true yet u wouldnt have to casue u could run much lower tire pressure than him anyways. less tire pressure=more grip.:biggrin:
Tire Balls?
- Thread starter PDS RX
- Start date
well each individual ball has its own pressure in it usually u put about 28-34 balls in there or so i think im running 32 balls right now.
haha there really not that hard to put in i said once before that my dad put them in with a broken wrist in 5min
they weight the same as 4ply and xc tube so not much weight dif.
im 17 by the way thanks haha and i understand not everyone is going to love them people like what they like tireballs is not for everyone.
sorry to everyone that hates my spelling sorry that i dont care as long as u can read it its fine right! i mena were not perfect!
just because ur the spelling police and i spell a few things wrong doesnt mean im unintelligible. a few mistakes and ur going crazy man chill out. :biggrin:
thanks for standing up for me man!
More like 20.
But anyway nobody rides on everest.......I drive from about 7k to sea level about once a week and there is a difference in tire pressure sometimes. Enough that it's certainly noticeable and why I mentioned it in the first place. You should hear the gatorade bottles in my truck crush and expand on the drive
Normal atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.5psi. Therefore, if you went to space your realitive tire pressure would only go up by 14.5psi. I would guess that your gatoraid bottle example is more because of the temperature of the air in the bottle. Clean up your truck.
Sorry to clarify, I just don't like seeing misinformation.
Anyway, with regards to the tire balls, has anyone answered the weight question yet? Also, how is the wheel balance affected? I would think that if the balance was out by a considerable amount that it would induce forces into the suspension. Just a thought since I haven't ridden them,
You might want to consider cutting out all the word abbreviations to make things easier to read. I few extra key strokes go a long way
Anyway...one of the things about the tireballs is that that need to move around a bit to keep the friction down and to reposition themselves if one goes flat so I don't think having individual valves, therefore locking them into one position, would work.
Depending on design they choose for the balls, I really don't see that it would take too terribly long to install and inflate. We have 14 balls in each of our ATV tires and the changing them over and inflation part really doesn't take that long. With the front tires getting the balls in their so that you can access the valve can be a bit tricky, but again...that's why I say it's depending on the design of the individual cells. The rears tires are a lot easier to get positioned and don't take much time. I probably spend more time on all the other things in the process (taking the wheel off, taking off the beadlock, getting the rim out, etc) than changing of the tireballs.
I would just say don't let that alone scare you away from looking at 'em. They're a nice group of guys working there and have a very proven and effective product at least on our side of the market (hence why I'm jumping in, because I'm very curious about them in DH tires and how they work).
Anyway...one of the things about the tireballs is that that need to move around a bit to keep the friction down and to reposition themselves if one goes flat so I don't think having individual valves, therefore locking them into one position, would work.
Depending on design they choose for the balls, I really don't see that it would take too terribly long to install and inflate. We have 14 balls in each of our ATV tires and the changing them over and inflation part really doesn't take that long. With the front tires getting the balls in their so that you can access the valve can be a bit tricky, but again...that's why I say it's depending on the design of the individual cells. The rears tires are a lot easier to get positioned and don't take much time. I probably spend more time on all the other things in the process (taking the wheel off, taking off the beadlock, getting the rim out, etc) than changing of the tireballs.
I would just say don't let that alone scare you away from looking at 'em. They're a nice group of guys working there and have a very proven and effective product at least on our side of the market (hence why I'm jumping in, because I'm very curious about them in DH tires and how they work).
tire balls cause stem babies...
do the balls ever shift around making the tire weight uneven?
do the balls ever shift around making the tire weight uneven?
Normal atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.5psi. Therefore, if you went to space your realitive tire pressure would only go up by 14.5psi. I would guess that your gatoraid bottle example is more because of the temperature of the air in the bottle. Clean up your truck.
No you're right on 10psi at 'normal' conditions. I kicked up the numbers for some quick math and used the wrong ratio.
But I'm sorry your worldly michigan experience is lacking in the changing container pressure phenomenon. It doesn't have jack to do with temperature or the condition of my truck. If it were solely a function of temperature, it would happen all the time.......not at the top or bottom of my occasional commute to sacramento. As I drive downhill in the summer time into much higher heat, I have water bottles that crush........work that one out (I don't use AC in when driving) Go visit a mountain sometime. Or better yet, look at the bags of potato chips in the grocery stores in ski towns.
It happens. I have no doubt that certain weather scenarios exacerbate it but everyone who lives here knows the occurance well.
Yes, bags of chips and sealed bottles crush and inflate as you change altitude. The actual measurable pressure change is not all that much. We are talking a couple PSI nothing to really worry about.
