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Aerobic Training is Dead-The Scientific Proof

bikejames

Chimp
Oct 13, 2006
90
0
Aerobic Training is Dead – The Scientific Proof

Ever since I came out about a year ago and blasted some huge holes in the idea of aerobic base training for DH and 4X riders I’ve had a lot of people doubt my sanity. Aerobic base training has been a staple of training programs for decades and many an off season program for mountain bikers has included an extended period of time reeling off boring miles on a trainer. While some people embraced my concepts (and proceeded to achieve better “aerobic endurance” despite doing little to no aerobic training) many others have questioned why this concept is so different that the “scientific” one.

Well, one of the problems is that the sports sciences are more like sports training history. Let me explain - people in the strength training trenches figure out what works in the real world (which is MUCH different than a controlled lab setting) and then implement it. Sometimes what we do flies in the face of the traditional “science” of training. Sports scientists pick up on what we are doing, study it and then tell us why it works. This process usually takes about 10 years or more to go from the cutting edge in the trenches to being taught in the classroom.

So, this meant that there was not a ton of scientific studies to confirm what I knew – aerobic training is worthless. But, now there are two landmark studies that prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that anaerobic interval training is vastly superior to the out dated models still being promoted by the mainstream fitness media.

The only reason that mountain bikers feel compelled to include aerobic training in their program, particularly an aerobic base period, is to increase their aerobic capacity. The scientifically accepted method to determine aerobic capacity is VO2Max (Maximum Volume of Oxygen Consumed), which is an indicator of how well your body can utilize oxygen. Aerobic training had been shown to increase your VO2Max, so therefore was considered necessary for overall cardiovascular development.

However, few people realize that the best way to raise your VO2Max, and therefore your aerobic capacity, is through interval training, not aerobic training! While this may not make a lot of sense, it is true. Several recent studies on anaerobic intervals produced some of the largest increases in VO2Max ever see, including studies done on aerobic training.

One study in particular was done on what is popularly known as the Tabata Protocol. This method calls for 20 seconds of sprinting followed by 10 seconds rest and these mini-intervals are repeated 6-8 times per round. A workout may involve 1-3 rounds (complete recovery is allowed between rounds). Researchers found massive increases in the subjects VO2Max in addition to the anticipated increases in anaerobic endurance markers. The increases in VO2Max were some of the largest ever seen in a study and proved that aerobic training is not the only (or the best) way to increase aerobic capacity.

Another landmark study that came out in the September 2006 Journal of Physiology studied the effects of 20 minutes of interval training (30 second sprints followed by 4 minutes of rest) vs. 90-120 minutes of traditional aerobic heart rate zone training. They found that the interval group which did only 1 hour of exercise per week had the same improvements in aerobic capacity as the aerobic group. Did I mention the aerobic group spent 4-6 hours per week exercising?

4 to 6 times as much exercise to get the same results in aerobic capacity? This isn’t even taking into account that the interval group improved their anaerobic capacity, something the aerobic group did not. This finding is astounding and shows just how much time you waste with aerobic training.

I’ve mentioned this before and here is the proof. All of this means that if you have limited training time (and who doesn’t) you are wasting your time with aerobic training. Anaerobic intervals are the only way to maximize the effectiveness of limited training time.

Also, there is no evidence at all that you will burn out or get injured by training with intervals year round. This is simply a myth that has been told so many times that it has been taken as the truth. I challenge anyone to find me a single study that backs this claim.

What has been found is that going straight into hard training (either strength or intervals or aerobic) without a preparatory period will increase the likelihood of injury. So, like everything else, you must work into full blown hard core intervals and cycle their intensity and duration but there is no reason you can not do intervals year round.

Now, just to balance this out, there are 2 times when aerobic training has a place in your program. First, if you are so out of shape you can not tolerate even the easiest intervals then you should spend some time doing aerobic training to build your work capacity up a bit. But once you can do intervals you should make the switch.

