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Product Ideas?

ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
So first off, Im shop manager for a very well equipped machine shop. well we lost our largest account because they decided to buy a machine shop so all their products are "in house". Well now the owner is freaking out that we're going to run out of work, so I threw out the idea of starting our own product line. So of course my idea is bike parts lol. So basically my question for you guys is, what would you like to see in a new line of machined bike parts? We want to stay away from parts of the market that are flooded, like stems pedals, etc. We need something that will stand out. Im thinking a completely machined inverted front fork(think showa or kowa). Forks are so over priced its rediculous. We could easily put out a fork like the showa's or kowa's for under $1k. What else should i be looking at as a viable product?
 
jvnixon

jvnixon

Turbo Monkey
May 14, 2006
2,325
0
SickLines.com
My top two would probably be:
Cheap fork crown (boxxer flat crown, fox40 crown w/boxxer integrated stem mounts, etc)
Dropouts (& headsetup cups) to alter geo on bikes as well as make maxle compatable ones.

As far as forks.. not sure
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,092
New dropouts for Intense frames to lower the BB and slacken out the Uzzi and Socom. Also normal dropouts with standard Intense specs but not priced 250 $/pair. And of course 135/150 mm, 12 mm and Maxle axle options for all of them. :busted:
 
SPINTECK

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
shock springs, especially titanium seem hard to get. Plus you may be able to cross the shock spring manufacturing over to motocross.

you're probably better off making diamond plate and other accessories for trucks. That stuff sells well, has huge mark-up and people's values allow them to sink thousands into their truck w/out thinking twice.
 
ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
The crown and D.O. ideas are good. thanks guys.


SPINTECK said:
shock springs, especially titanium seem hard to get. Plus you may be able to cross the shock spring manufacturing over to motocross.

you're probably better off making diamond plate and other accessories for trucks. That stuff sells well, has huge mark-up and people's values allow them to sink thousands into their truck w/out thinking twice.
Click to expand...
When you show me an economical way to machine a spring I'll consider it lol. J/K. We're a machine shop, not a fab shop. Thanks for the idea though!
 
FOXROX

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,120
0
hambur,nj
i think people are more worried about a cool looking bike then a good performing bike... i say go more on a fashion side... like anodized linkages,fork crowns,bolts,shock hardware,brake adapters etc, but it might get expensive because a lot of stuff needs hardening
 
FOXROX

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,120
0
hambur,nj
and/or make an online store like beyond bike and rip people off! :P but seriously make an online store... i hardly ever go to my shop anymore..... low prices and people will come
 
P.T.W

P.T.W

Monkey
May 6, 2007
599
0
christchurch nz
FOXROX said:
i think people are more worried about a cool looking bike then a good performing bike... i say go more on a fashion side... like anodized linkages,fork crowns,bolts,shock hardware,brake adapters etc, but it might get expensive because a lot of stuff needs hardening
Click to expand...
hardening???????:crazy:
 
buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
FOXROX said:
but it might get expensive because a lot of stuff needs hardening
Click to expand...
???? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you?

I did a round of floating brake adapters for the Super8 that sold very well. I also had good success with the fox 40 crowns. Find something that only has a few parts. The fork seems very ambitious. Especially considering you have zero brand recognition. You need to start with stuff under $200 and earn some brand respect.
If you guys have cheap lathe time, pedals wouldn't be a bad idea. Do a really nice machined ripoff of the atomlabs with no bearings. Sell them for $100.
 
FOXROX

FOXROX

Turbo Monkey
Jun 23, 2007
2,120
0
hambur,nj
buildyourown said:
???? You don't have any idea what you're talking about do you?

I did a round of floating brake adapters for the Super8 that sold very well. I also had good success with the fox 40 crowns. Find something that only has a few parts. The fork seems very ambitious. Especially considering you have zero brand recognition. You need to start with stuff under $200 and earn some brand respect.
If you guys have cheap lathe time, pedals wouldn't be a bad idea. Do a really nice machined ripoff of the atomlabs with no bearings. Sell them for $100.
Click to expand...

sorry i was thinking about steel
 
Inclag

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,752
442
MA
What country are you from (I only ask that because your typing sounds like broken english :) )?
What kind of company is the one that you work for more specifically? If this is exclusively a machine shop then you may want to do something aside from bike parts. Trust me, I work for a small engineering consulting/design firm and all of our engineers are and I use the term loosely, self taught "machinist". Although we've done some crazy parts (one of these days I'll post some pics) I have a pretty good idea of what the costs are for small run parts and making anything for cycling, especially in a niche market like DH, and well your boss is probably going to freak out more.

