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Maribor derailment thread

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
i don't think "americans suck"
You're a frenchfries eating freedomhater and probably Catholic. :busted:

the point i was making was that this thread is precisely the reason that americans have RARELY in the last DECADE finished inside of the TOP 20 at world cup races for a sport that THEY invented (and far outnumber the rest of the world in terms of overall participation).....
That is a bit od, specially considering that in many states the weather is good enough to ride year round.
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
Out of respect for all that is holy- ie World Cups. I have moved my post from the Maribor thread to here.

Sorry about the further derailment. I could really give a sh*t about this, however I am compelled by curiousity by the comments about unindividualisim.

I've been sponsored by IronHorse Bicycles since 2005,
I have been sponsored by Troy Lee Designs since 2007,
I have been sponsored by Five Ten shoes since 2007,
I happened to be sponsored by Scott Optics last year,
This year I am sponsored by Maxxis tires.

Now does having relationships with said companies (who also happen to support Sam) and using these products make me a biter? Should I call off my sponsorship support because I use, and wear a lot of similar product as he does? I'd be better off sitting around looking at pictures of pro's racing on the internet, and organizing my kit so I don't look un-individual?
Sorry, I rather be out there doing work son.
I support the companies who support me, and who have the most superior product (in my opinion-not yours apparently).
I am a professional. So it's ok as long as I'm pulling top fives right?
If I have a poor result I should check my bike and gear in- until I pull off another "top five"?

Why should it be different ok for pro's but not amateurs?
These folks who are out there buying "replica" kits are the ones keeping the sport alive. By buying retail. By having Pro heroes.
This is how it works. If you call these unindividualists lame and cause them to go away, we have no one supporting the shops which in turn support manufacturers, who support races, who support Professionals. It's like a mini-economy duh.

Go ride your damn bike. This is why America has been sucking at Downhill!!!!

Rant over

Lars

Right on Lars!

Along these lines,

In early 2004, when dw-link was basically unheard of and Iron Horse was a 3rd tier brand, I heard more people say "I rode that Sunday and I could not believe how fast I was going, that bike is amazing" I read people talk about that for a year. Many people who rode the bike bought one. Iron Horse was not a popular bike to ride.

Then all of a sudden, two years and change later, Sam wins a World Championship on a Sunday and there are pundits out there talking about how people who are riding the bike just want to be like Sam Hill ?

What happened to all the people that rode the bike and loved it for what it is? Why has nearly every DH company changed their geometry to come closer to the Sunday's? Why have so many bikes come out that try to mimic the Sunday's suspension, for better or for worse?

You are so right Lars, people need to just get out and ride their bike. Figure out what works and doesn't work for themselves, and more importantly get out there and have fun actually riding. The more you ride, the more your equipment will sort itself out for you.
 

Dogboy

Turbo Monkey
Apr 12, 2004
3,208
581
Durham, NC
Right on Lars!

Along these lines,

In early 2004, when dw-link was basically unheard of and Iron Horse was a 3rd tier brand, I heard more people say "I rode that Sunday and I could not believe how fast I was going, that bike is amazing" I read people talk about that for a year. Many people who rode the bike bought one. Iron Horse was not a popular bike to ride.

Then all of a sudden, two years and change later, Sam wins a World Championship on a Sunday and there are pundits out there talking about how people who are riding the bike just want to be like Sam Hill ?

What happened to all the people that rode the bike and loved it for what it is? Why has nearly every DH company changed their geometry to come closer to the Sunday's? Why have so many bikes come out that try to mimic the Sunday's suspension, for better or for worse?

You are so right Lars, people need to just get out and ride their bike. Figure out what works and doesn't work for themselves, and more importantly get out there and have fun actually riding. The more you ride, the more your equipment will sort itself out for you.
Right on Dave!

You speak the truth.:thumb:
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Right on Lars!

Along these lines,

In early 2004, when dw-link was basically unheard of and Iron Horse was a 3rd tier brand, I heard more people say "I rode that Sunday and I could not believe how fast I was going, that bike is amazing" I read people talk about that for a year. Many people who rode the bike bought one. Iron Horse was not a popular bike to ride.

Then all of a sudden, two years and change later, Sam wins a World Championship on a Sunday and there are pundits out there talking about how people who are riding the bike just want to be like Sam Hill ?