Tire balance should not be a problem as long as the tire balls can move around inside the tire. The tire will actually be balanced better. Large trucks use tire balancers to balance the tires. All these balancers are is a metal ring with ball bearings inside it that move around balancing the tires out. If the tire balls can move freely they will find themselves in the best position for the wheel to spin smoothly.
Tire balance should not be a problem as long as the tire balls can move around inside the tire. The tire will actually be balanced better. Large trucks use tire balancers to balance the tires. All these balancers are is a metal ring with ball bearings inside it that move around balancing the tires out. If the tire balls can move freely they will find themselves in the best position for the wheel to spin smoothly.
Thank you :biggrin:
But yeah all I'm talking about isn't like rock hard dirt jump tire pressures to flat. More like 'barely noticeably low' to 'noticeably low'.
As much as most guys obsess over tire pressures, the ball thing just
seemed like it presented one more annoyance for fine tuning. That's all I was saying.
wow! 93 posts about someones balls being in your tires! HMMMM!
Good to see we are this bored again! LMAO!
Give it credit its different and yet I keep coming back and reading!
Good to see we are this bored again!
LMAO! Give it credit its different and yet I keep coming back and reading!
Cory/kidwoo
You guys are correct that driving up and down the mountain will have enough of an effect to crush a bag of chips. Even 0.1 psi across the size of a bag is a lot of force. My point was that absolute nominal pressure is ~14.5psi and that temperature has a big effect on atmospheric pressure. And yes, I have been to the mountains plenty of times. Last time I checked, physics and chemistry were the same everywhere. PV/T=PV/T Except for meth addict chemistry.
Anyway, think of kids on a merry-go-round with regards to dynamic balance. The balls will not balance themselves out. Not saying that it will be a problem since I don't have a clue on how heavy they are.
With how much trouble some people have with changing tires, I can not see these tire balls going over that well with the average DH'er.
You guys are correct that driving up and down the mountain will have enough of an effect to crush a bag of chips. Even 0.1 psi across the size of a bag is a lot of force. My point was that absolute nominal pressure is ~14.5psi and that temperature has a big effect on atmospheric pressure. And yes, I have been to the mountains plenty of times. Last time I checked, physics and chemistry were the same everywhere. PV/T=PV/T Except for meth addict chemistry.
Anyway, think of kids on a merry-go-round with regards to dynamic balance. The balls will not balance themselves out. Not saying that it will be a problem since I don't have a clue on how heavy they are.
With how much trouble some people have with changing tires, I can not see these tire balls going over that well with the average DH'er.
i havent weighed them yet and it doesnt affect the balence at all becasue there in there so tight that they dont move unless one flats and then they all move to adjust for the flat one there is a specail lube they put in there to help that haha but when they do move they still dont affect the balance they stay put. there may be a bump were the falt one used to be untill u hit a few more bumps thats what helps them move in to place.Normal atmospheric pressure at sea level is 14.5psi. Therefore, if you went to space your realitive tire pressure would only go up by 14.5psi. I would guess that your gatoraid bottle example is more because of the temperature of the air in the bottle. Clean up your truck.
Sorry to clarify, I just don't like seeing misinformation.
Anyway, with regards to the tire balls, has anyone answered the weight question yet? Also, how is the wheel balance affected? I would think that if the balance was out by a considerable amount that it would induce forces into the suspension. Just a thought since I haven't ridden them,
haha why u say that bro!
I remember once....
When Kirt, Palmer and the French jr. kid Max rode out naked on their motos at the vermont naked crit, I seem to recall Max getting his balls stuck (well, they rubbed) in the rear tire of the z50. Does that constitute tireballs?
When Kirt, Palmer and the French jr. kid Max rode out naked on their motos at the vermont naked crit, I seem to recall Max getting his balls stuck (well, they rubbed) in the rear tire of the z50. Does that constitute tireballs?
damn, PV=nRT Someone must have been paying attention in school.
Anyway, we are on the same page. Again, the only point I was trying to make was that tires, shocks, etc don't explode at elevation.
Anyway, we are on the same page. Again, the only point I was trying to make was that tires, shocks, etc don't explode at elevation.
If the tire balls could not move it would work that way. If they can move inside the tire they will self balance. This is an example of a self balancer for automotive applications. http://www.rockcrawler.com/techreports/centramatic/centramatic2.htm
I have a friend using this setup(maybe not this exact one) on his Jeep. He has had no balance problems even with running large 39" tires at highway speeds.
