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2008 Boxxer: the real deal

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
So there were a whole pile of rumours on what the new boxxer was going to be like - some people said they were going to be identical, some had secret insider info that they couldn't share as usual but would post just to get some attention, some said bigger stanchions... and the list goes on.

Well in actual fact the fork saw a whole host of minor improvements, most covering issues which I had already found easy home fixes for, but there were other changes too.

1. The floodgate and compression adjuster leak (two separate issues which saw two separate solutions). The entire adjuster shell was redesigned, you'll notice the plastic below the floodgate is now grey instead of black - but the real changes were inside. The shell now has a large o-ring below the existing compression adjuster seal, which takes care of that compression adjuster. The seat for the floodgate sealing o-ring (not visible in picture) was then raised so that the adjuster sat against it properly, stopping the o-ring from popping up and allowing oil to leak.




2. Some tiny updates to the maxle. A small hole was added to the two slots for the expanding section of just one side of the maxle. This seems to encourage both sides to expand more evenly as the expansion wedges are driven in. The chamfered edges on both 6mm allen key slots have also been removed to give a little more grab area for the key, but the change is so minor that anyone dumb enough to wreck the old one could still wreck this one. For the record I've never had any problems with the maxles of past years. :)




3. Some serious changes to the arch and upper bushing areas of the fork lower. The arch now wraps a lot further back into the lower leg, especially on the inside of the legs - which should add significant stiffness and strength without the weight and wall thickness sacrifices involved with bigger stanchion diameters.





The sides around the upper bushing now also bulge out noticeably, to add more surface area for the newly designed arch to grab onto, and to provide more stiffness around the upper bushing:




But weight saving hasn't been forgotten in this quest for stiffness and strength. Obviously it's impossible to recoup it all, but they've made an effort:





4. The middle of the legs have been given a greater wall thickness. The old fork used to recess and become thinner from above the brake mount onwards, whereas the new design leaves it straight walled





Well there you have it. A number of running changes to make what was arguably the best race fork even better. For the weightweenies, I weighed the lowers on their own to compare.

07 Boxxer WC = 676g
08 Boxxer WC = 706g

So ~30g of added weight in the new fork, which will probably fluctuate a little depending on paint thickness, oil volumes, etc. Not a bad sacrifice, still the lightest DH fork around. :)
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
Interesting note:

I bought a 2007 Boxxer Team in May and it came with a gray cartridge, but when I had a leaking issue they sent me a "new" one that was blue. When I explained that the color was gray, the tech had no idea which cart. I had.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Ah the entire cartridge doesn't change colour, just that small part at the top - I'm guessing the one you had was the old style without the updates.

Hill was running the blue part at the start of the world cup season so they probably just made a that for the pro riders and a couple extras for warranty jobs such as yours.

Both parts (ie. that and the one I pictured) would be the same and feature the same changes, just the grey is a little less obnoxious and would be the production version. But in short, I'd suggest actually inspecting the part rather than just looking at colour for anyone who wants to tell which version they've got.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Yeah, I too am still on my old WC with no problems. I've run one 06 previously (and am currently still riding my 07), and rode them quite hard and didn't manage to break either. I landed a fairly large gap straight into a tree with the 06 at one stage coming to a dead stop and thought I would have killed it for sure but nothing.

The weightweenie inside is going to keep me riding the 07 until next year at least, but I think the added stiffness in the new fork should be beneficial for everyone - and the little leak fixes will save people having to sort it out themselves.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
Ah the entire cartridge doesn't change colour, just that small part at the top - I'm guessing the one you had was the old style without the updates.

Hill was running the blue part at the start of the world cup season so they probably just made a that for the pro riders and a couple extras for warranty jobs such as yours.

Both parts (ie. that and the one I pictured) would be the same and feature the same changes, just the grey is a little less obnoxious and would be the production version. But in short, I'd suggest actually inspecting the part rather than just looking at colour for anyone who wants to tell which version they've got.
My gray cartridge looks exactly like the one you have pictured, including the extra o-ring below the o-ring which holds the indent balls.

Mine leaked because the original seal flipped up somehow. I took it apart and re-assembled it and it hasn't leaked since. So, I guess it can still leak even with the additional sealing o-ring.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I'd say it might have just been assembled bad from factory. Makes sense that the o-ring alone mightn't take all the pressure though, otherwise they wouldn't have left the original one in as well. I'd say it just takes some load off the pressure seal.