Second, aerobic exercise is great for active recovery (something I have also mentioned before). Going out for a light 20 minute jog or ride will help to flush blood into the muscles and help you recover from your strength training and interval sessions faster. Outside of these 2 things, though, aerobic training is dead.

My mission in life is to drag our sport into the 21st century. Old and outdated training methods that waste your time and effort need to be confronted and dealt with. I know that taking on sacred cows like this will never make me popular with the mainstream bike industry but as one of the best strength coaches in the world Mike Boyle puts it – “I will never cease to be wrong, I may just cease to be popular”.

So, there you have it. It took me a few tries to get everything out there but I feel that I have proven that aerobic training, particularly aerobic base training for DH and 4X riders, is a waste of time and effort. You can get better results in aerobic capacity in less time while also increasing anaerobic capacity. This should be something that mountain bikers everywhere rejoice at because aerobic training is some of the most tedious and boring stuff around.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,573
24,193
media blackout
My mission in life is to drag our sport into the 21st century.
You, my friend, are aiming, very, very low. Its like trying to hook up with the fattest chick at the all you can eat buffet.


My life goal, is to create a downhill race based on the Thunderdome Contests of the Mad Max era. Riders will be armed with chains and maces. Bears and lions will be on the course, as will land mines. Spectators will throw fire ants at you. If you survive the course and eliminate your competitors, Richard Simmons will be at the finish line and will attempt to sodomize you. You must slay him with a toothbrush.

No, I am not fvkcing around with this one.
 

schwinnson

Chimp
Feb 3, 2002
13
0
Simcoe, Ont, Canada
James is there any chance you could post up the journal article/authors for these studies so we could look them up?

Ive seen remarks like this before, and although I don't doubt interval trainings effects on raising your VO2 max, especially with Tabata's, Id like to see the methodology of the study first. A lot of studies take what subjects they can get, which usually consist of untrained, binge drinking university students who get in the study to make a buck (I know because I have participated in studies of this sort before). For someone who has been training, and is physically fit with a strong aerobic base put down will not have the same large increase in VO2 as someone who doesn't regularly exercise.

Until I read it for myself, I wont be straying far from my base and interval periods.
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,443
0
Ventura,CA
Ummmm what article in the Sept 2006 J. Physiol. I'm looking at it right now and can't see a study anything like that?

If you're going to use a study to support your point cite it!

Please let me know, cause your arguments always crack me up. Cause you know DH/4x is so different then every other speed sport. All those track and roadie sprinters must all be doing it wrong too.
 

Cant Climb

Turbo Monkey
May 9, 2004
2,683
10
Nice article.

Tabata's are good but they make you tired as hell....

But like you say, great for people with limited time who want to maintain some sort of fitness......which makes riding much more fun.....
 

BikeMike

Monkey
Feb 24, 2006
784
0
James is there any chance you could post up the journal article/authors for these studies so we could look them up?

Until I read it for myself, I wont be straying far from my base and interval periods.
Seconded!

Sources/citations list.
 

vitox

Turbo Monkey
Sep 23, 2001
2,936
1
Santiago du Chili
I like to ride my bicycle.
yes but just think of all those hours WASTED and no anaerobic gain, surely that cant be worth it can it?



seriously now, probably the guy has a point but then again thats not the whole picture, i cannot believe, even if you were a machine type, that general riding wont be good for you, i mean, im no racer but to train just intervals all day would certainly do bad stuff for my motivation if i were one.
 

