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2008 MSC race series up

ÆX

ÆX

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
4,920
17
NM
Bikerpunk241 said:
Lot of MX/DS races in there......maybe they'll FINALLY separate gated and DH points.......PLEASE!!!
Click to expand...
no doubt! why don't they do that?

you should post something on there forum about rule change.
i'm with you there.
 
D

dhrace507

Monkey
Apr 2, 2004
139
0
Mountains
Yup, you read it right. Unfortunately there will be no DH race at Sol Vista at that time (although the gravity finals at Sol Vista will be awesome), but the mountain should be open for riding the DH trails that don't conflict with the XC stuff.
 
MikeMac

MikeMac

Monkey
May 18, 2006
156
0
We may throw in a DH just for fun. We'll see. The mountain has the potential to still be pretty wet in early June and we'd destroy it if we raced up high on wet terrain. That's why right now it's gated and XC only.

Gated and DH will continue to be combined for series points. Why? Because the bike industry needs gated to continue to thrive - it's the most photogenic and telegenic, plus serves as a great crossover and entry point into the sport. If we didn't pair gated with DH then participation in gated would drop off. Since we run those events at a considerable loss already splitting them apart would signal their inevitable end. And that would suck.

Coupla points about the schedule:
- 3 UCI dates (the only ones in the US)

- added SolVista (twice!

- the 2008 schedule constitutes over half of the domestic gravity NRC

- the 2008 schedule has 2 stand-alone gravity events (a la G3) including series finals

- We could keep Snowmass as state championships for DH and MX. Seeing as it's a UCI level 1 event how would all you Coloradans feel about the possibility of Australians and Californians wearing your state championship jerseys?

- pending USFS appoval there will be a newer, longer DH at Snowmass. It'll still finish in the Fanny Hill area though.

- Does it matter to you if MX and DH state championships are split?

- We may move Telluride up by a week. Our date has been set in Telluride for over 5 months. A long while back I asked the Crankworks/Winter Park guys to consider moving their date by a week and was given a flat 'no'. Not super neighborly of them. Welcome to Colorado fellas. Thanks for playing nice.

- The G3 format has been incorporated into the MSC. As a format it kicked ass. As a business venture it failed miserably. Bringing it into the MSC will give it the participation numbers it needs to stay alive. If we keep going into the hole to the tune of $10-15,000 for every G3 Bigfoot then goes under. That means the MSC goes under too.

- there are 8 gravity events in 2008. Maybe 9 if we add Final D. Maybe 11 if we add the two Enduros we're thinking about. In 2007, (including the G3 series) there were a total of 9. Less events? Yeah, but at worst only 1 less.

- we will continue to have our Angel Fire event on Memorial Day Weekend (and yes, we know that the US Open is also on that weekend - Angel Fire has gotten so huge that we need a 3-day weekend to pull it off. The Open is an amazing event - the best in the business. The fact that it's also 2000 miles away suggests that both it and Angel Fire can probably occupy the same weekend without too much controversy.)

Here's the whole schedule:
2008 Mountain States Cup Schedule – tentative

April 12-13
MSC #1, Rabbit Valley Rampage, Fruita, CO
Fruita, CO
Off-road Time Trial (Series Prologue) and XC
* pending USFS and BLM approval
* NRC Event - Endurance

May 2-4
MSC #2, The Chalk Creek Stampede
Nathrop, CO
XC, STXC, DS, MX

May 23-26
MSC #3, The Chile Challenge
Angel Fire, NM
XC, SD, MX, DH
* UCI Level 2 (level 1 pending) MX and DH
* NRC Event - Gravity and Endurance
* NMBS SD, DH and MX

June 6-8
MSC #4, The Sol Survivor (name subject to change)
SolVista Basin Ski Resort
XC, MX, DS (disciplines subject to change)
* NRC Event - Gravity

June 20-22
MSC #5, Wildflower Rush
Crested Butte, CO
DH, SD, XC
* same weekend as CB Fat Tire Festival (Bring yer townie!)

July 11-13
MSC #6, Blast the Mass
Snowmass Village, CO
XC, SD, DH, MX
* UCI Level 1 DH and MX
* possible new DH course
* Gravity and Endurance NRC
* MX State Championships
* NRC Event - Endurance and Gravity
************************************************
August 1-3 (tentative date)
MSC #7, Full Tilt in Telluride
Telluride, CO
XC, HC, DH, SD
* date pending approval from Telluride
* XC, DH and SD State Championships
* NRC Event - Endurance and Gravity

August 15-17 (tentative date)
MSC #8, Keystone Climax
Keystone, CO
DH, DH, SD (disciplines pending approval)
* UCI Level 2 DH
* G3 format (gravity stage race)
* NRC Event - Gravity
* date pending approval from Keystone

