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Warning to future intense M6 owners!!

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Dwdrums00

Monkey
Mar 31, 2007
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Here is the deal. My buddy and I have had our M6's for almost three weeks now. We noticed at full travel that the rear tire hits the frame (maxxis 2.5 highroller that is pretty bald) on our bikes. After many different tuning adjustments, we talked to intense about the issue. They told us that the tire does in fact hit the frame at full travel . They say this is due to the tight geometry that was accomplish while designing the bike. I guess that is why my BB height is a half I inch lower than advertised (13.34" BB height.) I wish I would have known this before buying the bike. This is my third intense bike and I have never had such an issue in the past. So just thought i would give the future M6 owners a heads up.





MOD EDIT: See this post on the last page of this thread for the official solution to this problem from intense.
 
sriracha

sriracha

Monkey
Jun 9, 2006
496
0
805
what's wrong with a little bit of tire rub???

it's not like you ride around all day long with the suspension bottomed out.
 
dan wask

dan wask

Turbo Monkey
May 11, 2006
1,463
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B-More Maryland
Tire rub isn't really all that big of a deal. A look at the underside of the rear fender on most motocross bikes will reveal some nice thick streaks of rubber left from tire rub.
 
G

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
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The 802
Dwdrums00 said:
Here is the deal. My buddy and I have had our M6's for almost three weeks now. We noticed at full travel that the rear tire hits the frame (maxxis 2.5 highroller that is pretty bald) on our bikes. After many different tuning adjustments, we talked to intense about the issue. They told us that the tire does in fact hit the frame at full travel . They say this is due to the tight geometry that was accomplish while designing the bike. I guess that is why my BB height is a half I inch lower than advertised (13.34" BB height.) I wish I would have known this before buying the bike. This is my third intense bike and I have never had such an issue in the past. So just thought i would give the future M6 owners a heads up.
Click to expand...
while the rubbing should have no negative impact on performance, if you really want to do something about it you could always fit some sort of spacer behind the bottom out bumper. A Boxxer preload spacer would probably do just the trick. if you cut it into a 'C' shape with an opening just smaller than the diameter of he shock shaft it should go right on and hold itself in place, or just dab a bit of super glue on the back of the bumper it you like.


Rye_Bread said:
thats some bull****
Click to expand...
Somehow I feel Kovarik is not likely to agree with you. If people want geometry identical to what the best pros run they are going to have to learn to live with the result.
 
D

Dwdrums00

Monkey
Mar 31, 2007
224
0
General Lee said:
while the rubbing should have no negative impact on performance, if you really want to do something about it you could always fit some sort of spacer behind the bottom out bumper. A Boxxer preload spacer would probably do just the trick. if you cut it into a 'C' shape with an opening just smaller than the diameter of he shock shaft it should go right on and hold itself in place, or just dab a bit of super glue on the back of the bumper it you like.
Click to expand...
I am going to try an fit a second bottom bumper on the shock shaft. If that doesn't solve the problem, I am going to give your idea a try. Thanks
 
Curious_George

Curious_George

Monkey
Oct 14, 2007
394
0
dan wask said:
Tire rub isn't really all that big of a deal. A look at the underside of the rear fender on most motocross bikes will reveal some nice thick streaks of rubber left from tire rub.
Click to expand...
When you "Know" its there...it can't get f*ing annoying since that all you seem to hear
 
G

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
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The 802
Dwdrums00 said:
I am going to try an fit a second bottom bumper on the shock shaft. If that doesn't solve the problem, I am going to give your idea a try. Thanks
Click to expand...
a second bumper is likely to be overkill, remember with the leverage ratio anything you use will be magnified in size at the rear wheel.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
Aug 25, 2003
42,146
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Squirtin ketchup n' mustard on charred flesh
General Lee said:
Somehow I feel Kovarik is not likely to agree with you.
Click to expand...


great point!


Tell me again why someone should care about what some pro who gets free frames says about a company that's supported him forever?


Spending 3 grand on a frame and expecting it to cover the basics (like not hitting the frame with a tire) isn't unreasonable.....regardless of who rides for them. If they want the chainstay measurements, then move the seat tube. If they want the seat tube where it is, move the rear axle. Every other frame maker can manage this. Somehow I doubt there's a very specific seat tube placement that's vital to a dh bike's performance.

Dwdrums: You running a dhx? Look for someone with a spec demo 7. More than likely they took out the spacer that was put on those things stock to limit the travel. It's a lot less restrictive than an entire bumper.
 
jefedelosjefes

jefedelosjefes

Monkey
Dec 3, 2004
152
0
San Jose, CA
Sounds like their engineers screwed up on that one. They will probably try to play it off like it is a feature. Like when rocky mountain claimed that flex in the swingarm of the RMX helped it "carve" corners. Problems like that are expected in prototypes, but customers should never see a product like that
 
Ian Collins

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
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Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
kidwoo said:
great point!