This thread is gold, I love it. Personally, I dont care if the tire balls were free, I will stick with my powdered 2ply tires and a standard tube with 2oz slime each. They have never let me down, and easy to work on
Anyways, I agree 100% its a fix to a Non exisitant problem.
I know exactly the product you are describing here, and I will tell you, Its a crap product, that does NOT work. It makes alot of money because the advertisement looks good in lab conditions, but in reality it just doesnt work. Try putting slime in your vehicles front tires, and see if it "Auto" balances.
Anyways, I agree 100% its a fix to a Non exisitant problem.
I put Stans in my bike tires and it does not all collect to one spot and make the tires out of balance?
That is interesting because I know a few people that have similar products and they do work. The idea I have been skeptical about is putting ball bearing in your tires to balance them. Again I know a few that have had that work too. The ball bearings worked in a pinch making a friends Jeep drivable when before the balance was so off he could not go over 30mph. These are things I know about because in rock crawling it is very common to rip wheel weights off the rims. So any way to eliminate the weights is a good thing so the drive home is safe and comfortable.
Alright, here are some drawings that explain the dynamic wheel balancing effect from ball bearings in tires or external bolt on balancers like Cory linked:
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/HowItWorks.pdf
I understand the physics of how these work now. I was missing the inertia of the balls as the tire imbalance causes an ocilation in the suspension. Makes sence. Thank you Cory for providing the original link to the competitor product of the above link.
With regard to if this would work with Tire Balls, it should work to a limited effect. However, the size of them is larger and they may not move around as easily as the truck product. In addition, the truck products still have air in the tire for inflation. But whatever, if it works for you, run it. I would like to see these tire balls to see how they work in person.
I'll pass on Stik's "tire balls".
http://www.innovativebalancing.com/HowItWorks.pdf
I understand the physics of how these work now. I was missing the inertia of the balls as the tire imbalance causes an ocilation in the suspension. Makes sence. Thank you Cory for providing the original link to the competitor product of the above link.
With regard to if this would work with Tire Balls, it should work to a limited effect. However, the size of them is larger and they may not move around as easily as the truck product. In addition, the truck products still have air in the tire for inflation. But whatever, if it works for you, run it. I would like to see these tire balls to see how they work in person.
I'll pass on Stik's "tire balls".
Ok, I am not trying to be an A$$hole about it, they dont work like there supposed to. I am sorry but go work on one of those big trucks that has been running them for 30K miles and try to figure out why the shocks are wearing out faster than another truck. I am assuming your talking about Big rigs when you say big trucks, this is were I got my start into mechanics. If this idea worked so well, you would see it on everyvehicle that was produced, you would also see results on the balancer. And I wouldnt have to be washing out a can of fixaflat so I can get rid of the horrible vibration a vehicle has.
If your losing your wheels weights when your out rock crawling, Have whoever is Balancing your ties use a stickyweight instead of the standard clipon weight.
Edit.. Thats the last bit I am saying on this, you can't convince me that they work, when I have seen for myself they do not, personally working on a big rig that was going through shocks every 20K until we took the autobalancers off and just balanced the wheels properly. It wasnt a fluke, it was teh only truck on tehe yard with the damn things, and they all had the same shocks.
Thought about the tire balls moving for a bit, and I dont think that will be an issue at all, seeing how they will be fitting in the tyre tight enough to support it. In my mind anyways, if they were loose enough to move inside the tyre, the tyre would also be loose enough to move on the wheel.
can you comment on how they are in the corners? from what i understand, you can run lower pressure, so you have a much larger contact patch, yet not have trouble with flatting.
does that mean that they will fold over easy? or be very squirmy?
how does rolling resistance compare to a normal tube, coz more deformation would suggest more rolling resistance.
I am thinking about sponsoring a Team Tire Balls.
i personally had no prob in the turns they are shaped just like a tube and there really tight in there. for them to be really squirmy ud have to flat like 5 of them yet u could still finish the run/race. rolling resitance they prob have a lil more than reg tire yet i cant tell a dif on a downhill but yet again i only weigh 130lbs so that could also make a differance haha
I dont have any numbers at hand but...
You pump up the balls when they are out of the tyre to the desired pressure. Then you squeze 32 of them in the tyre. And then you squeeze the tyre on to your rim. I have the idea that you then have absolutely no idea of what the actual pressure is inside the individual balls.
So maybe it is just a deception that you can run lower pressure, because the balls are forced to a smaller volume and thus the pressure increases.
Maybe the grease on the balls will counteract this but you would also have more rolling resistance due to more rubber being deformed while riding( this is how I understand why tubeless has lower rolling resistance)
also the individual balls ramp up more when you decrease the volume, this could give better handling, hard to say without havind ridden them.
