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New Shimano Saint!

Huck Banzai

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
Logos are overstated and ugly IMO, and the gold bits are kind of 'too late' and ugly to boot (mostly). The adjuster on the lever is a breakage waiting to happen.

The derailleur and the brakes 'excite' me tho.
 
buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
I think they did a great job at building a true DH group. Sure, somethings are overkill for some riders, but most items aren't overly heavy either.
I love that they now make a true DH derailleur. Short cage, close ratio, shadow mount and low profile cable routing. Bravo.
 
bizutch

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Me likey. After riding a set of Diabolus cranks last year (a virtual twin in a sense to the Saint), I'm hooked on crank/BB combos like that. I like the look of the whole group. The gold pieces are a good way to catch the eye and show off subtle new mods and accent the existing shape of the group. Lots of details go unnoticed on solid grey components. The ano dial on my Codes wasn't exactly the sexiest color ever..but it did it's job.
 
Monkeybidnezz

Monkeybidnezz

Turbo Monkey
Dec 16, 2003
1,212
0
Pac NW
SinatorJ said:
Seems like the big S has stepped it up a little. I will be curious to see if SRAM has an offering specifically for the gravity set.
Click to expand...
Isn't that what the Holzfeller/Codes are for? Codes rock the house, but I really want to try the new 4 pots Saints now....
 
mattmatt86

mattmatt86

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2005
5,347
10
Bleedmore, Murderland
bizutch said:
After riding a set of Diabolus cranks last year (a virtual twin in a sense to the Saint), I'm hooked on crank/BB combos like that. I like the look of the whole group. The gold pieces are a good way to catch the eye and show off subtle new mods and accent the existing shape of the group. Lots of details go unnoticed on solid grey components. The ano dial on my Codes wasn't exactly the sexiest color ever..but it did it's job.
Click to expand...
That's the most sophisticated and intelligent post you've ever had.
 
toodles

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,502
4,751
Australia
Love the new Cranks. Ugly or not, they're rad. 4-pot caliper should be hot as too but the never brake lever sucks arse. How far can you put the pivot from bar? Will feel ****house IMO.
 
RideRMB

RideRMB

Monkey
Aug 29, 2007
394
0
'Da Hood
Like I posted on NSMB, I am very, very pissed they got rid of the bolt thru der., very very pissed. Dealing with hangers is a pain in the ass. I could also care less if it weighs less.
 
RaID

RaID

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,393
0
Not the real North Shore (Sydney), Aus
any idea if the new 4 pot calipers are using the same brake pads as the previous model?
are the servo levers compatible with the previous saint calipers?
im assuming the remaining hardware is the same between the new and current models?

i wouldnt mind streamlining my brake pads and any other spares between my 2 sets of
brakes
 
Dogboy

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,209
584
Durham, NC
RaID said:
are the servo levers compatible with the previous saint calipers?
Click to expand...
The current XT servo wave levers are compatible with Saint M800/XT M765 calipers, so the new Saint levers should work fine. I'll add that the new XT levers offer a noticeable improvement over the previous levers.
 
S

SpasticJack

Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
344
0
RaID said:
any idea if the new 4 pot calipers are using the same brake pads as the previous model?
are the servo levers compatible with the previous saint calipers?
im assuming the remaining hardware is the same between the new and current models?

i wouldnt mind streamlining my brake pads and any other spares between my 2 sets of
brakes
Click to expand...
I doubt it. Looks like the 4 pot pads load from below.
 
RaID

RaID

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,393
0
Not the real North Shore (Sydney), Aus
even if the pads arent compatible and the rest of the gear is these might be my new brakes for the DH and pass my current saints onto the hardtail.