What happened to all the people that rode the bike and loved it for what it is? Why has nearly every DH company changed their geometry to come closer to the Sunday's? Why have so many bikes come out that try to mimic the Sunday's suspension, for better or for worse?

You are so right Lars, people need to just get out and ride their bike. Figure out what works and doesn't work for themselves, and more importantly get out there and have fun actually riding. The more you ride, the more your equipment will sort itself out for you.
you gonna be at the Open? I may have stumbled on the opportunity to go
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
Right on Dave!

You speak the truth.:thumb:
agreed. I don't ride a sunday because of Sam, i ride one because I support people like Todd and DW. Iron horse is (or was at least) a brand dedicated to downhill racing pretty much for the love of sport, not money. And while Sam Hill hasn't hurt their sales, I'd argue a good number of Sunday owners (especially those in the East) bought their bikes in support of the iron horse brand and what it stood for.

i could care less where Hill goes next year, but i'm bummed DW and Todd have moved on. Riding a sunday just doesn't have the same alure any more.
 

Acadian

Born Again Newbie
Sep 5, 2001
714
2
Blah Blah and Blah
agreed. I don't ride a sunday because of Sam, i ride one because I support people like Todd and DW. Iron horse is (or was at least) a brand dedicated to downhill racing pretty much for the love of sport, not money. And while Sam Hill hasn't hurt their sales, I'd argue a good number of Sunday owners (especially those in the East) bought their bikes in support of the iron horse brand and what it stood for.
rep given...
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
Why has nearly every DH company changed their geometry to come closer to the Sunday's?
I argue the decision of other companies to copy the Sunday geometry. There is a bunch of riders out there that doesn't care what works for a pro and that can make their own mind what geometry works for them. By everybody copying the Sunday geo the choices are lost which is sad. :disgust:
Not to get flamed: I tested a Sunday because everybody that I know that has one loves it. I had to realize that it doesn't work for me, I just like steeper geos.
So keep the variety or make adjustable frames that everybody can find the bike that works for them.
 

Huck Banzai

Turbo Monkey
May 8, 2005
2,523
23
Transitory
My 1st 'serious' MTB was an IH ARS700. I miss it.

I dont own a sunday because the bigg'st didnt feel big enough for me.

Sam is good.

Sundays are good.

Lars's are good.

DW is good.

I am evil. (not Evil - that would be DW again - wait.. no.. sold.... confused.....)

--

I had a recent episode of collective edouchery with another RM member -- and in reflection on a comment by Mr. Woo -- this guy (and I imagine most eDouches - including me) is a pretty nice guy in person. The internet - it can amplify things....
 

?????

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2005
1,678
2
San Francisco
i don't think "americans suck"

the point i was making was that this thread is precisely the reason that americans have RARELY in the last DECADE finished inside of the TOP 20 at world cup races for a sport that THEY invented (and far outnumber the rest of the world in terms of overall participation).....

i doubt that threads like this pop up on message boards in AUS, SA, NZ, Europe and South america....those downhillers are busy RIDING!

i was saying that american kids are too concerned with getting cool clothes and popular bikes than actually riding
I'd agree, if it weren't for Jared Graves' article in the yeti catalog about how important sock height and good looking riding clothes are and we all know of a certain American that always beats him.

There's nothing wrong with looking good and I seriously doubt it makes anyone any slower.
 
Good luck getting yourself much exposure if you don't look somewhat decent, I've had photographers in the past tell me to get a new helmet because they have some sweet photos, but won't publish them cause my old helmet was so beat up and ugly.
Not that this is an issue for everyone, but if your ambition is to take you riding to the highest level you need support, and support wants to see exposure.
 

RayB

Monkey
Jan 31, 2008
744
95
Seattle
@ Lars, I agree. It is unfortunate that it's become trendy to hate on kids with the "racerboy look".

But c'mon... don't tell me you don't chuckle/scoff a little when you see that one kid at the DH race whose Sunlines are obviously an inch or two too wide for his arms/body proportions... "30 inch bars give you better control" doesn't really apply when the rider is 5'5" with an average wingspan...

