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transition top vs blackmarket riot/mob

cornfed

Monkey
Jul 30, 2007
199
0
Wow there is a $hitload of ignorant statements in about 60% of this thread.

OP I will set you straight. First off the Mob is made from TrueTemper SuperTherm tubing which is custom drawn and butted specifically for S&M Bikes. S&M welds the Mob in the US using US manufactured high end $$ tubing. S&M is very well known for producing some of the best CrMo frames on the market.

The Mob has drilled holes for a Gyro install, a chainstay brace that is actually a beer bottle opener, an integrated seat clamp and a few litle differences. Available in horizontal or vertical dropouts and with or without ISCG tabs.

The Riot has the same geometry as the Mob but is made from a less expensive tube set and is welded overseas (not by S&M). The Riot comes in only 2 sizes and horizontal drops only as opposed to the Mob (5 frame sizes and vertical or horizontal drops) so production costs are less overall. Hence the $200 difference.The Riot uses a standard clamp designed for a standard 27.2mm frame. Get a Surly MTB clamp.

The Mob is just under a 1/2 pound lighter than the Riot but the real difference is the feel of the frame. I owned a Riot and then swapped to a Mob and there is a BIG difference in feel. The bike handles better and feels much more forgiving than the Riot did.

Now both of them compared to the TOP is a world of difference in frame feel. An aluminum frame is stiffer than a CrMo frame as the tubing wall thickness is smaller but the diameter of the tube is usually larger than a steel tube. This creats a stiffer frame overall. As far as weight the older frames were over 6lbs but the new 08' weight is now under 6lbs (claimed 5.6 but I think more like 5.9). There new design is terrific and they really cleaned up the geometry.

A couple things to consider are the BB height, chainstay length, head angle and overall wheel base of the complete build. Also the new TOP uses a Spanish BB so you have to go with a Spanish BB set-up for the cranks. No big deal but just different than the Euro BB on the Mob/Riot.

As far as the steel vs. aluminum argument different people like different characteristics. For me riding park and DJ I find that the CrMo is just a better frame material. It does not cause as much shock to the wrists and body compared to aluminum. In addition Aluminum frames will eventually weaken and break at some point. That is just a fact with Aluminum. Sure it may never happen in the time you own a bike, but I build my bikes to last over 5 years. I would not want to be riding any aluminum HT past 5 years regardless of manufacturer.

So in the end either frame is absolutely the best for each material type in my opinion. I have owned 4 different (still own 2) Transition frames and they are a tremendous company to deal with. I have talked to and worked with Keven and Kyle over 20 times for different frames, parts, questions, etc. I have had the same experience with Mondo at BlkMrkt. He knows his stuff and is a great resource. Really either way you go you can't go wrong.

Now comes the swing pics. Tell me you don't want this machine:







Not complete without an action shot...
Why are you guys talking about aluminum? The ToP is steel. As nice as your bike is, I'll tell you I don't want it. No offense, I like my TOP:



 
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May 23, 2007
168
0
Stamford, CT
Im loving my riot. It's very light and makes all the bmx kids envious. I was about to consider the TOP but the guys at Ride This told me the stole some geometry from the riot/mob. Not sure if that's entirely true since I haven't seen a TOP in person or bothered to compare but it was enough for me to pick the Riot.




thats FDR in Philly btw to those who don't know
 

DirtBag

Monkey
Feb 1, 2006
648
0
Nope no offense taken. I actually merged my defense on aluminum in the same paragraph as a ToP reference by accident... My bad. Long day. I was typing like 3 thoughts in the same sentence...

Like I said The ToP or the Mob really are 2 of the best frames out there IMO.
 
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46chief

Monkey
Jun 12, 2007
296
0
my god reading comprehension just isn't an option around here...

All three are steel, not sure of the quality of the tubing from Transition but the new 08 looks pretty sweet, as does the mob.
 

DirtBag

Monkey
Feb 1, 2006
648
0
Another thing I liked more about the Mob/Riot over the ToP (07' and older) is the clean lines. No derailler tabs. The new 08' ToP is nice and clean now with the removed tabs.

Plus then I wanted something sub 6lbs. Again Transition answered the call and dialed in the ToP.
 

cornfed

Monkey
Jul 30, 2007
199
0
I didn't like the ToP until the '08 version became available.

I chose it over a Mob because it has slightly steeper geo, shorter stays, and a 23" TT. I weighed it on my scale @ 2.52kg, (about 5.6 lb or so). Light enough for me.
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
So much wrong info in this thread.

Either way... You can't go wrong. The ToP is a very nice frame, as is the Riot or Mob. To complicate things, look at Dobermann as well. They have a very good factory direct deal that I think falls into (or at least quite close) to the price range of the other frames. I was choosing between the ToP, Mob, and Pinscher myself. You can see what I chose:

 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
Superco comes in several hundred (like $300-$400) more I thought than any of the frames listed?? I could be wrong, but I thought they were in the $1000 range. With the Dobermann factory direct deal (they throw in a custom serial number and custom color I believe beyond the price being cheaper than through a shop) you really can't go wrong....
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
The Dobermann is all hand made as well. The Superco pricing is on par with either of the Dobermann Fabrication's higher end frames. I'm guessing they would use a similar tubeset. The Pinscher is the lightest frame, doesn't used quite as high end of a tubeset, but is a very high quality frame. (I don't know about the grades of tubes so I can't compare the tubes themselves.) The other two have a lot of gussetting that adds weight but more machining in certain areas to remove some as well. They are all 24" or 26" compatible.

So now instead of Transition and Black Market you have:

Transition ToP
Black Market Mob
Black Market Riot
Dobermann Pinscher
Superco Charger
Dobermann Molosse (middle frame)
Dobermann M.B.F. (highest end frame)

After riding the Pinscher I can't imagine needing more though.

(You would think I get paid for this ****. Haha)
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
I used to ride trials on a dedicated trials bike. The Dobermann with the slammed fork works just fine. Running roughly a 2:1 gear I can still do a lot of the street-trials moves that I would do before, plus a lot more that I couldn't. It has a small amount of BB rise which is also common in trials bikes. It really is the best all around bike that I could have built.
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
That fork on my Dobermann is a Nemesis Project Tuned 4X. The work was done to the fork within a day and it was shipped overnight to me to make sure that I had it in time for a trip to Ray's earlier this year. Nothing but good words about NemPro from me.
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
I'd try to make it for sure. I haven't been able to get much jumping in at all this year. (I usually at least ride the BMX track down here but everything has been mud.) I've hit one urban in Chicago so far this year. I'm sure I'll end up in the area a few more times. I imagine you'd make a trip to the Plainfield park once it's done as well.

Now really.... for the money that I put into my Dobermann and what you are selling your Mob for, I probably would have picked up the Mob at the time and saved some money on the complete build. I regret nothing with this bike though.
 

t1maglio

Monkey
Oct 29, 2001
855
0
southern wisconsin
Your dobie is sweet, and from a buyers perspective it blows my mind that the MOB isn't running out the door, but maybe its gas prices...

I just saw that plainfield is having a digging day this weekend, I'll come down there for sure. My trails have been off and on muddy, but thats just good to help focus on digging instead of riding. Looking forward to a few months of just doing that, though.
 
Sep 20, 2007
443
0
Champaign, IL
Yeah. I wanted to make that dig day but I need to take down a couple dead trees that are on my property but looming over the neighbor's house this Saturday. One more nasty storm and I could be buying them a new wall. That wouldn't be good. Haha