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Why would you think it was ok to steal?

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DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
Where to start.

1. I don't charge my personal phone at work. Nor do I use my phone at work. While at work, I work.

2. Do you think the hospital owes you something because they pay you little? You chose to be a doc. Want to make more? Choose another living.

3. A lot of folk have chosen to go green and they choose to pay to do so. Ever notice that the hybrid is more expensive then the gas vehicle? Yet people buy them for a laundry list of reasons, and they pay to do so.
3.5 Yes, a lot of employers are giving benefits to those who are going green. Might be nice if they knew they were also subsidizing the costs.

4. Yes, I think Toshi should pay for his own internet connection.

5. Yes, the whole idea of borrowing without asking bothers me.

When I go on a road trip, I pay for my part of the gas. In turn, if we take my truck, you're paying your share of the gas, or I am leaving your ass at the next exit. What happened to the ethic of paying your way, of contributing so that someone else doesn't have to pick up your slack.

Personal transport, internet, cell phones, the juice to run them on: all of these things are not "essentials" in the hunter/gatherer sense of the term. I understand that walking sucks, but redo your spending so that you can afford them. Having a nice bike, a nice computer, a camera; none of these things are yours by default. You chose a life that for the next few years doesn't pay for dick, but that does not mean that those around you are responsible to subsidize you.

If you want things, you pay for them.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,210
10,009
I have no idea where I am
The context of that quote was two goons implying that I should be paying full-fare comcast rates and somehow depositing pennies in the hospital's treasury because I'm (er, will be as of Saturday) a doctor, and therefore must be rich. The reality is that medical residents are basically paid with peanuts and candy.

In that context I think my response was appropriate.

Point taken.

I'm amazed that new doctors can make a living between student loans and malpractice insurance.


However, THIS THREAD STILL FAILS!!
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
Point taken.

I'm amazed that new doctors can make a living between student loans and malpractice insurance.


However, THIS THREAD STILL FAILS!!
Thanks dad.

He's not paying off his student loans yet I suspect, or if he is, he really ought to defer them.

He's not paying Med Mal either, he's a intern, the Hospital covers that as part of being a teaching hospital.
 

MikeD

Leader and Demogogue of the Ridemonkey Satinists
Oct 26, 2001
11,679
1,725
chez moi
As far as Internet goes, if you put your signal into a public space or other people's private space and don't require a password to access it, you're the one making it available for other public use. If anyone's cracking a password, they're thieves.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
As far as Internet goes, if you put your signal into a public space or other people's private space and don't require a password to access it, you're the one making it available for other public use. If anyone's cracking a password, they're thieves.
So by this logic if I don't lock my car and leave it on the street its fair game?

I assure you that if he went to the people from whom he is "borrowing" bandwidth that they might be cool about it. However, if he in the same tone he uses here, said "yea, and I've been doing it for the last six months, and if you block it I can still get in" I think they'd have a very different, and very adverse, reaction.
 

antm

Chimp
Jul 15, 2004
85
0
miami, fl
Hey Dirt. Just curious, but do you post while at work? If so, by your logic, I believe you are stealing from your employer.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,839
24,422
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maybe you should go back to hunting/gathering then.

A large portion of technological innovations were either stolen or given away.

Edison and others stole countless ideas from Tesla. AND PATENTED THEM. AND MADE MONEY FROM THEM. Many of which are inventions our infrastructure is built on today. Oh lets see, radio communication, ALTERNATING CURRENT among them.



Let's also consider another aspect here. Toshi is soon to be a DOCTOR. He helps people. While doctors are very well paid, they are most certainly not the best paid of all professions. He makes a living by HELPING OTHER PEOPLE. The amount of help he provides to people is grossly disproportionate to his salary, and always will be.

On another note, lets take a look at major league sports. Some of the most grossly OVERpaid people in the world. They entertain people, but do they really help people? For those that do, will they end up helping people to the degree and extent that Toshi will? I think not.

Dirt, what do you do to help other people? Are you a doctor? Or are you in the military sector? Judging by some of your other comments you seem to be employed in a high profile sector. Unless you are doing more to benefit more people, than you don't have the right or privilege to chastise Toshi for charging his bike at the company's expense.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
Nope, at home today. One of my days off.

However, I am also self employed, cover all of the overhead for my office and my staff, and any time or costs lost if I were to post would still be coming out of my pocket.

Or I can go one step further.

My wife is a first year intern.
I am a third year out of school lawyer.
I am self employed (read very little money)

Yet I pay for my internet.
I pay for my gas.
I pay for anything I use.
And I pay someone's salary.