Jettj45

Monkey
Oct 20, 2005
670
3
Butthole of NC
yes but just think of all those hours WASTED and no anaerobic gain, surely that cant be worth it can it?



seriously now, probably the guy has a point but then again thats not the whole picture, i cannot believe, even if you were a machine type, that general riding wont be good for you, i mean, im no racer but to train just intervals all day would certainly do bad stuff for my motivation if i were one.
He's not saying general riding isnt good for you...Just Interval training is better for racer training.
 

skinny mike

Turbo Monkey
Jan 24, 2005
6,415
0
it does make some sense to me. when i ran track i never really felt any gain by just going out and running distance, but when i did intervals i would notice a return on both anaerobic and aerobic output.

lately when i've been going to the gym i've been doing a hard 30 min on the bike where i would be at the middle resistance setting and keep it between 85-100 rpm for most of the workout. then i would step it up to around 110 rpm for about a minute, after that i would finish with a solid 2-3 minutes of keeping it above 100 rpm. it hurts a bit, but it feels so good the next day.
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,443
0
Ventura,CA
Nobody out there disputes interval training and sprint training is good for DH/4X. What James is on here always preaching is aerobic training has not point other than the two he makes in his statement. He claims aerobic work will only make you a slower if you do it. Which goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed.

Yes you do the bulk of your training in a specific manner, for DH is that is developing power and the ability to do repeated max or just submaxial efforts many times over a 3-6 min in general time span. Just for the record I'd also question any coach that said DH racer should only spend hours and hours and hour riding slow.

The point is he's taking things to an extreme to make himself sound like the end all be all coach in DH.

If doing a large amount of aerobic training was that damaging those guys you see sprinting on the road wouldn't be able to put out the power they do. Cipo/Boonen/Petacchi and the like wouldn't be able to put out anywhere near the power they do. They spend 4-6 hours on the bike riding most of the year. Even the purest sprinters in the sport the guys on the velodrome racing match sprints do base work.
 

Jettj45

Monkey
Oct 20, 2005
670
3
Butthole of NC
Nobody out there disputes interval training and sprint training is good for DH/4X. What James is on here always preaching is aerobic training has not point other than the two he makes in his statement. He claims aerobic work will only make you a slower if you do it. Which goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed.

Yes you do the bulk of your training in a specific manner, for DH is that is developing power and the ability to do repeated max or just submaxial efforts many times over a 3-6 min in general time span. Just for the record I'd also question any coach that said DH racer should only spend hours and hours and hour riding slow.

The point is he's taking things to an extreme to make himself sound like the end all be all coach in DH.

If doing a large amount of aerobic training was that damaging those guys you see sprinting on the road wouldn't be able to put out the power they do. Cipo/Boonen/Petacchi and the like wouldn't be able to put out anywhere near the power they do. They spend 4-6 hours on the bike riding most of the year. Even the purest sprinters in the sport the guys on the velodrome racing match sprints do base work.
Well in a sense it is damaging in the fact that 30 min of interval training is better than like 90 min of aerobic. It's damaging in the sense of having the most efficient workout for a specific sport.
 

bikejames

Chimp
Oct 13, 2006
90
0
Nobody out there disputes interval training and sprint training is good for DH/4X. What James is on here always preaching is aerobic training has not point other than the two he makes in his statement. He claims aerobic work will only make you a slower if you do it. Which goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed.

Yes you do the bulk of your training in a specific manner, for DH is that is developing power and the ability to do repeated max or just submaxial efforts many times over a 3-6 min in general time span. Just for the record I'd also question any coach that said DH racer should only spend hours and hours and hour riding slow.

The point is he's taking things to an extreme to make himself sound like the end all be all coach in DH.

If doing a large amount of aerobic training was that damaging those guys you see sprinting on the road wouldn't be able to put out the power they do. Cipo/Boonen/Petacchi and the like wouldn't be able to put out anywhere near the power they do. They spend 4-6 hours on the bike riding most of the year. Even the purest sprinters in the sport the guys on the velodrome racing match sprints do base work.
Here you go, hopefully you are not accusing me of making up those studies…

TABATA STUDY ABSTRACT

Effects of moderate-intensity endurance and high-intensity intermittent training on anaerobic capacity and VO2max.

Tabata I, Nishimura K, Kouzaki M, Hirai Y, Ogita F, Miyachi M, Yamamoto K.

Department of Physiology and Biomechanics, National Institute of Fitness and Sports, Kagoshima Prefecture, Japan.