Does your company have engineering capabilities? If so your company really needs to start networking and making contacts to create new business and bring in some new purchase orders. What may start as a small job for a client could turn into a much larger relationship but you probably know that.

I'm saying this because if you and your coworkers livelihood depend on this company then you really shouldn't look at machined bike components as the solution especially considering that to make money in this industry (again especially in the niche of DH), you need to sell parts in high quantities and there are many other manufacturing techniques aside from machined parts that are cheaper and quicker. For a very small operation you may be able to make a good profit off some simple machined parts, but if there are more then just a couple people then you probably won't bring enough $$ to cover yourselves let alone overhead if you are dry on business. If you guys have other clients and bigger projects then making some simpler bike parts would be a pretty bad ass way of making cool fun parts that you could put a decent markup on.

If your company does have engineering capabilities or if you guys are willing to learn then I do have one suggestion that does involve cycling. You can PM me if you are interested since I don't want to discuss it here, but it is a device that in our research normally sells for $100K US. The company that I work for was able to engineer and manufacture one for $20K for a client but that is in part because sometimes we charge less than we should for our services (but hell any business is better than none, you probably know :) ).

Anyway heres a website for the company I work for http://www.datum3d.com/

I hope this helps and good luck, hopefully things can get sorted out with your job. And I forgot to ask but is your company a production machine shop?
 
ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
Inclag said:
What country are you from (I only ask that because your typing sounds like broken english :) )?
What kind of company is the one that you work for more specifically? If this is exclusively a machine shop then you may want to do something aside from bike parts. Trust me, I work for a small engineering consulting/design firm and all of our engineers are and I use the term loosely, self taught "machinist". Although we've done some crazy parts (one of these days I'll post some pics) I have a pretty good idea of what the costs are for small run parts and making anything for cycling, especially in a niche market like DH, and well your boss is probably going to freak out more.

Does your company have engineering capabilities? If so your company really needs to start networking and making contacts to create new business and bring in some new purchase orders. What may start as a small job for a client could turn into a much larger relationship but you probably know that.

I'm saying this because if you and your coworkers livelihood depend on this company then you really shouldn't look at machined bike components as the solution especially considering that to make money in this industry (again especially in the niche of DH), you need to sell parts in high quantities and there are many other manufacturing techniques aside from machined parts that are cheaper and quicker. For a very small operation you may be able to make a good profit off some simple machined parts, but if there are more then just a couple people then you probably won't bring enough $$ to cover yourselves let alone overhead if you are dry on business. If you guys have other clients and bigger projects then making some simpler bike parts would be a pretty bad ass way of making cool fun parts that you could put a decent markup on.

If your company does have engineering capabilities or if you guys are willing to learn then I do have one suggestion that does involve cycling. You can PM me if you are interested since I don't want to discuss it here, but it is a device that in our research normally sells for $100K US. The company that I work for was able to engineer and manufacture one for $20K for a client but that is in part because sometimes we charge less than we should for our services (but hell any business is better than none, you probably know :) ).

Anyway heres a website for the company I work for http://www.datum3d.com/

I hope this helps and good luck, hopefully things can get sorted out with your job. And I forgot to ask but is your company a production machine shop?
Click to expand...
Im from the states lol. Im usually trying to do multiple things while online(like right now), so I generally dont proof read what im typing. 1st off our livelyhood doesnt depend on this product line. We do have our paper pushers out picking up new accounts. these are just ideas we're throwing around for extra work, and about half the company are cycle nuts, so it seems like a natural addition. We still have some really good accouts like Benchmade knives, Precise Flight, Columbia helicopter, etc. We actually do a lot of designing and engineering for Benchmade. If we do start making parts for the cycle industry, small runs wont be a big deal after initial setup. Hell our Mazak horizontal alone can be setup and tooled for 8 different jobs at one time. From there I can just pay some highschool kid minimum wage to load material and push the go button. We ccurretly have 2 different shops. Our main shop is just full of HAAS vf2's and 3's, Bridgeports, Laguns, Hardinge lathes, etc for one off parts and small runs. Then across the street we have a production shop.
Btw, Thanks for your input. Its nice to here from people with a similar background.
 