The world isn't free. Little things can nickel and dime a business to death. Mind you maybe not a hospital, but when costs keep going up, ask them the next time you're in the ER to deduct some because you shouldn't have to shoulder all of the employee overages.... Let me know if that works.
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
So by this logic if I don't lock my car and leave it on the street its fair game?
Yup!

Not everyone elses job to protect you from your own stupidity and preserve YOUR security.

I suspect you are riding the cotton pony this week.
 

SPINTECK

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2005
1,370
0
abc
I don't understand this whole stealing wifi thing. My connection is super fast w/ a powerful router and I don't even password protect it b/c i want people to benefit.

Yeah, I worry someone will download illegal stuff, but they can track that down to the computer. I'm actually suprised the cable and telephone companies haven't pushed legislators to make it illegal to share wifi. When they realize how much money they loose from stupid people like me sharing, it's only a matter of time before they try to make it "illegal" to protect their money.

So again, if I'm paying 50bucks a month and have plenty of wifi to share, what's wrong with letting my neighbors use it??

Way around passwords?? I've never heard of anyone cracking a protected wifi signal, but I'm not a net guy.

Like the one dude said, go ride your bike before you realize all the other injustices done to you.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
maybe you should go back to hunting/gathering then.

A large portion of technological innovations were either stolen or given away.

Edison and others stole countless ideas from Tesla. AND PATENTED THEM. AND MADE MONEY FROM THEM. Many of which are inventions our infrastructure is built on today. Oh lets see, radio communication, ALTERNATING CURRENT among them.
So you're going with ends justify the means. Check


Let's also consider another aspect here. Toshi is soon to be a DOCTOR. He helps people. While doctors are very well paid, they are most certainly not the best paid of all professions. He makes a living by HELPING OTHER PEOPLE. The amount of help he provides to people is grossly disproportionate to his salary, and always will be.
1. The amount of help he provides will only be disproportinate for 3 to 7 more years. Docs do ok, trust me, my parents were both docs.

2. I could give two flying rat farts less if he was mother ****ing teresa. Pay your own way.

On another note, lets take a look at major league sports. Some of the most grossly OVERpaid people in the world. They entertain people, but do they really help people? For those that do, will they end up helping people to the degree and extent that Toshi will? I think not.
Your point exactly? He CHOSE this life! If he had a 99mph fast ball or could swing a bat like the big boys, I suspect he would have gone another way.

Dirt, what do you do to help other people? Are you a doctor? Or are you in the military sector? Judging by some of your other comments you seem to be employed in a high profile sector. Unless you are doing more to benefit more people, than you don't have the right or privilege to chastise Toshi for charging his bike at the company's expense.
I am ex-military. I did my time in the sand for a pointless war.

Now I am employed by me doing what I do best.

I do have the right and the privilege to take issue with this. He passes the costs along, or just mooches. This is not right. While I respect that maybe you are more giving or are more mooch tolerant than I, for one I do not think its acceptable.

Maybe if he just asked I'd be a lot cooler with it.
 

binary visions

The voice of reason
Jun 13, 2002
22,098
1,144
NC
I'm actually suprised the cable and telephone companies haven't pushed legislators to make it illegal to share wifi.
Your cable company could and would cancel your account if they found out. It's against your terms of service to share it.
 

blue

boob hater
Jan 24, 2004
10,160
2
california
I'm trying to peg which previously-banned crazy Mr. McGirk is, but a definite answer is not coming to mind...
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
ah, so you had to take the hypocritical oath?
No, I had to take this retarded oath about how I would provide, to the best of my abilities (take that as you will) the best defense for my clients and their interests.

This also means if my client killed someone, while I could tell him to turn himself in, that I cannot call the cops or I lose my ticket to ride.

Further, how is it being hypocritical for me to want people to pay their end of things? If he was starving, I'd give him a burger. If he was thirsty, I'd give him a drink. If he was cold, I'd give him a blanket. If he whipped out a Powerbook and asked me to jack in, I'd laugh my ass off at him.
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,839
24,422
media blackout
So you're going with ends justify the means. Check
Did I ever say or imply the ends justify the means? No. I was just giving an example that our society was all but built on this kind of behavior, and that it's nothing new. So 2008 rolls along and here you are, thinking you can change the world.




1. The amount of help he provides will only be disproportinate for 3 to 7 more years. Docs do ok, trust me, my parents were both docs.


Your point exactly? He CHOSE this life! If he had a 99mph fast ball or could swing a bat like the big boys, I suspect he would have gone another way.
I wasn't speaking in absolutes, but cited these examples as a comparison. When you compare what service they provide and the compensation they receive, there is a large gap. Doctors help heal people, and get paid far less than athletes, who merely entertain people.