Who knows, maybe I'm the only one who finds that slightly funny.
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
^ go look at little kids on small moto x bikes. still have huge bars. of course not as wide as full size ones, but still sometimes wider then what dh uses.
 

dw

Wiffle Ball ninja
Sep 10, 2001
2,943
0
MV
@ Lars, I agree. It is unfortunate that it's become trendy to hate on kids with the "racerboy look".

But c'mon... don't tell me you don't chuckle/scoff a little when you see that one kid at the DH race whose Sunlines are obviously an inch or two too wide for his arms/body proportions... "30 inch bars give you better control" doesn't really apply when the rider is 5'5" with an average wingspan...

Who knows, maybe I'm the only one who finds that slightly funny.
hah I saw a ton of kids with 30 inch bars at Sea Otter and had that chuckle for sure. You are totally not the only one. The bars on my KTM are 32" wide, but it also weighs 225 lbs.. To each his own I guess but kids need to give it a try to figure out what works on the trail rather than on the interweb.
 

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
who pissed in your cornflakes....calm down tough guy....

first off.....taking what i'm saying out of context and quoting me was totally uncalled for...

i don't think "americans suck"

the point i was making was that this thread is precisely the reason that americans have RARELY in the last DECADE finished inside of the TOP 20 at world cup races for a sport that THEY invented (and far outnumber the rest of the world in terms of overall participation).....

i doubt that threads like this pop up on message boards in AUS, SA, NZ, Europe and South america....those downhillers are busy RIDING!

i was saying that american kids are too concerned with getting cool clothes and popular bikes than actually riding

i'll see if i can track down some midol and a good long piece of rope for you though......you need it
Without wanting to get flamed for taking a dig at Americans or something, I think what you're saying about the lack of these kind of topics, on UK forums at least, is true.. most of the time. If you go to an uplift day and see someone wearing £400+ worth of sparkling gear that can't ride for toss and then blames their split new bike, you'd probably have a chuckle with your mates. If I'm being honest, the faster you are, the more you get away with it, but then you might be trying to show potential sponsors that you will be representable if you ride for them, I don't know. But thats pretty much where it ends. You wear what you like and at the end of the day its the riding that matters.

On a slight tangent to this, but I feel still related, is something that consistently amazes me on this forum, and that is the impression I get that a lot of people get a brand new bike for 200X. I understand that theres bound to be a few people on here that have decent sponsorship and that might make it more viable, but how many hours did you spend building up your '08 rig' that you could have spent ragging the sh1t out of your more or less mint condition '07 rig'? How much cash did you spend that could have gone on lift passes? It's not even like its just a frame transplant sometimes, it's complete replacement of parts just because they're a year old! I've honestly never seen this happen with anyone I ride with. People get new frames, maybe have to buy a new BB, but the rest is just carried over.

Apologies if that last bit seems like a rant/jealousy, and I understand that for a lot of people what I've said will not be true. In fact I am a bit jealous, I'd love to have a mint bike, but even if I had the cash to spend, I don't think I'd see the point in spending it just because of a Dec-Jan transition.

Wether all this has a direct affect on America at World Cups, you'll have to tell me!
 

Fonzie18

Turbo Monkey
Good luck getting yourself much exposure if you don't look somewhat decent, I've had photographers in the past tell me to get a new helmet because they have some sweet photos, but won't publish them cause my old helmet was so beat up and ugly.
Not that this is an issue for everyone, but if your ambition is to take you riding to the highest level you need support, and support wants to see exposure.

This is true in my experience also.
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
MarkDH, you are very observant. What you have touched on is my main beef with fresh kits and new bikes every year. America is a consumption driven society and we place too high of an importance on new stuff. Lots of kids are more worried about the perception of riding rather than actually riding. Can't blame them I guess. Its a larger issue that I guess all Americans are part of.

I get the impression that most Australian races are more about the ride and competition rather than having prizes for the 5th place 40+ Sport rider. Maybe I'm way off, but I've seen races around these parts get canceled because we couldn't line up prizes, have fancy timing systems, have a ski lift, etc.

It is of my opinion that we (Americans) in general just care to much about photo shoots, fresh kits, new bikes, and the latest gear.