Calid0wnhiller

Calid0wnhiller

Chimp
Jan 20, 2008
96
0
Santa Rosa
If you made After-market Boxxer flat crowns, you could make a fortune. As long as its less than $90(SRAM price) people will buy them, the tall crowns look rediculous. Also colored anodized crowns would be pimp!
 
Inclag

Inclag

Turbo Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
2,752
442
MA
ZenkiGarage said:
Im from the states lol. Im usually trying to do multiple things while online(like right now), so I generally dont proof read what im typing. 1st off our livelyhood doesnt depend on this product line. We do have our paper pushers out picking up new accounts. these are just ideas we're throwing around for extra work, and about half the company are cycle nuts, so it seems like a natural addition. We still have some really good accouts like Benchmade knives, Precise Flight, Columbia helicopter, etc. We actually do a lot of designing and engineering for Benchmade. If we do start making parts for the cycle industry, small runs wont be a big deal after initial setup. Hell our Mazak horizontal alone can be setup and tooled for 8 different jobs at one time. From there I can just pay some highschool kid minimum wage to load material and push the go button. We ccurretly have 2 different shops. Our main shop is just full of HAAS vf2's and 3's, Bridgeports, Laguns, Hardinge lathes, etc for one off parts and small runs. Then across the street we have a production shop.
Btw, Thanks for your input. Its nice to here from people with a similar background.
Click to expand...
Haha, at least you can multi-task. It'll take me 30 minutes to type up a two sentence post if I'm using the Windows calculator at the same time :bonk:.

I suppose I grossly misinterpreted your first posts then, but it sounds like if your all cycle nuts then hell go for it! Most everything on bike is really pretty simple stuff. I'm with buildyourown that a fork may be a bit much of an undertaking.

BTW I'm jealous of those machining centers. I wish I had a 5% of the skills that a professional machinists has!
 
ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
Inclag said:
I wish I had a 5% of the skills that a professional machinists has!
Click to expand...
Yeah, the skills are really nice to have. Unfortunatly for the skills needed, the pay isnt very good. Im lucky enough to have moved up to managment but we have guys on our floor with rediculous talent, years of experience and are only making $23-27/hr and came to us cause we were paying more then the other shops(in our area). In this industry to make it big, you need to be on the engineering side of things or a shop owner.
 
K

klunky

Turbo Monkey
Oct 17, 2003
1,078
6
Scotland
Upgraded brake levers that dont stupid money would be nice
Fox upper crown with direct mounts
pedals with low profile and bearings that dont cost stupid money

I dont think that this would be the correct market for you to enter to try and drum up money after loosing a large contract. For making a little extra on the side then sure - go for it.
 
RideRMB

RideRMB

Monkey
Aug 29, 2007
394
0
'Da Hood
Well if you could make a fork how about one that matches the CCDB? High Sp/ Low Sp compression and Hi/ Lo rebound. Don't know if it's possible but it would be sick!
 
bpatterson6

bpatterson6

Turbo Monkey
Jul 1, 2004
1,049
0
Colorado
iRider said:
New dropouts for Intense frames to lower the BB and slacken out the Uzzi and Socom. Also normal dropouts with standard Intense specs but not priced 250 $/pair. And of course 135/150 mm, 12 mm and Maxle axle options for all of them. :busted:
Click to expand...
What he said. all of it! :crazy::lighten:
 
ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
Well im pushing the stem and crown idea at the shop. We're also looking into manufacturing an angular contact roller bearing headset. We'll see what happens.
 
OGRipper

OGRipper

back alley ripper
Feb 3, 2004
10,650
1,121
NORCAL is the hizzle
I would buy stronger-than-stock XO trigger replacement levers. I've broken three of the regular ones already and they are not always in stock at the distributors.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,061
5,970
borcester rhymes
Cranks...the crank market is way down from where it used to be. I have a Mountain Bike magazine somewhere that has a comparison of 30 some odd cranks in it. Awesome...so many pretty colors. I would start with XC and move up to DH, not vise versa, but DH might sell better, since so many people are bed wetters about their colors not matching. You could design it to fit somebody else's bottom bracket, then make it nice and stiff and shiny, or hollow, or whatever floats your boat.