August 23-24
MSC #9, The Eldora Escape
Nederland, CO
XC, STXC (possibly HC)
* Singlespeed State Championships

August 29-31
MSC #10, Sol Squared
SolVista, CO
DH/SD/DH
* G3 format (gravity stage race)
* NRC Event - Gravity
* MSC Gravity Series Finals
********************** *
September 6-7**********
MSC #11, The Fall Classic, Breckenridge, CO
XC, HC, Circuit Race
* Endurance Series Finals
* Stage race
* NRC Event - Endurance
 
T

T-Boner

Chimp
Dec 14, 2007
46
0
Durango
I wouldn't mind the DH and MX state championships split, but it would be nice to have a MX at Telluride. If the first sol vista race is dry, have a DH for sure. I think it would also attract more people that way. A longer DH at snowmass sure would be nice as well.
 
TheInedibleHulk

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,886
0
Colorado
Was really hoping to see crested butte change to Durango, I know you guys wanted to see that happen, but I suppose you cant have everything. Going to Sol Vista and not racing DH would be gut-wrenching, but you cant control the snowfall.
 
TheInedibleHulk

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,886
0
Colorado
MikeMac said:
Gated and DH will continue to be combined for series points.

Coupla points about the schedule:
- 3 UCI dates (the only ones in the US)

- added SolVista (twice!

- the 2008 schedule constitutes over half of the domestic gravity NRC

- the 2008 schedule has 2 stand-alone gravity events (a la G3) including series finals

- We could keep Snowmass as state championships for DH and MX. Seeing as it's a UCI level 1 event how would all you Coloradans feel about the possibility of Australians and Californians wearing your state championship jerseys?

- pending USFS appoval there will be a newer, longer DH at Snowmass. It'll still finish in the Fanny Hill area though.

- Does it matter to you if MX and DH state championships are split?

- We may move Telluride up by a week. Our date has been set in Telluride for over 5 months. A long while back I asked the Crankworks/Winter Park guys to consider moving their date by a week and was given a flat 'no'. Not super neighborly of them. Welcome to Colorado fellas. Thanks for playing nice.

- The G3 format has been incorporated into the MSC. As a format it kicked ass. As a business venture it failed miserably. Bringing it into the MSC will give it the participation numbers it needs to stay alive. If we keep going into the hole to the tune of $10-15,000 for every G3 Bigfoot then goes under. That means the MSC goes under too.

-
Click to expand...
Hey Mike, This is Phil from the fix.

To answer a few of the questions...

Yes I am fine with foreigners and californians winning CO state champion jersey, and I think almost everyone will agree with me.

Yes MX and DH should be split at state champs.

I still say DH and MX points should be split, yes you will lose a little participation in MX, but nothing that couldnt be recovered by building better courses(like the Sol Vista slalom). They are different events requiring very different skill sets. I dont like gated racing, but will doing it this year at every event anyway just on principle.

G3 should NOT be total combined time. It should be a mini points series. The gaps are so much bigger in Super D that it essentially becomes worth two or three times as much as the downhills. The best downhiller should be winning, not the fittest guy who can ride downhill. I also think the courses should be chosen so as not to give an advantage to those who can afford to have a specialized super-D bike. At Angelfire and Sol Vista this year, that was the case, Dh bikes versus small bikes were a wash, that should continue.

Those clowns at Crested Butted made the MSC and Bigfoot look bad last year, especailly to those who werent completely aware of who was responisble for what. No event at all is better than that event.

Thats my 2 cents, looking forward to the season.
 
WheelieMan

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
Mike,
I'm yet another MSC racer who feels that DH and MX points should be split up. MX and DH are completely different events, use completely different bikes, completely different skills are required, etc... Combining those two events makes about as much sense as if you were to combine XC and SD. I don't buy your argument at all. But other than that, everything looks great!
 
F

FrontRangeDH

Monkey
Sep 12, 2007
591
0
15 sq. miles surrounded by reality
I personally agree that they should be combined. They are gravity events. However, since in most other series, gated and dh are separate, I think they should be for us as well.

I agree with Phil that Crested Butte is the red headed stepchild of the series and if it has to be done by CB then maybe it shouldnt happen because it seems like such a downer after the race is over and results never show and riders are treated poorly by the resort people. Thats why I love Sol Vista, they are geniunely excited to see us.

Thank you for listening to us and for the exciting year to come. Hopefully Crankworx and Telluride can be worked out to be separate.
 
TheInedibleHulk

TheInedibleHulk

Turbo Monkey
May 26, 2004
1,886
0
Colorado
ballr said:
I'll lick a downhill track free of snow if that's what it comes to, but we gotta have dh at SolVista Basin in June.
Click to expand...
Thats what I like to hear

FrontrangeDH said:
I personally agree that they should be combined. They are gravity events. However, since in most other series, gated and dh are separate, I think they should be for us as well.
Click to expand...
Youre off the team
 
B

ballr

Monkey
Apr 7, 2002
165
0
colorado
bikesaregood said:
Why does this event conflict with the N.M.B.S Series final in Tamarack, ID?
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It's unfortunate because I hear good things about the riding up there and have always wanted to go.

