DW does seem have developed a better understanding of four-bar design and I agree there isn't that much more to be done.
For most riders personal fit and geometry will make a bigger difference than A vs. B modern suspension design.
Trek 2009 pic
- Thread starter dan wask
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For most riders personal fit and geometry will make a bigger difference than A vs. B modern suspension design.
Because Manipoo IS crap. And I can say that because I've never run it or had any experience with it whatsoever. Hell...I've never even SEEN a manitou product around here. People are simply afraid of the unknown, it's ALWAYS been that way with everything.
HOWEVER...it doesn't help when you see NO ONE running the product, and even worse when you used to see a pro sporting it and then they're off it. I understand that money talks, but it still doesn't look good for them. I've never noticed yet, but apparently Berrecoth used to be a Manitou rider and now runs Fox. That says a lot for Fox and just the opposite for Manitou, despite the fact that we don't really know what the dealings behind it were.
So far, I honestly think that the BEST move a company has made lately was Mongoose recruiting Steve Romanuik. Seriously. I can't give him ALL the credit as I rode Mongoose as a kid and kinda followed them along the whole time they started selling junk in Walmart. When they released the Black Diamond series I was interested, but no one wants to be the first guy to try something new(back to being afraid of the unknown). But with Romaniuk making a move like that(and yeah, we all know he's gettin PAID) it lets you rest a little sounder. I researched the crap out of them, found NO frame fatalities or any complaints AT ALL other than two weak pivot bolts in the 06s/07s, yet I've found a whole pile of the still-beloved Bottle Rockets on the DOA list. So it's all hype. 10 people tell you it's good, it MUST be good, right? It's how the market works.
Imagine if Sam Hill rode for Trek... People would be LINED UP at every XC store in the country thinking all they need is the right bike to be that fast...Worked for the Sunday, and I think that bike sucks. Just my opinion, back off!
I see it as the other way around. Pros are going to go where the money is, so just because they're running it doesn't mean its good. If I blow up a fork, it's on me to fix it or pay to have it fixed.
As far as revolutionary products. I don't think a revolution needs to have some radical design change. If a bike is built up using existing technology, but gets the angles, ratios and parts just right so the bike rides ten times better than anything else out there, to me, that is a revolution.
As far as revolutionary products. I don't think a revolution needs to have some radical design change. If a bike is built up using existing technology, but gets the angles, ratios and parts just right so the bike rides ten times better than anything else out there, to me, that is a revolution.
Thrill I think you like to stirr. First the session, now the sunday 
And manitpoo is not crap at everything.
Old scherman, Gold Label, Revox, Evolver. All get good reviews. They just are quite incostitent with their stuff and only a half of it wokrs...
And with BR's I think ppl may be a bit overabusive for them. Some just don't understand that it's still a 140mm frame.
bdamschen I wouldn't call it a revolution but yeah I kinda agree.
And manitpoo is not crap at everything.
Old scherman, Gold Label, Revox, Evolver. All get good reviews. They just are quite incostitent with their stuff and only a half of it wokrs...
And with BR's I think ppl may be a bit overabusive for them. Some just don't understand that it's still a 140mm frame.
bdamschen I wouldn't call it a revolution but yeah I kinda agree.
I'll agree with everything you just said. And I guess all we can do is hope that Pros are somewhat picky about what they run, but I guess if it's free, what do they care? And we all know the stories that some of the pros have one-off bikes custom welded out of entirely different materials and even look a little different. Not too cool with that...
Thrill I think you like to stirr. First the session, now the sunday
And manitpoo is not crap at everything.
Old scherman, Gold Label, Revox, Evolver. All get good reviews. They just are quite incostitent with their stuff and only a half of it wokrs...
And with BR's I think ppl may be a bit overabusive for them. Some just don't understand that it's still a 140mm frame.
Ha! Oh no...I've bagged on the Sunday since everyone HAD to have one. I've ridden one that was supposedly set up by Ironhorse at some race, blah, blah, blah and it was NOT amazing. No more than the Demo 8 I was on at the time or the Old M3 I stole for a trip down the hill. Actually...I dug the M3! But WOW, what a racket that thing could make!
And I personally don't think Manipoop's stuff is poopy. Like I said earlier, I don't know anything about it, therefore it is strange and scary and must suck or something. Nothing but plain old ignorance. But they're also not a very in-your-face company. Marzocchi and even Rock Shox now are right there throwin parts at ya all the time. Hell, I mean Marz even hires fugging PORN STARS to tell you you want what they're holding! Good goddamn marketing if you ask me! Parts can suck as long as the model holding it does too!
Are you drunk? Bcos I didn't catch much of that last post!
And I think you can tell a fast bike within 1 minute on it. A lot of it is setup, but like someone stated before...it's 99% geo.
And I think you can tell a fast bike within 1 minute on it. A lot of it is setup, but like someone stated before...it's 99% geo.
Yea it's geo I'm just stating that the bike may not suit you well but still do sth to make you faster (ie. force a better position etc.).
There is a great example in suspension. Nico said about VTT that it's probably the worst feeling susp he tried and is 0% fun but it is very good for dh and just makes you go faster.
ps. I'm not drunk, just learning for my exams
There is a great example in suspension. Nico said about VTT that it's probably the worst feeling susp he tried and is 0% fun but it is very good for dh and just makes you go faster.
ps. I'm not drunk, just learning for my exams
I personally think it's just nice that we have a market where every bike company isn't running a freshly painted Intense M-1 with their company logo on it.
After reading the article in this month's Decline I am really awaiting the release of this. I hope to be on one.
Shermans had all kinds of problems too, particularly the SPV models.Thrill I think you like to stirr. First the session, now the sunday
And manitpoo is not crap at everything.
Old scherman, Gold Label, Revox, Evolver. All get good reviews. They just are quite incostitent with their stuff and only a half of it wokrs...
And with BR's I think ppl may be a bit overabusive for them. Some just don't understand that it's still a 140mm frame.
bdamschen I wouldn't call it a revolution but yeah I kinda agree.
At one point I worked on 4 Manitou forks, and all had to be sent back to Answer.
I feel bad for the people because they seem like nice guys, but you are looking at a couple of reviews and I am going off my experience with 50+ customers.