I could've compared doctors to teachers. both of which are professions that, IMO, are grossly underpaid for the services they provide.



I am ex-military. I did my time in the sand for a pointless war.
1) thank you for your service
2) It was more a question as to whether or not you are working for military companies/contractors developing vehicles, weapons, etc. Which, again, I feel in the bigger picture does more harm than good.



I do have the right and the privilege to take issue with this. He passes the costs along, or just mooches. This is not right. While I respect that maybe you are more giving or are more mooch tolerant than I, for one I do not think its acceptable.
Its all a matter of what time frame you are looking at. In the book "fight club", pahlunik states "on a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone falls to zero." A similar concept holds true here. Yes, he's taking a few cents worth of electricity for his bike today, but on a long enough timeline, he will lose those cents in another way.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,135
13,305
Portland, OR
This is the funniest thing I've read on here in a while. A guy builds an awesome EV and sells his car while someone else calls him a thief because he uses work resources to charge it WHILE AT WORK.

Man, that's funny.
 

Upgr8r

High Priest or maybe Jedi Master
May 2, 2006
941
0
Ventura, CA
I am a third year out of school lawyer.
IMHO lawyers are the biggest theives in the known universe. Everytime there is a class action lawsuit the only people who come out okay are the lawyers. The biggest white collar crimes usually have lawers involved :disgust1:
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,135
13,305
Portland, OR
IMHO lawyers are the biggest theives in the known universe. Everytime there is a class action lawsuit the only people who come out okay are the lawyers. The biggest white collar crimes usually have lawers involved :disgust1:
So he would think that getting a paycheck is ok to steal, then.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
Sounds like this is the thief you're really pissed at. Get off your low horse.
Nope, dealt with that a long time ago.

Did I ever say or imply the ends justify the means? No. I was just giving an example that our society was all but built on this kind of behavior, and that it's nothing new. So 2008 rolls along and here you are, thinking you can change the world.
So now you want to employ the device of what's happened before makes this sort of thing alright? Do we really have to get historical, or do you want to recant this line of thought?


I wasn't speaking in absolutes, but cited these examples as a comparison. When you compare what service they provide and the compensation they receive, there is a large gap. Doctors help heal people, and get paid far less than athletes, who merely entertain people.
So you're using generalizations to deal with a specific. Again, this doesn't work the way you think it does. You're using the idea that what some wonderful and noble doctor who cured cancer somehow justifies the behavior we're discussing of one individual. People get paid what they are worth is what I've noticed, and things are only worth what people are willing to pay, first rule of simple economics.

I could've compared doctors to teachers. both of which are professions that, IMO, are grossly underpaid for the services they provide.
You never went to public school?



1) thank you for your service
2) It was more a question as to whether or not you are working for military companies/contractors developing vehicles, weapons, etc. Which, again, I feel in the bigger picture does more harm than good.
If I would have known what I was going for, I would have stayed at home. So don't thank me for that one. I did it to get school paid for.



Its all a matter of what time frame you are looking at. In the book "fight club", pahlunik states "on a long enough time line, the survival rate for everyone falls to zero." A similar concept holds true here. Yes, he's taking a few cents worth of electricity for his bike today, but on a long enough timeline, he will lose those cents in another way.
I am so glad someone brought Chuck into this.

While the odds against your survival are 1:1, I do not think this in any way justifies the mooching from other people. The concept that "oh well, we're all going to die anyway" is a cop-out at best, it is not a real reason to defend the actions of someone who at the end of the day is too cheap to pay for his much worshiped connection to the source of porn and youtube.

Is he Marla in this event? Is he eating the "meals on wheels" from dead people so he doesn't die? No, he's surfing ride monkey.

Is he attempting to have a Tyler Durden moment, in which he is attempting to bottom out, to not let the things which he owns own him? No, he is feeding a monkey by ripping connection time and power from other folk.




Yes, they left the connection open.
People are stupid.
There is wrong, and there is right.

Currently my neighbor's garage is open.
His brand new 1098 is sitting there.

By the line of thought you're working with, I can go take that because he left the door open.

That, I think, has some holes in it.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
Dirt -

It's ok to be a bit of an ass around here, everyone does it, some more than others.

But lately you're just being a complete dick.