Edit: I have a frame sponsor. I am lucky enough to ride hard enough that I can put things through the paces and as a result I get jerseys provided to me. I feel an obligation to said frame manufacturer to wear these jerseys to help them gain recognition. But I do feel weird prancing around races with my name on my jersey. IMO, I'm not of the caliber to warrant it.
 

William42

fork ways
Jul 31, 2007
3,908
634
hah I saw a ton of kids with 30 inch bars at Sea Otter and had that chuckle for sure. You are totally not the only one. The bars on my KTM are 32" wide, but it also weighs 225 lbs.. To each his own I guess but kids need to give it a try to figure out what works on the trail rather than on the interweb.
same here. im 6'1" and run 28" bars, and for anything other then rock gardens they feel to wide. seeing groms with 30" bars is funny
 

FlipFantasia

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,659
492
Sea to Sky BC
MarkDH, you are very observant. What you have touched on is my main beef with fresh kits and new bikes every year. America is a consumption driven society and we place too high of an importance on new stuff. Lots of kids are more worried about the perception of riding rather than actually riding. Can't blame them I guess. Its a larger issue that I guess all Americans are part of.

I get the impression that most Australian races are more about the ride and competition rather than having prizes for the 5th place 40+ Sport rider. Maybe I'm way off, but I've seen races around these parts get canceled because we couldn't line up prizes, have fancy timing systems, have a ski lift, etc.

It is of my opinion that we (Americans) in general just care to much about photo shoots, fresh kits, new bikes, and the latest gear.

Edit: I have a frame sponsor. I am lucky enough to ride hard enough that I can put things through the paces and as a result I get jerseys provided to me. I feel an obligation to said frame manufacturer to wear these jerseys to help them gain recognition. But I do feel weird prancing around races with my name on my jersey. IMO, I'm not of the caliber to warrant it.
this post ooooozes truth.....
 

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
I get the impression that most Australian races are more about the ride and competition rather than having prizes for the 5th place 40+ Sport rider. Maybe I'm way off, but I've seen races around these parts get canceled because we couldn't line up prizes, have fancy timing systems, have a ski lift, etc.
I can't actually fathom that a race would be called off because there weren't any prizes. :huh: In Scotland, we are crying out for more races, even though the price continues to rise because of H+S and uplift costs. If I want to race in my own country, I have three options. 1) Race the SDA series at £50 (~$100) a race, 2) race a three part winter series held on one hill at £60 (~$120) a race or 3) get enough qualifying points at the above races so I can enter the NPS when it comes to Scotland, again at £60 a race. All uplifts bar one (Ft. William, and maybe Glencoe but that hasn't had a proper race yet) done on the back of cattle trucks. It's pretty much accepted that unless you have the full sponsorship deal, you will lose money by racing, but there literally aren't enough races to supply the demand because people just love to ride competitively.

To spend so much money on a DH race bike, and then not race because there wasn't a prize which is more than likely worth a fraction of your bike is just incomprehensible.
 

LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
agreed, theres very little financial reward over here, yet people love to race.

the uk natinal champs had prize money of 250 pounds for the 1st place male a few years back

why call off the race and dissapoint the 90% of riders who came for a decent weekends riding/uplifts and who had no ambition of getting prize money
 

profro

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2002
5,617
314
Walden Ridge
Let me be clear. I am talking about proposed races be called in the planning stages because promoters didn't want to search for prizes.
 

DBR X6 RIDER

Turbo Monkey
I know several "bike of the year" people around here and it kind of amuses me. Unless you're a factory pro or there's something very wrong with the current bike you're running, why replace it? My bike prior to my current one was with me for almost three years. It fit well, did everything I wanted it to do and could just plain take a beating. I committed to that bike until the day it died (ok, I killed it slowly).

Being a Sport 40+ kind of guy (moving up to Expert next race), I could care less about prize money. I just want to line up and hear the beep...beep...beep...beep...beeeeeeeeeeep at the start line, hang out/ride with a lot of people with similar interests, learn new techniques/lines and just have a good ol' time. Anything I get out of it beyond that is a total bonus, IMHO.

Racing appears to be in resurgence in general across America. It's definitely that way in the NW with the Fluidride Cup series off to a great start (avg. of 250 DH'ers for first two races). It used to be go clear across the state, down to Oregon or up to Canada to get any racing in around here. It's good to see all the local rippers taking notice of this and doing something (i.e. - showing up and racing) about it...whether they be the jeans & t-shirt shredder or the "fan-boy" in full kit, they are showing up. That's all that really matters when push comes to shove.
 