Tell me again why someone should care about what some pro who gets free frames says about a company that's supported him forever?


Spending 3 grand on a frame and expecting it to cover the basics (like not hitting the frame with a tire) isn't unreasonable.....regardless of who rides for them. If they want the chainstay measurements, then move the seat tube. If they want the seat tube where it is, move the rear axle. Every other frame maker can manage this. Somehow I doubt there's a very specific seat tube placement that's vital to a dh bike's performance.

Dwdrums: You running a dhx? Look for someone with a spec demo 7. More than likely they took out the spacer that was put on those things stock to limit the travel. It's a lot less restrictive than an entire bumper.
Click to expand...
an easy fix for this(if intense is smart) is they could re-machine some new rear dropouts(to adjust axle positioning) and just mail them out to people who already have the bikes, and install them on the other bikes....should be easy seeing how they do everything in house.....for some reason i'm willing to be they'll F it up......
 
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Dwdrums00

Monkey
Mar 31, 2007
224
0
Kidwoo: I am running a CCDB and I also have the revox it came with. I have been testing out both of them.
 
kidwoo

kidwoo

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Aug 25, 2003
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Ian Collins said:
an easy fix for this(if intense is smart) is they could re-machine some new rear dropouts(to adjust axle positioning) and just mail them out to people who already have the bikes, and install them on the other bikes....should be easy seeing how they do everything in house.....for some reason i'm willing to be they'll F it up......
Click to expand...
An easy solution would be to go out and ride the damn things before they sell them :D

Small M1s did the same thing. I had a buddy get back at least one (maybe two) front triangles when he brought this up. Nothing changed.

To intense's credit, he did end up with an m3 either for free or a pretty small 'upgrade' charge eventually. But he was riding a pretty clapped out sounding bike for a while before this happened.


Dwdrum: see if you can find out the shaft diameter (just grab some calipers) of the shock you decide you want to use. The one off the demo 7s might fit or be made to fit if your shock shaft is larger.
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Somebody please explaint o me why its completely forgivable that Intense can put out a frame that bottoms the wheel out on itself, but when Azonic did it they are called a crap company with no engineers?
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

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Aug 8, 2005
14,437
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I am not fond of any bike that allows the rear wheel to contact the frame. I know alot of people say it isnt that big of a deal, But If I am going to spend 3K for a frame, it damn well better not have issues such as this. Of coarse I am not saying that the M6 is a bad bike, its just a race bike, not an everyday rider. Remember eventually that tire contact is going to wear a hole in the seat tube. Maybe not at first, but it will have a shorter life than a bike that doesnt deal with this issue
 
G

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
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The 802
DirtyMike said:
I am not fond of any bike that allows the rear wheel to contact the frame. I know alot of people say it isnt that big of a deal, But If I am going to spend 3K for a frame, it damn well better not have issues such as this. Of coarse I am not saying that the M6 is a bad bike, its just a race bike, not an everyday rider. Remember eventually that tire contact is going to wear a hole in the seat tube. Maybe not at first, but it will have a shorter life than a bike that doesnt deal with this issue
Click to expand...

Even Kenda tires can't go through aluminum, and even if they could it's doubtful the contact is that profound anyway.

what i'd really like to see is a pic of an m3 fully compressed with the spring removed so we can see just how much contact we're talking about here.
 
B

Boxxer

Monkey
Jul 18, 2005
856
2
Dirty South
If its significant contact and done often enough, a tire could eat through aluminum surprisingly fast. Bottom out spacers on the shock shaft seem like the cheap fix-it-now solution.
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
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General Lee said:
Even Kenda tires can't go through aluminum, and even if they could it's doubtful the contact is that profound anyway.

what i'd really like to see is a pic of an m6 fully compressed with the spring removed so we can see just how much contact we're talking about here.
Click to expand...
Close ups on the shock in that state as well. It would be good to see how close the tire is and how compressed the shock bumper is

Oh and on wearing through, sory Ive seen it before on swingarms with and seatubes before on other bikes. Not something that happens over night, but it does cause a problem. It make be nominal but still, not something I am comfortable with
 
altix

altix

Monkey
Feb 14, 2007
407
0
its not worse than the 06 v10s rear fender ripping off the first bottom out. although mine hasn't broken off yet...I'v seen many that have

also:picsstfu:
 
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Pockets-o-Grey

Chimp
Dec 11, 2007
43
0
thats crazy.... glad i didnt go the way of the m6... might just be too early into devolpment. i wonder though what would happen when fully bottomed going at some speed or landing a somewhat flat drop... do u think the sudden impact of tire to frame would just buck the rider? ie kyle strait at crankworks. Perhaps it really is a for race only frame... like 20 days of riding max before that tire cuts through frame?
 