This study consists of two training experiments using a mechanically braked cycle ergometer. First, the effect of 6 wk of moderate-intensity endurance training (intensity: 70% of maximal oxygen uptake (VO2max), 60 min.d-1, 5 d.wk-1) on the anaerobic capacity (the maximal accumulated oxygen deficit) and VO2max was evaluated. After the training, the anaerobic capacity did not increase significantly (P > 0.10), while VO2max increased from 53 +/- 5 ml.kg-1 min-1 to 58 +/- 3 ml.kg-1.min-1 (P < 0.01) (mean +/- SD). Second, to quantify the effect of high-intensity intermittent training on energy release, seven subjects performed an intermittent training exercise 5 d.wk-1 for 6 wk. The exhaustive intermittent training consisted of seven to eight sets of 20-s exercise at an intensity of about 170% of VO2max with a 10-s rest between each bout. After the training period, VO2max increased by 7 ml.kg-1.min-1, while the anaerobic capacity increased by 28%. In conclusion, this study showed that moderate-intensity aerobic training that improves the maximal aerobic power does not change anaerobic capacity and that adequate high-intensity intermittent training may improve both anaerobic and aerobic energy supplying systems significantly, probably through imposing intensive stimuli on both systems.

You can view the abstract here:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=8897392&query_hl=3&itool=pubmed_DocSum

Let me translate this…the aerobic group showed no increase in anaerobic capacity and an increase of 5 ml.kg in their VO2Max. The interval group showed an increase of 28% in anaerobic capacity and a 7 ml.kg increase in aerobic capacity. For those scoring at home 7 is more than 5. Also, for the record this protocol has been used with great success by the Japanese Speed Skating Team.

Here is the Gibala study’s link:

Full text: http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/full/575/3/901?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=gibala&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

Abstract:
http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/abstract/575/3/901?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=gibala&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT

While I was there I actually found another study by him:

Abstract:
http://jp.physoc.org/cgi/content/abstract/586/1/151?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&author1=gibala&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT
(You have to pay for the full text of the study)

To say that this concept “goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed” shows your serious lack of training knowledge. Charlie Francis (considered by many to be one of the greatest track sprint coaches of all time) was preaching about the evils of aerobic base training 2 decades ago. Read his book Speed Trap and you’ll see this is neither new nor “goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed”.

Mike Boyle, Alwyn Cosgrove, Chalres Staley, Charlie Francis and many, many other progressive strength coaches adhere to this concept. Just because you do not run in progressive strength training circles does not mean that this idea “goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed”. Just because something has been done a certain way in the past does not mean it is the only or best way.

Lastly, no one is saying that aerobic training will make you as weak as a wet noodle, simply that it will make you weaker and less powerful than interval training. There is no way that you can say with certainty that VeloDrome sprinters wouldn’t be even more powerful if they did not do as much aerobic base training so that argument is moot at best. A lot of times genetically gifted professional athletes, especially those in a sport infamous for Vitamin S(teroid) use, succeed despite their training, not because of it.

Zutroy, you and guys like you crack me up. You are this nameless, faceless guy taking shots at a guy who pays his bills by producing results. If I don’t deliver, I don’t pay my bills or eat since I offer everyone I work with or who buys one of my program a results guarantee. So far I’ve never had to refund anyone’s money.

You are nothing more than an arm chair strength coach with extremely limited “in-the-trenches” experience with athletes and yet feel you can take shots at me. Produce some results, get some testimonials from riders around the world and then we can talk.
 

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
bla bla bla.......
taking shots at a guy who pays his bills by producing results. bla bla bla....
What world cup winning riders (races or championships) and world champions have you produced? Because I checked your site and I saw nobody that has ever won a major event or title.
Just asking.
 

ire

Turbo Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
6,196
4
What world cup winning riders (races or championships) and world champions have you produced? Because I checked your site and I saw nobody that has ever won a major event or title.
Just asking.
He came close in one of the old man categories:

Gene Hamilton
UCI World Masters Championship Silver and Bronze Medalist
 

Zutroy

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
2,443
0
Ventura,CA
So what you're saying is that speed athletes should spend most of there time training speed? Wow that's earth shattering.......no one else on this planet thought of that concept.