The simple fact of the matter is that the NMBS is irrelevant in the eyes of most riders. Their blatant and utter disrespect for the gravity rider's racing experience has doomed them IMO.

Aligning yourself with the NMBS is like playing golf in a foursome with Britney Spears, Hitler, George W. Bush, and Trent Lott (wait, that's five) - playing with them, you look like a real loser.
 
CRoss

CRoss

Turbo Monkey
Nov 20, 2006
1,329
0
The Ranch
I think the points should be separated also. I raced DH, MX, and DS last year to see how I could do in the points. This year I am not going to bother. Racing MX is just not any fun for me. I will race DS because I enjoy that. Not racing the point series I am not going to be worried about skipping a MSC cup to go race elsewhere either. So by not separating the point series, instead of gaining a MX racer you might miss out on a racer showing up at all to some races.
 
ÆX

ÆX

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
4,920
17
NM
if you guys have a vet pro class and usacycling doesn't
i will be at your events only. i go where there is a class for me.
 
ÆX

ÆX

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
4,920
17
NM
here is uci points break down for class 1-2-3 races

get 5th at a class one get 20 points, enough for racing WC.



Class 1 Class 2 Class 3

1st 60 30 10

2 40 20 6

3 30 15 4

4 25 12 2

5 20 10 1

6 18 8

7 16 6

8 14 4

9 12 2

10 10 1

11 8

12 6

13 4

14 2

15 1
 
Ithnu

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver
I've got a question, what is it with Winter Park? They seemed so determined to do things their way, but no one I talk to really likes it.

If they are in it for the better of the sport, which I think Crankworks is and its great they're in CO, shouldn't they work with MSC?
 
SnowboardinWA

SnowboardinWA

Monkey
Feb 23, 2007
880
0
Tacoma, WA
Lets give the old Cycle Cyndicate INC. crew a great round of thanks for laying the ground works for this wonderful series.
Thank you
ERIC and PAM!!!!!
 
MikeMac

MikeMac

Monkey
May 18, 2006
156
0
T-Boner said:
I wouldn't mind the DH and MX state championships split, but it would be nice to have a MX at Telluride. If the first sol vista race is dry, have a DH for sure. I think it would also attract more people that way. A longer DH at snowmass sure would be nice as well.
Click to expand...
I'll second the notion, but MX at Telluride probably isn't going to happen for a few years. The course they built for their UCI race years back was pretty impressive, but also pretty costly. The current ownership at T-ride is trying to manage their USFS relationship in order to accomodate a larger MTB program, but until they do we should all probably expect DH only - and feel fortunate that we get that - it's touch and go every year.

MM
 
MikeMac

MikeMac

Monkey
May 18, 2006
156
0
TheInedibleHulk said:
Was really hoping to see crested butte change to Durango, I know you guys wanted to see that happen, but I suppose you cant have everything. Going to Sol Vista and not racing DH would be gut-wrenching, but you cant control the snowfall.
Click to expand...
We'll keep working on Durango. Right now they seem pretty disinterested. The Butte's event will coincide with their annual fat tire festival and all the freakiness that entails including the chainless drunkfest downhill. I know that event took a couple hits last year, but they are working hard to improve it and that ultimately made our decision to go back an easy one. The folks that run the event are as human as the rest of us and an event that size is pretty stressful to manage. Last year was not their proudest moment, but to be fair, there were some riders out there who couldn't seem to turn the other cheek and absolutely delighted in stirring things up. Another positive about CB is that there are some heavy hitters on the athlete side (Kain and Christian) who are on the ground in CB pushing for improvements. Good venues are hard to find and CB is a true slice of Colorado. The little stuff can be fixed. In the big picture it's an important venue.

I know that your post wasn't so much an indictment of CB as much as it was a vote for Durango, but there are still some negative feelings left over from last year and this seemed like a good place to start in terms of addressing them. At the end of the day, CB wants the MSC and Durango doesn't.

Mike
 
MikeMac

MikeMac

Monkey
May 18, 2006
156
0
cshewmake7 said:
Oh, I'm sure it is. I've heard really good things. I was just implying that Sol Vista Basin has some of, if not the, most fun trails in the country. In my opinion.
Click to expand...
From what I hear from Matt "Big Cranky" Thompson and Wentz it's only going to get better. The SolVista folks liked the support they saw from the gravity community last year and have stepped up their commitment even further. I'm pretty interested in seeing what they come up with for 2008. I know that a new DH track and a world-cup style 4X are in the plans.

MM
 
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