I dont know how tight of a fit the balls have and if the grease works very good, but I have doubts about the balls distribution after one flats.
racer661, If you where a little bit serious in your job, being sponsored by tyre ballz, you would try to give actual usefull data to clearify these questions. And give your sponsor some value for his sponsorship.
Regarding the balancing of the truck tyre. I only see that working on flat surfaces. As soon as there is a ossilation in the road, or maybe even bumps the movement of the balls will get distorted and create imbalance. I have the idea that the balls tend to go to the point in the tyre with the biggest circumference, not neceserally the lightest part of the tyre. And the tyre isn't a perfect circle, it has a flat spot where it hits the road. so again a force/movement that influences the position of the balls.
You pump up the balls when they are out of the tyre to the desired pressure. Then you squeze 32 of them in the tyre. And then you squeeze the tyre on to your rim. I have the idea that you then have absolutely no idea of what the actual pressure is inside the individual balls.
So maybe it is just a deception that you can run lower pressure, because the balls are forced to a smaller volume and thus the pressure increases.
Maybe the grease on the balls will counteract this but you would also have more rolling resistance due to more rubber being deformed while riding( this is how I understand why tubeless has lower rolling resistance)
also the individual balls ramp up more when you decrease the volume, this could give better handling, hard to say without havind ridden them.
I dont know how tight of a fit the balls have and if the grease works very good, but I have doubts about the balls distribution after one flats.
racer661, If you where a little bit serious in your job, being sponsored by tyre ballz, you would try to give actual usefull data to clearify these questions. And give your sponsor some value for his sponsorship.
Regarding the balancing of the truck tyre. I only see that working on flat surfaces. As soon as there is a ossilation in the road, or maybe even bumps the movement of the balls will get distorted and create imbalance. I have the idea that the balls tend to go to the point in the tyre with the biggest circumference, not neceserally the lightest part of the tyre. And the tyre isn't a perfect circle, it has a flat spot where it hits the road. so again a force/movement that influences the position of the balls.
If the mtn bike ball work like the ATV balls.....
You don't inflate them to full pressue until they are in the tire. You partially inflate them, put them in, and then inflate them all to the desired pressure.
Everything fits in there nice and snug after they're installed. But if balls go completely flat, yes, they do move around to fill up the space. They don't fit tightly enough individually that than can stay in the same position if they're not all in there.
You don't inflate them to full pressue until they are in the tire. You partially inflate them, put them in, and then inflate them all to the desired pressure.
Everything fits in there nice and snug after they're installed. But if balls go completely flat, yes, they do move around to fill up the space. They don't fit tightly enough individually that than can stay in the same position if they're not all in there.
you give him too much credit. he's 13 (14?) and his "sponsorship" is probably a set of pro-deal tire balls. he's not their spokesman, and indeed shouldn't be as pointed out so many times in this thread.
still want to know the weight of these things.
racer 661 you wanna get on that for all of us fellow ridemonkeys?
I'm sure if you could get a weight up here people would make up their mind on whether they want them or not so here's your chance to help your sponsor
racer 661 you wanna get on that for all of us fellow ridemonkeys?
I'm sure if you could get a weight up here people would make up their mind on whether they want them or not so here's your chance to help your sponsor
look im 17 and im not there spokes person and there is a dif between being sponsored and a rnd rider. no i dont buy them casue when your rnding the them u are developing them which means they are experimental and your helping the company make them better, they are not out for the public for a reason they are still in development, which means they are not perfect and not ready. why dont u wait untill there out for the public to be saying anything about them ur making these decisions about them when u dont even know what your tlking about. all im doing is trying to help people understand what they are about and what they do and hopefully sell them to people when they come out.
look im 17 im not perfect neither is any one sorry im not writing a frkin essay that explains the world im just trying to help in any way i can no i dont know everything about tire balls nor does anyone else other than the people that make them the guys that made them are great guys just tlk to them and ask them questions im her to help yet once again i dont know everything sorry. some of the stuff u have said is def correct yet they are still experimental they could be totally dif when they come out with them actual product for the public. yet u are corrdct on some of the things and also cover some of the things that i didnt the questions where just not ask and yet again I DONT KNOW EVERYTHING!
ight ill get back to yall on that!
Not to get all grammerz policez on you, but it would help if you used proper sentence sentence structure to convey your message. Otherwise it just makes the company look bad.
thanks for saying it in a nice way and not being a dick about it haha. but ya l.a. is not my fav nor my best subject in school.
but ill work on it!