You never said aerobic training would make a weak noodle?

10-18-06 to quote you...and i'm not even going to touch your lack of understanding of biochem-

"First, you will loose muscle mass and the muscle that you have will become weaker and less powerful. Aerobic exercised by nature is catabolic and it burns muscle as well as fat. Any lose of muscle mass is a step backwards for us as this muscle mass is what we need to power our efforts. On top of this, science has shown that when exposed to low intensity, endurance based activities some of your precious fast twitch muscle fibers (the ones we need the most) will &#8220;shift&#8221; and start to act like slow twitch muscle fibers. Aerobics will effectively rob you of some of your most important asset on the DH/ 4X course &#8211; strong, powerful muscles.

Second, your body will adapt by becoming more metabolically efficient at aerobic exercise, mainly by becoming more efficient at burning fat for fuel. DH/ 4X racing is not aerobic by nature, it is anaerobic by nature. This means that we do not want to be efficient at burning fat for fuel; we want to be efficient at replenishing ATP, burning glycogen (muscle sugar) and clearing out the metabolic byproducts of this process, also known as anaerobic endurance. This is our limiting factor as DH/ 4X athletes, not our ability to use fat for fuel. Strengthening your aerobic metabolism will not help strengthen our anaerobic metabolism, making time spent in this effort misguided."

Did you even really read the the Gibala study all the way to the end

Perspective: limitations and implications of the present work

"The adaptive response to physical training is obviously influenced by a multitude of complex molecular, cellular and physiological changes, and the present data should not be interpreted to suggest that SIT is necessarily adequate preparation for prolonged endurance-type activities. The duration of the training program in the present study was relatively short (6 sessions over 2 weeks) and it remains to be determined whether similar adaptations are manifest after many weeks or months of interval and continuous training. It is possible that the time course for physiological adjustments differs between training protocols; the very intense nature of the SIT protocol may stimulate rapid changes, whereas the adaptations induced by lower intensity ET may occur more slowly. The present study examined only a few specific muscle parameters, and future studies should examine whether low volume SIT induces other physiological adjustments typically associated with high volume ET (e.g. increased maximal capacity for lipid oxidation, improvements in cardiorespiratory function, changes in blood health status markers, potential for weight loss, etc.)"

Let me translate this for you-Since it was such a short study, they can't say in the long term it's any better.

Also all the studies you listed are using untrained subjects, not exactly great support.

And yeah 7 is bigger than 5, to bad neither were statistically significant...which means they're the same.

So lets get get to your other support....Charlie Francis...you mean the great Charlie Francis who coached Ben Johnson, Tim Montgomery, and Marion Jones....hmmmmmm what do they all have in common...the same guy that's banned for life from Canada athletics...cause he's the one that gave Johnson the juice....that's some strong support there buddy.

As far as the nameless faceless thing...there are more than a few people on here who know who i am. Just because i don't use this an advertising doesn't mean I'm hiding.

What's funny is how much you toot you're own horn about how good you are.
 

maddogdh

Monkey
Aug 16, 2005
177
0
Highland Lakes, NJ
I may sound like a fool and I guess I do everything all wrong because....... I Cardio kickbox like a madman which is hardcore interval training I lift weights like a madman and I long distance run. So do they all contradict each other I dont know and dont care, I feel feel fast and strong and healthy and look pretty damn good also. Fitness is a lifestyle do what feels right if it works it works. I need to hit the bong,get my allbuteral and grag a "Bacanator" and a 5 piece nugget.
 

SK6

Turbo Monkey
Jul 10, 2001
7,586
0
Shut up and ride...
Well then damn it.....it's just ALL downhill from here then isn't it? We're all DOOMED!!!! OMG!!!!! :panic:

or 2nd response:

Well then, I have nothing to worry about other than wasting my own time, which, unless your my wife, ain't none-yo-biness.