While the parts quality / fit and finish of everything in the fork is brilliant, I think they have monkeys actually building the things. A lot of the cases of the seals leaking originally were because the seal was installed improperly and thus got damaged in use. I have heard of a few dislodging in use but that was really rare (1 or 2), mostly it was straight out of the box. I haven't had an issue with any of mine, I guess because I checked each before I ran them.

I've also noticed that the MC cartridge comes absolutely soaked in grease (oil soluble, but still - too much), and on one boxxer team I opened, one of the o-rings on the cartridge had been damaged on install. I guess as a habit I pull each new one apart and rebuild with my own oil preferences and have a quick glance over everything like that in the process.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,852
9,557
AK
3. Some serious changes to the arch and upper bushing areas of the fork lower. The arch now wraps a lot further back into the lower leg, especially on the inside of the legs - which should add significant stiffness and strength without the weight and wall thickness sacrifices involved with bigger stanchion diameters.
Are you kidding?
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Nope, notice I said significant (a relatively subjective term) - not equal. One or two guys here busted them at the arch, so that's what has been addressed - but going by the design it's definitely going to add stiffness. How much is obviously debatable.

I honestly do think that it's smarter that they kept it @ 32 though, because they aren't going to bump it up to 35+ and still keep the weight + wall thicknesses intact (or at best you'll get one and not the other).
 

julian_dh

Monkey
Jan 10, 2005
813
0
hopefully those rockshock guys better send me a 2008 insted of an 07, my 07 snapped right at the arch where they beefed it up, and the motion control leaks like a sieve.

what are other people experiences for waranty with rs, the fork has been ridden since bromont cc and has the recipts to prove it, im 150 pounds and the fork snapped like a twig no crash involved. and this was just after seeing a world cup used even less than my fork have stress cracks in the paint in the exact same area. the fork just snapped in half a twisted when i was coming down a fast chute into a berm, i couldn't figure out how i crashed untill i tried riding and my front tire just washed out everyturn. im sure the fork was damaged before hand but i had inspected it prior to riding and it looked fine.


also would they just put new lowers and motion control or whole new fork?
 

Rockland

Turbo Monkey
Apr 24, 2003
1,870
262
Left hand path
I had a crash this summer (which seemed rather minor) resulting in twisted lowers. As of mid August BTI had the updated lowers in stock. Here's another shot for comparison's sake.

 

S.K.C.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 28, 2005
4,096
25
Pa. / North Jersey
Udi - GOOD JOB!

Very informative and well done my friend!

I like the attention to detail...

... I never thought I'd say this BUT - it looks like I'm getting an 08' Boxxer Team.

Gonna keep the 06' 888RC2X though... just in case.
:biggrin:
 

MrPlow

Monkey
Sep 9, 2004
628
0
Toowoomba Queensland
nice work Udi. so they are not your 08's then?
By the way, my take on the hole in the maxle is more as a stress relief than anything else. It is common practice, interests me more that they hadn't done it to start with. My guess is that split was growing in some instances??
Anyway, nice work. You are such a tech whore mate, again, please read my sig.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
It's called stop drilling - I know, but in this case that's not the purpose at all (it never needed it), and if that was what it was for they would have done it on both sides as it has expansion slots either side.

From what I can see playing with the new and old side by side, it's purely there for what I said - encouraging that particular side to expand as easily as the other side so they expand at the same rate. Very minor detail.

As for the 08 - yeah I've got one but not going to bother running it until next year or so. I'd say my 07 still has another 3000 runs left in it. :)
 

Santa Maria

Monkey
Aug 29, 2007
653
0
Austria
Hi Udi,

thanx for the close up.

But now I am a little bit confused. I got my WC in May 07 and it has all the features you mentioned from 2-4?

How could that be?
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
All fork manufacturers make the next years forks in the current year. So for example forks manufactured in 07 will be 08 year model forks. The 08 model forks have a new serial number system, and the third/fourth characters in the number should be T7.

Yours doesn't have the features mentioned in 1 though? That's strange. Should have it all.
 

NJHCx4xLIFE

Monkey
Jan 23, 2007
350
0
Central Jersey
So I've wanted on e for a while and this just sealed the deal. the big question is does anyone know if QBP is still socking the 07 or are the 08's out? Anyone know?
 

Santa Maria

Monkey
Aug 29, 2007
653
0
Austria
All fork manufacturers make the next years forks in the current year. So for example forks manufactured in 07 will be 08 year model forks. The 08 model forks have a new serial number system, and the third/fourth characters in the number should be T7.