Brake rotors are easy and cheap...start making a 9" kit that works well, complete with adapter and rotor. I'm in for one.

Hubs tend to be pretty easy, especially front ones. See if you can shed some weight from the current standards, people love light parts.

Lighter axles for common frames. You might be able to shed some weight from standard through axles front and rear.

Rims, if you can make them.

Custom cages for clip-in pedals. See if you can find a halfway decent clip-in pedal, then redesign a cage for it that offers lower weight and better grip.

Seat collars....cheap bling on a big bike.

Chainrings...same thing. People pick the most boring crap, I would think a decent looking chainring would get people buying.

I like the fork idea...but you'll really have to do it right the first time, since many people have figured out damping nowadays.

How about a linkage fork?
 
NY_Star

NY_Star

Turbo Monkey
Jun 10, 2007
1,046
0
10 Sq Mi Surrounded by well armed white men
I think it is best to forget the fork or rear shock idea if you don't want to put in at least a year in development and testing. Cobbing a fork for yourself is one thing but making one for production in WAY different. I would go for the crown/direct mt. stem combo Cranks are a very complicated part to make strong enough for Dh but still be light, because all it takes is one person putting pictures of your crank in two pieces but if they are not light then no one will buy them. I'm interested in the head set idea you had going on.
 
giantrider89

giantrider89

Monkey
Oct 16, 2006
423
1
P-town, MN
ive never done much research on fork crowns (cuz ive never wanted or needed to buy one before) but i was thinking maybe you could create a crown with a stem already integrated (complete integration).....

rather than having a integrated stem bolt on, just machine it right with the crown, so its all one piece......it could potentially save a few grams for the weight weenies, and also be really strong.....not that anyone really breaks stems anyway......

also, since there would be so many different combos of sizes (different brand/year forks, size of the clamp, and length of stem) they could be made to order, rather than trying to predict what is going to sell more or less.......


just a thought.......
 
W

WBC

Monkey
Aug 8, 2003
578
1
PNW
I'd like broader, flatter lever blades (like Hopes) that fit my shimano brakes. Ones without that stupid finger separator ridge like DB and Straitline. Cheap, simple, could care less about color or style
 
C

ChrisKring

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,399
6
Grand Haven, MI
Did you ever think about offering job shop services for the people that post all of their wacky ideas on Ridemonkey but have no way of machining them? Heck, even I have some ideas for parts that I want that I just don't have access to the equipment to produce them.
 
ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
Sandwich said:
How about a linkage fork?
Click to expand...
You know, ive actually had one designed for a few years now. Im actually a big fan of linkage and lever forks. The one i have designed for bicycles is a spin off of Valentino Ribi's design. The problem with linkage systems is people are always a weary of a new design and dont like to stray away from the norm. Like the Ribi system was by far much better than a telescopic fork. I cant remeber who but one of Hondas riders loved it so much they talked honda into buying the design from Ribi. they ran it on their works bikes for 2 years. it never reached production because of expense and because people were afraid of it. A properly designed linkage fork can almost totally eliminate fork dive which I dont think people realize but oh well, i wont rant about that lol.

Here is a picture of the ribi fork on a works '80 CR250.
*note: this was also the year of the twin cylinder CR that got banned before it even came to the states lol. Lets just say it was violently fast!
 
ZenkiGarage

ZenkiGarage

Monkey
Jan 9, 2007
341
0
Portland, Or
ChrisKring said:
Did you ever think about offering job shop services for the people that post all of their wacky ideas on Ridemonkey but have no way of machining them? Heck, even I have some ideas for parts that I want that I just don't have access to the equipment to produce them.
Click to expand...
You know thats a good idea. I might personally go that route for some extra income and for fun since i have a small machine shop setup in my garage. Production items, id like to have done from work.
 
SuspectDevice

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,160
365
Roanoke, VA
Kring has the right idea...
I'd buy 92mm bb shells (41mmx13mm deep ream) and 1.5-1.125 tapered headtubes all day.

Phil @ Superrat does a great job of covering short runs of things like drop chunks and yokes for folks like me, but a lot of small builders would appreciate someone with turning capacity.
http://superratmachine.com/ to check out that rad operation. (and those lustworthy as hell pedals!)
 
Zark

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
pedals with quick release bodies to facilitate quicker switches from clipless to flats ;)
 
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