3rd response..

Heart attack, here I come!


I call :spam:

:D
 

ztlh13

Monkey
May 9, 2003
276
0
East Tennessee
I think you guys just want him to be wrong so you have a reason to justify not torturing yourselves next time you&#8217;re prepping for race. :busted:
If you think interval training done properly is easy you are way off.

In regards to interval training being purely anaerobic you are off the mark! For intervals to be effectively employed into a training program there is an active recovery period of aerobic exercise needed. The higher the intensity the longer active recovery aerobic exercise you do by ratio.

If you did not actively recover you do not teach the body to remove by-products efficiently which leaves you unable to repeat the intesity.

What you wrote is not exactly what the authors in a closed study were trying to convey. Also this contradicts all the great minds at the USOC and the National Strength and Conditioning Association. I would recommend furthering your physiological education to be more capable of discerning the information you're reading.

BTW, this is coming from a masters prepared Kinesiologist who studied under Dr. Micheal Stone (ex-director for Strength and Power training at the USOC)

Basically, beware not all you read is good! And having a heart attack at 50 b/c aerobic exercise is not important could affect your DH career!
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
What James is on here always preaching is aerobic training has not point other than the two he makes in his statement. He claims aerobic work will only make you a slower if you do it. Which goes against all the coaching wisdom in sports that involve speed.
I'll buy the fact that you want to get as fast, and as much explosive power during that 3-6min race run as possible.

*however*

most of us mere mortals need to ride a course extensively in order to learn it (I've heard Sam just needs to look at a ski map with the race course drawn in Sharpie before his race run), and then usually end up going off and freeriding with friends the rest of the day. we get drunk the night before the race, chug a couple of redbulls in the morning, and completely eat sh!t trying some ninja-pro-line that Lars or Muffin told us about during the previously mentioned night of heavy drinking.

:monkeydance:
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Actually I just want him to quit spamming his sh1t all over this site and buy an ad like a real advertiser.
Down boy. If we were to hate on Spammers, then Spomer and Fraser would get the boot from this site years ago. No one whines when they, Sicklines and every race promoter drops their event/event coverage/team info/team frame pics/ etc on here. You're barking up the wrong tree.

James has every right to post his spam on here as they do. At least he's not running around locking threads that don't fit his views of what a religion should or shouldn't be like a certain elf we know.

Everybody needs to take his info with a grain of salt:
1. His personality is not typed words. Translating one's good intentions through text is sketch at best.
2. He's just saying cranking out 1, 2, 3 hours of aerobics just burns calories and doesn't increase your performance.
3. His advise is focused on MAXIMUM intensity training for Elite level athletes. Pro training is NEVER fun....know any lineman that look forward to hitting the sled?? The training regimen he would assign an athlete to achieve maximum results in lots and lots of suffering...something most guys on the net want nothing to do with.
4. He's just saying that for DH if you want max results in minimal time...do intervals, nothing fun.


Allt he stuff he speaks about is not FUN..which is why most people ride their bikes. But for elite athletes wanting to be first overall, they gotta put themselves through torture, pain and punishment to get better. If you don't want to win...don't listen to a trainer.

Also, I know of a few pros who put in all that stupid base training and go on long road rides and their fitness and body fat might be nice and the veins in their legs impressive...but they're getting beat by someone putting in the real work. Sure, their natural handling and talent make up for some of it...but not all of it.

Fonzie's sent me info on the type of training Sam Hill was putting in the last 2 years and he guaranteed me the guy was being an absolute animal when training. Hard, hard work.

I remember Herndon telling me about the Devo team out training with Stephan Girard and making them go on some brutally long road ride and then having to do intervals in the middle of it. Modern sport science for DH would dictate the hour getting to and getting back from the intervals...was wasted. Girard had the XC contingent with them too...so who wasted who's time?
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
.... and completely eat sh!t trying some ninja-pro-line that Lars ....told us about during the previously mentioned night of heavy drinking.