Lighten up.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
How is asking people to pay for which they consume being a dick?
I missed that day of classes on dick-ism, and I thought I had been to most.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,135
13,305
Portland, OR
How is asking people to pay for which they consume being a dick?
I missed that day of classes on dick-ism, and I thought I had been to most.
You are talking about someone paying to use personal electronics at work while working. It's not like he has hijacked his neighbors outlet and is stealing their electricity without giving something back to them.

You are being a dick on this. But hey, that's your right to be a dick.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
Sounds like this is the thief you're really pissed at. Get off your low horse.
You are talking about someone paying to use personal electronics at work while working. It's not like he has hijacked his neighbors outlet and is stealing their electricity without giving something back to them.

You are being a dick on this. But hey, that's your right to be a dick.
Read a little more.

Things like "cracking into the wi-fi" and "subsidized by people who don't know" come up in his threads.

I am not even really bothered by him doing it at work with his cell and even the bike. Actually I am far more offended by his sense of entitlement to other people's connections, even going so far to spend the coin to get a router to use as a relay, and then using poverty as a defense for his actions.

It don't add up right.

If I am a dick, then I am a dick. I pay for what I use, and only use what I pay for.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
It's not the message but the delivery.
Ok, that makes a lot more sense.
Sorry if my less then soft delivery method didn't strike your fancy.
I'm like that some times.
But I am fun to drink and ride and get into bar fight with.
And that, by some lines of thought, should redeem me.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,135
13,305
Portland, OR
Read a little more.

Things like "cracking into the wi-fi" and "subsidized by people who don't know" come up in his threads.

I am not even really bothered by him doing it at work with his cell and even the bike. Actually I am far more offended by his sense of entitlement to other people's connections, even going so far to spend the coin to get a router to use as a relay, and then using poverty as a defense for his actions.

It don't add up right.

If I am a dick, then I am a dick. I pay for what I use, and only use what I pay for.
I guess the whole wifi thing is an odd point around here. There are more public access points then there are people to use them. A lot of people use other peoples connections even when they don't know it because the device they are using auto-connected.

I don't see bandwidth usage as stealing, but I guess that's just me. If someone is using 50% or more of my connection bandwidth to the point it hinders my ability to surf porn, then I would get upset. But because I have a fast connection, I can't use even 50% of my bandwidth, so it doesn't bother me to share.

But you seem to be getting militant over your view. That's the dickish part to me. You say it's stealing, others don't. If you start a thread asking "Why would you think it's ok?" people are likely to answer.

Don't ask questions you don't want answered.

<edit> h8r is shorter winded than I.
 
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jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,839
24,422
media blackout
So now you want to employ the device of what's happened before makes this sort of thing alright? Do we really have to get historical, or do you want to recant this line of thought?
Gross assumption here. I used this example to illustrate how silly it is that you have your panties in a bundle over a few cents worth of electricity when those efforts could be better spent addressing larger issues of theft and deception. Want me to paypal Toshi 8 cents so he can use it to pay to charge his bike? :brows:


So you're using generalizations to deal with a specific. Again, this doesn't work the way you think it does. You're using the idea that what some wonderful and noble doctor who cured cancer somehow justifies the behavior we're discussing of one individual. People get paid what they are worth is what I've noticed
Toshi cured cancer? How come I didn't know about this. I used a generalization, because if there were case studies about every particular instance of every variation of a course of actions, we'd still be in the dark ages arguing semantics.

things are only worth what people are willing to pay, first rule of simple economics.
Back to the sports example... it boggles my mind to think that society feels a basketball/baseball/actor/etc player is worth many millions of dollars more than someone like a doctor or a teacher.

You never went to public school?
I am 100% a byproduct of the public school system. My mother teaches in the public school system. Teachers, as a whole, are underpaid for the fact that they are providing education. Which, IMO, is one of the most important things a society can do, is to educate it's citizens.

Nowadays most teachers in public also have to act as security guards.

If I would have known what I was going for, I would have stayed at home. So don't thank me for that one. I did it to get school paid for.
Nothing wrong with that. I was thanking you because I value the services our veterans have given (I have a number of family members who are veterans). Whether or not I agree with the conflict is a different story.

I am so glad someone brought Chuck into this.
Can't tell if this is sarcasm. :huh:

While the odds against your survival are 1:1, I do not think this in any way justifies the mooching from other people. The concept that "oh well, we're all going to die anyway" is a cop-out at best, it is not a real reason to defend the actions of someone who at the end of the day is too cheap to pay for his much worshiped connection to the source of porn and youtube.

Is he Marla in this event? Is he eating the "meals on wheels" from dead people so he doesn't die? No, he's surfing ride monkey.