I guess wait till stuff actually hits the shelves

I imagine the remaining hardware ie hose fittings etc will be same as current
 
*Pepe*

*Pepe*

Chimp
Mar 9, 2007
43
0
Vancouver, BC
- the hardware / hose fittings / etc. are unchanged
- all new levers work with all calipers so it's possible for run xtr levers with saint calipers, for example
- the pads load from below
 
JewBagel

JewBagel

Monkey
Apr 22, 2008
229
0
oregon
At least the rear derailleur looks sick, the logos and gold anno, just why? And center lock rotors, I know they will never let it go but I think it says something when no other companies adopt that style. I nearly **** my pants when I saw the price on a replacement saint center lock since they use a larger flange than the regular center locks.

Nice that they're going to 4 pots although I think the new Avid Elixir's already win. One last thing, why did they lengthen the paddles on the shifter? It was nice having them as short as possible and it should have stayed that way.
 
RaID

RaID

Turbo Monkey
Oct 27, 2001
1,393
0
Not the real North Shore (Sydney), Aus
JewBagel said:
At least the rear derailleur looks sick, the logos and gold anno, just why? And center lock rotors, I know they will never let it go but I think it says something when no other companies adopt that style. I nearly **** my pants when I saw the price on a replacement saint center lock since they use a larger flange than the regular center locks.
Click to expand...
yeh that was another great shimano invention 2 different centre lock standards that no-one uses

I know they are a better designed then a standard 6 bolt but theyre useless when no one implements them.
Unfrotunately im stuck with the centre locks on my Hugi FR hubs not that i want to change from shimano brakes
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
The biggest difference with the new Saints is that they use a Saint-only extra wide chainring mounting tab. The new Saint bashguard is recessed on the back to make clearance for this wide tab. What this means for DHers is that setting up a chain retention system that uses a bashguard will be difficult. (i.e. e.thirteen SRS, mrp system 3, raceface, blackspire, gamut etc...) The bashguard will now be spaced out farther from the chain than all other cranks on the market. Because of the direct mount bashguard design, LG1's work out quite well with the new Saint system. There were a few set up in the Shimano booth at the Otter on display.
 
zahgurim

zahgurim

Underwater monkey
Mar 9, 2005
1,100
12
lolAsia
...which means they = suck, if you want to run a bashguard.

Will e13 make Saint specific guards with recesses cut on the backside to accomodate the beefier tabs? :)
 
gonefirefightin

gonefirefightin

free wieners
Feb 5, 2007
11,249
4,922
Surrounded by Police in a hail of gunfire
I rode the new saint group on the athertons bikes, pretty darn snappy shifting compared to XO and the brakes are better than any avid or formula product Ihave felt.

I am curious about the hubs though, we will see how time tells with dependability, I never buy first year products.
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
dw said:
The biggest difference with the new Saints is that they use a Saint-only extra wide chainring mounting tab. The new Saint bashguard is recessed on the back to make clearance for this wide tab. What this means for DHers is that setting up a chain retention system that uses a bashguard will be difficult. (i.e. e.thirteen SRS, mrp system 3, raceface, blackspire, gamut etc...) The bashguard will now be spaced out farther from the chain than all other cranks on the market. Because of the direct mount bashguard design, LG1's work out quite well with the new Saint system. There were a few set up in the Shimano booth at the Otter on display.
Click to expand...
Only Shimano could f**k it up that simply... christ. Everything else about the new saint stuff looks soooooo good, then they go and do that. Twats.
 
Zark

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
dw said:
The biggest difference with the new Saints is that they use a Saint-only extra wide chainring mounting tab. The new Saint bashguard is recessed on the back to make clearance for this wide tab. What this means for DHers is that setting up a chain retention system that uses a bashguard will be difficult. (i.e. e.thirteen SRS, mrp system 3, raceface, blackspire, gamut etc...) The bashguard will now be spaced out farther from the chain than all other cranks on the market. Because of the direct mount bashguard design, LG1's work out quite well with the new Saint system. There were a few set up in the Shimano booth at the Otter on display.
Click to expand...