:monkeydance:
yeah...just following him on a fun run after the race at Snowshoe 2 years ago on a trail he'd never ridden and trying to do some of his ninja lines almost made me a donor. :D
 

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
I remember Herndon telling me about the Devo team out training with Stephan Girard and making them go on some brutally long road ride and then having to do intervals in the middle of it. Modern sport science for DH would dictate the hour getting to and getting back from the intervals...was wasted. Girard had the XC contingent with them too...so who wasted who's time?
Ya, Stephane's current and former client list does not have any World Champions or World Cup champions.
:shocked:
 

DH Diva

Wonderwoman
Jun 12, 2002
1,808
1
My life goal, is to create a downhill race based on the Thunderdome Contests of the Mad Max era. Riders will be armed with chains and maces. Bears and lions will be on the course, as will land mines. Spectators will throw fire ants at you. If you survive the course and eliminate your competitors, Richard Simmons will be at the finish line and will attempt to sodomize you. You must slay him with a toothbrush.

No, I am not fvkcing around with this one.
Master Blaster!! Two man enter, one man leave.

I like where you're going with this.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Down boy. If we were to hate on Spammers, then Spomer and Fraser would get the boot from this site years ago.
What is spomer selling?



I'm obviously the only who's annoyed by it but what I see is a guy who thinks he's come up with some successful, non-traditional training methods and wants this to be known. He also sells a book directly related to this, linked in his signature.


Spomer and Fraser take part in discussions, know and ride with many people on this board, and address other things besides their business endeavors. This guy does nothing BUT start threads directly addressing his training methods which he SELLS as a program.

Sorry you can't see the difference.

It's still just a thread I can ignore with the free will that baby jeebus gave me so I'm not losing sleep over it or anyting. I just think that after an extended time of using discussion boards for advertising, you should support the site. Just like e.13 did once they could :D
 

Cant Climb

Turbo Monkey
May 9, 2004
2,683
10
What is spomer selling?



I'm obviously the only who's annoyed by it but what I see is a guy who thinks he's come up with some successful, non-traditional training methods and wants this to be known. He also sells a book directly related to this, linked in his signature.


Spomer and Fraser take part in discussions, know and ride with many people on this board, and address other things besides their business endeavors. This guy does nothing BUT start threads directly addressing his training methods which he SELLS as a program.

Sorry you can't see the difference.

It's still just a thread I can ignore with the free will that baby jeebus gave me so I'm not losing sleep over it or anyting. I just think that after an extended time of using discussion boards for advertising, you should support the site. Just like e.13 did once they could :D
Good points.

But this site is sorely lacking any good training info.....there's is not much out there to begin with (DH specific) , this guy does share his views and give people direction on how to train without buying his program....so it's not complete SPAM....so he doesn't post bling bike pics or rub the right nuts.....

Let me add: I would never pay a penny for his program....
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Good points.

But this site is sorely lacking any good training info.....there's is not much out there to begin with (DH specific) , this guy does share his views and give people direction on how to train without buying his program....so it's not complete SPAM....so he doesn't post bling bike pics or rub the right nuts.....

Let me add: I would never pay a penny for his program....
If I were in his shoes, here's how I'd approach it.


I'd find the most attractive female downhiller in my area. Get her to post up some riding pics for about a week or two and get all the little racerbois looking at her hienie.

Then once her username gets known, get HER to start talking about this great training program that her and her man have been using. No affiliation, just a happy customer spreading some knowledge.

Not only would it be more credible because it's not coming from the source, you'd be assured some attention because everyone would be checking her thread for more tanktop pics.
That's just me though:D
 

beaverbiker

Monkey
Feb 5, 2003
586
0
Santa Clara
some people take bike riding way too seriously. like many others, I'd rather just ride. my intervals come when i'm sprinting from corner to corner, trying to stay in front of my buddy.