Is he attempting to have a Tyler Durden moment, in which he is attempting to bottom out, to not let the things which he owns own him? No, he is feeding a monkey by ripping connection time and power from other folk.
I wasn't trying to bring anything else in from Fight Club other than that quote as an example of the law of averages.



Yes, they left the connection open.
People are stupid.
There is wrong, and there is right.

Currently my neighbor's garage is open.
His brand new 1098 is sitting there.

By the line of thought you're working with, I can go take that because he left the door open.

That, I think, has some holes in it.

I agree with the fact that there is right and there is wrong. Was it wrong for Toshi to charge his bike without paying for the electricity? Is it wrong for people to mooch wifi? Ultimately, yes.

However given how much corruption and theft there is in our society, and the high levels it has infiltrated, and the sums that move around illicitly, I think your efforts would be better spent elsewhere. Getting into hysterics about 8 cents worth of electricity is just as silly as going squirrel hunting with a sherman tank.

I wish people were half as passionate and pissed off about corporate and governmental corruption as you are about Toshi's 8 cents worth of free electricity. Things might actually change then.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
Ok, that makes a lot more sense.
Sorry if my less then soft delivery method didn't strike your fancy.
I'm like that some times.
But I am fun to drink and ride and get into bar fight with.
And that, by some lines of thought, should redeem me.
I don't think taking wifi is right. I also don't look down on anyone who does.

If you leave you router wide open in this day and age that's like leaving a box of stuff on the sidewalk. I don't look at it like leaving your garage unlocked.



[derail rant]I do however think getting a handicapped plate because you are obese is not only wrong, but criminal. You get the parking spot and not the guy in the wheelchair because you can't put the Funions down? FVCK YOU, YOU FAT FVCKING FVCK.[/derail rant]
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,135
13,305
Portland, OR
Currently my neighbor's garage is open.
His brand new 1098 is sitting there.

By the line of thought you're working with, I can go take that because he left the door open.

That, I think, has some holes in it.
No, but if he is riding down the street and you jump on the back, is that stealing, or just ghey?

<edit>
[derail rant]I do however think getting a handicapped plate because you are obese is not only wrong, but criminal. You get the parking spot and not the guy in the wheelchair because you can't put the Funions down? FVCK YOU, YOU FAT FVCKING FVCK.[/derail rant]
Leave me and my funions out of it!
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
However given how much corruption and theft there is in our society, and the high levels it has infiltrated, and the sums that move around illicitly, I think your efforts would be better spent elsewhere. Getting into hysterics about 8 cents worth of electricity is just as silly as going squirrel hunting with a sherman tank.

I wish people were half as passionate and pissed off about corporate and governmental corruption as you are about Toshi's 8 cents worth of free electricity. Things might actually change then.
Oddly, that is the sort of law I practice. High level graft is what I go after every day. Call it revenge for Enron.

What I've noticed in my three years of going after this sort of high level corruption is that it all traces back to the behaviors I take issue with in this thread.

Scale does not determine ethic or moral. I don't see things much anymore in gray just because it clouds things when I try to deal with things on a much bigger scale.

Today its internet, tomorrow who knows. He's on his way up, and who knows, it might be him or the HMO he runs who I end up in court with some years down the road. Maybe, just maybe, bringing it to light, might prevent that.

Wishful thinking and a bit gradiose I understand, but you get the idea.
 

H8R

Cranky Pants
Nov 10, 2004
13,959
35
I wish people were half as passionate and pissed off about corporate and governmental corruption as you are about Toshi's 8 cents worth of free electricity. Things might actually change then.
THERE IS NO GREY AREA, TOSHI IS THE NEW KENNETH LAY.

:D
 

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,839
24,422
media blackout
A lot of it gets back to malicious intent. I can just see Toshi... in a castle on a hill during a lightning storm... pondering ways to charge his bike with out paying, all while laughing maniacally. With a hunchback wandering around.
 

DirtMcGirk

<b>WAY</b> Dumber than N8 (to the power of ten alm
Feb 21, 2008
6,379
1
Oz
[derail rant]I do however think getting a handicapped plate because you are obese is not only wrong, but criminal. You get the parking spot and not the guy in the wheelchair because you can't put the Funions down? FVCK YOU, YOU FAT FVCKING FVCK.[/derail rant]
AMEN! I am a fat bastard, but lord strike me dead if I ever get a plate because I can't walk my fat ass into Wendy's to get just that little bit fatter.

No, but if he is riding down the street and you jump on the back, is that stealing, or just ghey?

<edit>


Leave me and my funions out of it!
Wait, do you live next door?
Cause I am jumping on your back the next time you go by. Its best just to let me finish, then I'll get off.
 
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