J

jamesdc

Monkey
May 6, 2007
469
0
Most of the bikes I have owned including my current bike the tire contacts the seat tube at the end of the travel. It wears away the paint but I dont think it will wear away the frame for along time. You dont even notice when it contacts the frame.
 
bdamschen

bdamschen

Turbo Monkey
Nov 28, 2005
3,377
156
Spreckels, CA
My girlfriend's hollowpoint mtx had some tire clearance issues down by the chainstays and the previous owner ran tires that were a bit too large; there is a signifigant ammount of the frame worn away there. Tires will eat metal.
 
Kanye West

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
James people notice when you ride by and it sounds like you just ripped @ss.

A tire on a nice slow bottom out spinning at WC speeds is MORE than capable of eating away at aluminum, especially if it's the usual spec'ed thin tubing that Intense uses. If it's hitting a bald 2.5" High Roller, anything more substantial will do some pretty bad stuff to it. Totally unacceptable for a $3k+ production frame to have clearance issues that there are such simple solutions for (tweak the seat tube position/angle so the seat ends up in the same place - not that damned hard).
 
S

Santa Maria

Monkey
Aug 29, 2007
653
0
Austria
Dwdrums00 said:
Here is the deal. My buddy and I have had our M6's for almost three weeks now. We noticed at full travel that the rear tire hits the frame (maxxis 2.5 highroller that is pretty bald) on our bikes. After many different tuning adjustments, we talked to intense about the issue. They told us that the tire does in fact hit the frame at full travel . They say this is due to the tight geometry that was accomplish while designing the bike. I guess that is why my BB height is a half I inch lower than advertised (13.34" BB height.) I wish I would have known this before buying the bike. This is my third intense bike and I have never had such an issue in the past. So just thought i would give the future M6 owners a heads up.
Click to expand...
a high end frame at this price range should not have such issues
 
E

Eurotrash

Monkey
Mar 2, 2002
362
0
I don't see it as too big of a problem compared to 06 V10 to links that rubbed against the frame and self destructed and current giant glory whose rear triangle hits the main frame on bottom out. Both these bikes have metal to metal contact on bottom out, I would take rubber to metal over that any day.
 
F

FreeRide-Junkie

Monkey
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
Eurotrash said:
I don't see it as too big of a problem compared to 06 V10 to links that rubbed against the frame and self destructed and current giant glory whose rear triangle hits the main frame on bottom out. Both these bikes have metal to metal contact on bottom out, I would take rubber to metal over that any day.
Click to expand...
Ok.... so the lesser of two evils. Neither should happen though.
 
Eren

Eren

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2006
2,874
0
mill creek, WA (now in Surrey UK)
Pockets-o-Grey said:
thats crazy.... glad i didnt go the way of the m6... might just be too early into devolpment. i wonder though what would happen when fully bottomed going at some speed or landing a somewhat flat drop... do u think the sudden impact of tire to frame would just buck the rider? ie kyle strait at crankworks. Perhaps it really is a for race only frame... like 20 days of riding max before that tire cuts through frame?
Click to expand...
are you serious? 20 days on a frame. no company would put out a frame that lasts only 20 rides. FRO or not FRO they wouldnt do it. they know no one would buy them.

:lighten:

hope your not goin into business :biggrin:
 
E

Eurotrash

Monkey
Mar 2, 2002
362
0
FreeRide-Junkie said:
Ok.... so the lesser of two evils. Neither should happen though.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. On the frame that some friends and I have designed, the software we used allowed us to see straight away if there would be any such problems. And now that the frames are beeing ridden there are no such problems.
But everyone seems to be jumping on Intense which is one of the smaller manufacturers out there, who have probably been working hard to get their frame out in time. Remember when the M3 was launched, they had a whole year where no M1s were made and the M3 wasn't out yet? I bet they didn't want to do that again.

Look at the example I mentioned: Giant is the biggest bike manufacturer in the world they make 9M bikes/year, the glory is in its third year of production and the problem still hasn't been fixed and never will be as there will be a new one coming out soon.(not a huge problem and the glory is one of the best bikes out there but still not excuseable)

I think people on here need to take a small step back. You have to balance the bling factor of having a new ride that very few people will have and the fact that you are goin to be guiney pigging especially when you buy something from a small manufacturer. I know I wouldn't buy a first generation fork from any of the top manufacturers.

Just my thoughts
 
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