Yours doesn't have the features mentioned in 1 though? That's strange. Should have it all.
I did not remeber the look of the internals exactly, should look like your pick of 1 then......
 

Daver

Monkey
Jun 1, 2005
390
0
Shiddeny
As for the 08 - yeah I've got one but not going to bother running it until next year or so. I'd say my 07 still has another 3000 runs left in it. :)
From Monza? Just curious, as I'm going back to boxxers for the nationals, if they're in stock i'll order some.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
PM'd on farkin (hate the tiny inbox here).
 

j-posch

Monkey
Jun 25, 2007
122
0
hopefully those rockshock guys better send me a 2008 insted of an 07, my 07 snapped right at the arch where they beefed it up, and the motion control leaks like a sieve.

what are other people experiences for waranty with rs, the fork has been ridden since bromont cc and has the recipts to prove it, im 150 pounds and the fork snapped like a twig no crash involved. and this was just after seeing a world cup used even less than my fork have stress cracks in the paint in the exact same area. the fork just snapped in half a twisted when i was coming down a fast chute into a berm, i couldn't figure out how i crashed untill i tried riding and my front tire just washed out everyturn. im sure the fork was damaged before hand but i had inspected it prior to riding and it looked fine.


also would they just put new lowers and motion control or whole new fork?
I'm from the Uk and these forks have been a nightmare. I bought some 06 ones at the end of 06 used them for one race, and they were mint, but after that weekend they started leaking from the motioncontrol dampener, so they went back to the distributor for a new damper. Used them for maybe two more rides and they went rock solid as the air seal knackered, back to the distributor. Same thing happened after another couple of rides, back to the distributor. Bought a pair of teams as I was told they were more reliable and used them while the WC's were being repaired. I thought I will sell the WC's when I got them back and stick with the Teams, as I was sick of the WC's. First ride on the Teams I snapped them at the arch, I did have a fairly bad crash, but I reckon most other forks would have took it.

Got the WC's back and the dampener went first ride back, so sent both pairs back to the distributor for repair. Got both pairs back, both fitted with these new revised lowers and the WC's had a new improved dampener apparently! Decided to keep the WC's, as I thought with these upgrades surely they would be ok from now on. Sold the Teams to a friend. One ride later noticed there was oil leaking from the fork, thought it was from the lower bolt washer, so distributor sent me out some new washers. Still leaking, next race I brought them over to TF Tuned. He checked them out and told me to remove the caliper and check for cracks, they were brand new lowers! he said he had come across a few pair's with hairline cracks which had not cast properly. Removed the caliper and they were cracked. Sent them back to distributor, new lowers again. Fitted forks and went abroad with a few mates on a riding holiday. Did a days riding and forks ramped up again and are rock solid. Wrecked my holiday, as my hands were too sore and then had a crash where my front end slid out as they did'nt track properly, they just bounced of everything. That was the final straw I could'nt be bothered riding, and just did'nt ride for the rest of the holiday, while my mates did, one of them on the Teams I sold him, they have been fine ever since, wish I kept them! I was sick! Bike is in my bike bag 2 weeks later, cant be bothered taking it out. Need to send them back to the distributor for the last time, as I have a race in two weeks. There going after I get them back. I thought about asking the distributor if they would fit Team internals, but I thought why should I, these cost way more. So I'll sell them and maybe get some 888wc's.

I have had these forks for over a year now and I have rode them less than ten times, as they spend most of the time away being repaired. I have had to borrow some old 03 Boxxers of a friend for races in between repairs for races. I just thought, I have done the least riding in the last year than I have in the last six, and that is down to these forks. Out of races I have not rode, because I had to borrow forks. Its probaly why I have had the worst season yet. I even thought about giving up downhill as I'm sick of my bike never working. These forks work great when they are working(but thats never), the best I have ever used. but if I had any idea how unreliable these forks were going to be, I would have sold them ages ago. Only these forks are still under warranty, they would have cost me over a £1000 to keep having them repaired, there is no way I will still have these when the warranty runs out. I don't understand how Sram can sell these as a world cup fork, they are absolute rubbish. I was speaking to a guy at my last race and he broke eight pairs in less than a year! That is why most of the pro's are probaly running Team internals are having them rebuilt between each race. Thanks Sram for such a s***t year.
 

skatetokil

Turbo Monkey
Jan 2, 2005
2,383
-1
DC/Bluemont VA
It's called stop drilling - I know, but in this case that's not the purpose at all (it never needed it), and if that was what it was for they would have done it on both sides as it has expansion slots either side.