Great! A solution to a problem no one was having.....:plthumbsdown:
 
ska todd

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
Zark said:
Great! A solution to a problem no one was having.....:plthumbsdown:
Click to expand...
From my discussions with them, it related to seeing a fair amount of broken and bent chainring tabs on original Saint cranks and on competitors' product. I think a lot of people who run this crank will want to run either an LG.1 or a new type Mister Pee anyway, so I don't think it will be a huge deal.

I gather you could set-up a bashguard guide (SRS, System 1/2/3, Gamut, Race Face, etc) with the included stock Shimano bashguard. I saw the Shimano guys doing this on an M6 in their booth on Saturday. If there is demand, I'm sure everyone will make the appropriate changes to their product.

-ska todd
 
S

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
ska todd said:
From my discussions with them, it related to seeing a fair amount of broken and bent chainring tabs on original Saint cranks and on competitors' product. I think a lot of people who run this crank will want to run either an LG.1 or a new type Mister Pee anyway, so I don't think it will be a huge deal.

I gather you could set-up a bashguard guide (SRS, System 1/2/3, Gamut, Race Face, etc) with the included stock Shimano bashguard. I saw the Shimano guys doing this on an M6 in their booth on Saturday. If there is demand, I'm sure everyone will make the appropriate changes to their product.

-ska todd
Click to expand...

Sick, so they solved the tab bending problem by preventing you actually using them for mounting a bashy unless you happen to pay them for the privilege of using theirs. WTF shimano. And torx chainring bolts, you must be friggin joking... why oh f'ing why.
 
ska todd

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
Socket said:
Sick, so they solved the tab bending problem by preventing you actually using them for mounting a bashy unless you happen to pay them for the privilege of using theirs. WTF shimano. And torx chainring bolts, you must be friggin joking... why oh f'ing why.
Click to expand...
And if they didn't solve this issue yourself and others would be saying "WTF Shimano. This is a problem you knew about and didn't fix. Screw u I'm not buying these cranks." Damned if you do, damned if you don't! There are chainguides the work and other quick, painless ways around the problem. Suck it up princess!

-ska todd
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
jvnixon said:


Also note, t30 chainring bolts it looks like
Click to expand...
Michael from e.thirteen set this (exact bike) up for Shimano as a show only model. The new Saint bashguard has a 1.5mm step away from the chain on the inside surface. It definitely would not be ideal for chainguide use. (there is a 3mm-4mm gap between the inside of the saint bashguard and the outside of the top slider) In most cases it would be unusable. We've explained the situation to Shimano, and we will see what happens. They need to change the design to it work for chainguides that use the bashguard as a chain guiding surface. The guide setup in the picture is a show model only for the new Saint launch and will not be ridden.
 
D

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
For the record, I have NEVER seen a bent tab in all the years installing guides at race events. I've seen plenty of bent spiders, but never a bent tab itself. We (Shimano and I) discussed this specifically during their prototype process, apparently they have been seeing a failure mode that we have not. To each their own, I don't see a problem with a wider tab, as long as everyone adopts it it will be stiffer with virtually no weight gain and I like that. Now its up to others to follow Shimano's lead, or let the product flounder by not supporting it.
 
*Pepe*

*Pepe*

Chimp
Mar 9, 2007
43
0
Vancouver, BC
it's easier for the smaller (and arguably more nimble) guide companies to adapt to a specific crank design, than it is for a crank company to design a system that works universally with all chain guide systems.

what's next? asking all frame designers to make changes so that you can install any guide you want?

at the end of the day, it isn't a big deal to mod your guide to fit the crank (or a new frame detail, if it were the case). get over it.
 
WheelieMan

WheelieMan

Monkey
Feb 6, 2003
937
0
kol-uh-RAD-oh
toodles said:
4-pot caliper should be hot as too but the never brake lever sucks arse. How far can you put the pivot from bar? Will feel ****house IMO.
Click to expand...
I totally agree. First Hayes and now Shimano with this horrid lever geometry. I wouldn't even consider buying anything other than Avid at this point...
 
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