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
Let me be clear. I am talking about proposed races be called in the planning stages because promoters didn't want to search for prizes.
Ah, I see, that's not so bad. Still, at anything below top national level, I wouldn't personally have lack of prizes as a reason to abandon a race. I suppose it depends on riders expectations from a race series.
 

Lex

Monkey
Dec 6, 2001
594
0
Massachusetts
I'm confused on these subjects a little. Is being a fanboy the same as having a hero in your favorite sport? How is that a bad thing? I guess if the emulation of a hero only goes as far as fashion then it's kind of a waste but if it get's people psyched to ride and be better, where is the harm? With the younger guys it can mean the difference between being "sort of into riding" and getting excited about competing at a higher level.

I didn't start doing downhill until I was in my mid-20s and guys like Nico, Tomac, Palmer, Peaty, Voreis, etc. made me want to be a better rider and racer. These are all guys that are younger than me for the most part but it's about the riding not age or fashion. Look at what Palmer was wearing back then: all fox gear with the gathers at the ankles. Talk about a fashion nightmare by today's standards.
 

CarlE

Monkey
Jan 7, 2008
109
0
Long Island, NY
I'm confused on these subjects a little. Is being a fanboy the same as having a hero in your favorite sport? How is that a bad thing? I guess if the emulation of a hero only goes as far as fashion then it's kind of a waste but if it get's people psyched to ride and be better, where is the harm? With the younger guys it can mean the difference between being "sort of into riding" and getting excited about competing at a higher level.

I didn't start doing downhill until I was in my mid-20s and guys like Nico, Tomac, Palmer, Peaty, Voreis, etc. made me want to be a better rider and racer. These are all guys that are younger than me for the most part but it's about the riding not age or fashion. Look at what Palmer was wearing back then: all fox gear with the gathers at the ankles. Talk about a fashion nightmare by today's standards.
This is pretty much the line of thought I'm on for this subject. As long as you don't go into school/work/the bar(discounting after ride beers of course) wearing a full race get up then your fine. If it makes you want to ride then it can't be bad or a faux pas or whatever.
 

Jensen

Monkey
Apr 30, 2007
248
0
UC/SLO,ca
same here. im 6'1" and run 28" bars, and for anything other then rock gardens they feel to wide. seeing groms with 30" bars is funny
Thats funny you bring this up. The sunlines are about the only thing on my bike/kit that give me racer boy status. Sense further back than i can remember, i have made my own bar extensions, b/c at 6'5" i have broad shoulders and long ass arms. Was a godsend when burgtec and sunline started making >28in bars.
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
....

. But I do feel weird prancing around races with my name on my jersey. IMO, I'm not of the caliber to warrant it.
It would help your confidence if you didn't "prance" while wearing the jersey.:brows:

I grew up watching motocross and all the flash and pop of the kits and bikes...Pink Tuf Racing radiator shrouds, lime goggle straps and day glo orange gloves. Something about a fresh, shiny, matching moto kit makes me feel more committed to what I'm doing come race time.

It's actually odd if you saw my regular wardrobe, which is about as drab as a dungeon.

I like to see the top pros show up in gear color combos or patterns nobody else is wearing and then pick up whichever color set they wore in the season that was flashiest. But nobody busts your balls b/c there are 36 different kits from each manufacturer to pick from and the pro's kit you're sporting isn't on that rider now (b/c he's wearing the next craze that you can't buy yet).

In DH, the pros show up in kits that are the same as what you've got on or you show up in the exact replica kit as that orange/blue stuff that Sam Hill wore...and you just stick OUT. It's not because you're the only fan boy...it's because his kit doesn't change the whole season. Everybody looks at you and goes...FANBOY!

If DH pros switched kits all season long and you showed up next year in their kit, no one would notice you...that's all.
 

pelo

Monkey
Jun 11, 2007
708
0
I wonder who's the most pissed off to win a celebrity death match between Sam Hill and Zach De La Rocha?
Haha... Well I wouldn´t wanna meet this kid!

Fix your knee, I´m going out riding and I´m pissed off.