From what I can see playing with the new and old side by side, it's purely there for what I said - encouraging that particular side to expand as easily as the other side so they expand at the same rate. Very minor detail.

As for the 08 - yeah I've got one but not going to bother running it until next year or so. I'd say my 07 still has another 3000 runs left in it. :)
I have to tap my 06 maxle with a wrench when I install it to get them to expand evenly. Sounds like a good fix.

Also my seals are puking oil on my 1 season old Boxxer. Do you use the stock ones or is there a better option?
 

Cave Dweller

Monkey
May 6, 2003
993
0
Vitox did a cool mod a few years ago putting in marzocchi oil seals. The pictures are long gone though.

Leaking oil on the new boxxers won't affect performance of the fork seeing its a sealed cartridge. Just make sure you have enough lubrication oil for the legs and you should be right.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
32mm zoke seals will work. You need to trim a little bit off the bottom of the wiper (a non functional skirt of rubber) as there is not as much seal to seal distance in the boxxer.

you could also source seals (NOK brand) from a hydraulic/seal supplier...I did that with a Dorado (added a pressure seal instead of the foam ring) and it stopped leaking for the first time..

Just take your lowers in (or measure your seals) and they can match the sizes.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Yeah, if you just grab the NOK seals like davep said you've got the same type of seals that marzocchi run, but don't have to worry about trimming the bottom of the stock dust wiper (as you can get a seal with a form factor matching the stock seal).

Funny thing though - I'm yet to have any oil leak from the seals on any of my boxxers, what I have had is the actual pressure seal popping out if I put too much oil in the lowers / have too much positive pressure in the lowers - yeah my fault but still annoying to have to find that "sweet spot" after a rebuild. Be nice if they ran a circlip to hold the seal down, I'm curious if (for example) the NOK/marz seal presses into the casting a bit tighter as that'd probably help.

j-posch - Wow, doesn't reflect my experience at all, but some of those things actually had to be updated before the problems were solved (either via DIY mods or the updated 08 fork) so simply replacing parts wasn't really going to solve some of those issues. It's tough overseas because you don't usually get the latest gear until much later, so you're bound to get the short end of the stick when it comes to product updates. I highly doubt that what they told you was an updated damper or updated lower actually was updated, but ultimately you can either sit and whine or search/ask on forums like these for ways to solve most of the dramas yourself. Generally saves frustration/downtime and costs next to nothing.
 

j-posch

Monkey
Jun 25, 2007
122
0
Yeah, if you just grab the NOK seals like davep said you've got the same type of seals that marzocchi run, but don't have to worry about trimming the bottom of the stock dust wiper (as you can get a seal with a form factor matching the stock seal).

Funny thing though - I'm yet to have any oil leak from the seals on any of my boxxers, what I have had is the actual pressure seal popping out if I put too much oil in the lowers / have too much positive pressure in the lowers - yeah my fault but still annoying to have to find that "sweet spot" after a rebuild. Be nice if they ran a circlip to hold the seal down, I'm curious if (for example) the NOK/marz seal presses into the casting a bit tighter as that'd probably help.

j-posch - Wow, doesn't reflect my experience at all, but some of those things actually had to be updated before the problems were solved (either via DIY mods or the updated 08 fork) so simply replacing parts wasn't really going to solve some of those issues. It's tough overseas because you don't usually get the latest gear until much later, so you're bound to get the short end of the stick when it comes to product updates. I highly doubt that what they told you was an updated damper or updated lower actually was updated, but ultimately you can either sit and whine or search/ask on forums like these for ways to solve most of the dramas yourself. Generally saves frustration/downtime and costs next to nothing.
Ok how do I stop the seal in the air leg leaking air and ramping up or is it the dampener? I know of this technique, but does not always work.http://www.rideon.co.uk/filestore/Big_Ants_Boxxer_Fix.pdf
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
The guide is missing a vital step.
At step 4 (while holding the bolts down with them unscrewed most of the way - to leave the fork "open" to atmospheric pressure) you should compress the fork 1/3-1/2 of the way (I'd suggest 1/2), upon doing this air should escape. Holding the fork in this position, do up the bolts again.

As you probably know, you have to do this with the fork upside down so that the lube oil in the lowers can't leak out. It's also important that the oil level in the lowers isn't too high or low. 20ml per leg is a safe maximum, and I'd recommend that (from fully drained) just so there's a little extra to lube things, but yeah 15ml - 20ml is what you want. Any more and there will be too little internal volume at bottom out, and therefore too much internal pressure.

