I'm not sure why Turner went away from it.
 

Tootrikky

Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
772
0
Mount Vernon
Exactly. I don't remenber ever taking mine off on my old one (unlike on my yeti 303 where the shims had a tendency to always slip out when I was putting my wheel in!!)
The 03-06 DHR's and El Cuervo have nearly identical 12 mm reducers in the rear dropouts held in by pinch bolts.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Hmm, I'm interested in your comment about DHR being a better jumper. Bc sometimes I'm going to FR though nothing huge, but some jumps a la DJ which pulls you up very high. Maybe I should consider this characteristic since I want a bike which is good in the air. From your experience El C is more planted in this case, you jump and it doesn't fly high, more like racing oriented?

I didn't mean to imply the EL C. jumped poorly. On larger jumps, I would say they are the equal. Where I felt the difference was on smaller jumps or trail features where you are trying to clear an obstacle or rock garden. The DHR has always been a finesse bike and not a plow bike. If your style is to jump over stuff rather than slam through it, you'll appreciate the DHR.