Aside from that, both the damper and air spring are adequately linear (therefore neither should need attention) - and neither should leak anything into the lowers. Air buildup in the lowers generally won't be a result of anything escaping the (sealed) stanchions. If you suspect this is happening then it'll be worth inspecting the o-rings in the solo air assembly (all of them, but notably the ones that seal the plug at the bottom of the stanchion and also the ones for the sliding shaft inside this plug - but I haven't seen either of those o-rings fail before).

So yeah play with the lower thing and see how you go. If you ever have leaks from the compression adjuster/floodgate area, those are easy home fixes too.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
I never had it "build up" in any of my forks hey, it shouldn't really be able to as long as the pressure seals are working right? Just the issue of there being too much +ve air in the lowers by default, coz they don't bother to compress them halfway at factory.
 

Cave Dweller

Monkey
May 6, 2003
993
0
I meant after a few months when i rebuilt i didn't have to worry about setting the legs haflway, seems the seals had worn in and didn't hold the air pressure anymore meaning i got full travel.
 

A.P

Monkey
Nov 21, 2005
423
0
boston
I was getting a really weird stiction in my world cup, and after a couple full rebuilds (clean+regrease etc) it wouldnt go away.

I narrowed it down to the prep-m under the seals. Ive always done this on all my forks and old boxxers but when I left it out for the most part it started feeling normal again...had much better small bump sensitvity. Maybe I had too much , maybe it was out of spec, I dont know. Because its so gooey and sticky it was making the fork feel like that.

Im gonna try new grease but for sure that prep-m was the cause of my problems.

I was also looking at my boxxer the other day and realized it was an 08. Sram gave it to me at the US open in may, I didnt realize it until now. I did notice now I dont have to tap the axle out like I used to, I chalked it up to a fresh axle but I guess that little hole does the trick of preventing that internal assembly from getting stuck. Good stuff.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Yeah I've never used prep M personally... I just use a good silicone grease (available at most seal/o-ring shops).

Oh, and not saying this was your problem - but with the axles, sometimes the bearings in the hub can rust/corrode and seize to the axle, making removal pretty difficult. Only happens with hubs that have bearings directly contacting the axle, and the solution is simply to grease everything well on assembly. I've had it happen before and yeah, it has nothing to do with the axle itself... never had a problem with the old axles myself.
 

miuan

Monkey
Jan 12, 2007
395
0
Bratislava, Slovakia
What about the LSC port sizing... any changes for 2008 to make it more linear? The 2006-07s were like 1 to 4 was nothing, 5 was so so, 6 and 7 too much.. fatty has also promised to show us some machined upgrade. of the ported plate.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
No changes in that region.

Fatty won't make anything, he's just good at talking.
I always ask him to prove me wrong but so far nothing. :)

I think you could do something to make the range a little more linear (like make the jellybean shaped hole a jellybean that tapers instead), but ultimately one problem with that part/design is the accuracy of the LSC selection.

Because the LSC plate is "set" in position by the adjuster rod's male end slotting into the female component of the LSC plate, there's a certain amount of play that's inherent in the design (and is neccessary to allow the damper to work as intended)... and this play tends to limit how accurate your damping setting really is. You'll notice a slight difference in the amount of damping if you turn the knob to a certain point from one direction vs. the other, and it's the aforementioned play that causes that... so in action it could provide any amount of damping within that small range.

I guess all I'm saying is that any more accuracy gained by a more linear adjuster would still kinda be counteracted by the inaccuracy caused by that play.

If you do want a damping setting between clicks though, just play with oil weight. This chart is useful (if you haven't already got it) so you can check the exact weight of the oils rather than the stupid labelled weights.

I'm running Silkolene Pro RSF 5wt, and have found the LSC setting at 2 clicks back from closed is perfect (with floodgate almost all the way open, just a few clicks in).
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
What about the LSC port sizing... any changes for 2008 to make it more linear? The 2006-07s were like 1 to 4 was nothing, 5 was so so, 6 and 7 too much.. fatty has also promised to show us some machined upgrade. of the ported plate.
Not gonna happen for a while if at all... currently stuck 20,000km from my bike, for the next 2 months!

Besides that, I found a simpler and easier interim adjustment - just take the blue LSC cap off and turn the black plastic bit directly. Still have to be careful but this way you get infinite adjustability.