2008 Fox 40 set up help.

I dont have a fox 40. But in general I would say you should increase the LSC and decrease the HSC.

more LSC gives you stability and less HSC gives you better small bump compliance.

djamgils said:

I dont have a fox 40. But in general I would say you should increase the LSC and decrease the HSC.

more LSC gives you stability and less HSC gives you better small bump compliance.

Click to expand...

Not exactly sir.

If you are feeling it spike in a rutted turn and you are going fast/kind of a g-out turn try letting off on the high speed compression a few clicks. Another problem could be your rebound, your fork pretty much has a single phase rebound so getting that adjustment just right is very important.

Real simple folks-
Low speed compression is going to control how well the fork tracks on small consecutive bumps, roots, small rocks, imprefections in the trail ect. ect.. It will also control brake dive and pedaling feedback. Less (-) = more compliant and more brake dive and pedal bob. More (+) = less complian, skipping over roots, rocks ect ect a bit more and less brake dive, pedal bob.

High speed compression controls how the fork is going to take a medium/big hit. Drops of course, Drifting into a corner and hitting a rut will be considered a medium hit, hitting a larger sized root, rock or whatever head on ect ect. Same rules apply to adjusting HSC as LSC. (-) is less and (+) is more. It is really simple.

increase small bump compliance? and reduce brake dive? no such thing man. its always a trade off.

start here: wind in your LSC all the way, then out 4 clicks. then go ride your bike, add the HSC one turn at a time (4 clicks).

i run my lsc 5 clicks from full closed, and hsc 3 turns in. even tho they are lsc and hsc adjusters they effect each other a fair bit. and the last 4 clicks on the lsc adjuster make the biggest difference on the 40.

boogenman said:

Not exactly sir.

If you are feeling it spike in a rutted turn and you are going fast/kind of a g-out turn try letting off on the high speed compression a few clicks. Another problem could be your rebound, your fork pretty much has a single phase rebound so getting that adjustment just right is very important.

Real simple folks-
Low speed compression is going to control how well the fork tracks on small consecutive bumps, roots, small rocks, imprefections in the trail ect. ect.. It will also control brake dive and pedaling feedback. Less (-) = more compliant and more brake dive and pedal bob. More (+) = less complian, skipping over roots, rocks ect ect a bit more and less brake dive, pedal bob.

High speed compression controls how the fork is going to take a medium/big hit. Drops of course, Drifting into a corner and hitting a rut will be considered a medium hit, hitting a larger sized root, rock or whatever head on ect ect. Same rules apply to adjusting HSC as LSC. (-) is less and (+) is more. It is really simple.

Click to expand...

With small bump compliance I mean roots and stones that are big enough to get to the hsc. Roots and stones that would be LSC are so small that it will be absorbed by the tyres.

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=182140&highlight=craig+avy

boogenman said:

Real simple folks-
Low speed compression is going to control how well the fork tracks on small consecutive bumps, roots, small rocks, imprefections in the trail ect. ect...

High speed compression controls how the fork is going to take a medium/big hit. :

Click to expand...

Actually these statements are pretty much incorrect. High and low refer to shock shaft speeds....this has nothing to do with 'size of impact'....infact, a smaller impact will generally impart a higher shaft speed due to the shorter impulse time....and a larger hit like landing a jump to transition will generally be a low speed event due to the longer impulse time.

Some of the problem defining these terms in the bicycle world is due to mis-use of terms, some is due to peoples recolection of over-damped platform shocks. The small bump compliance (total lack there of) of some of the 'SPV' shocks had more to do with overall damping curve and certainly the transition threshold (which is more what you are refering to). Unfortunately the bad feeling of platform dampers is many times assosciated with LSC. A proper suspension (even with 'lots' of LSC) will activate on the smallest bumps....as they are truely a HSC event.

right.

I'm just going by what I have learned from 15 years mountain biking, having a pretty darn good knowledge of mot-X and snowmobile suspension systems and them of course what has been taught to me from the multiple clinics and classes I have attended while I was a professional bike mechanic for 10 years.

I'd tend to think more along the lines of davep, then go out and just do a bunch of testing. Adjust one thing at a time! The way I set up a fork from the box:
Fully open HS an LS, play with Rebound till your happy.
Add LS in large increments, say 10 clicks. Till its too much then back it off a bit. I like a fair bit of LS.
Readjust rebound, I tend to set it a bit faster and the fork gets more stable.
Add HS at about 5 clicks at a time, I found I didn't like much too HS.

I think I am running LS 2/3 the way closed (I lost the bearing that makes it click), and 5 clicks of HS. Rebound is only a few maby 4 clicks in from open.

-C- said:

Should have mentioned, I run as little rebound as possible, I hate the pogo stick feeling.

Click to expand...

I know exactly what you mean but just to correct you, if you are running your fork rather "slow" it means you are actually running more rebound not less...for some reason people tend to think that if your rebound is slow it means you are not running a lot of it, which is incorrect, because you are in fact using a lot of rebound dampening...

On my 40 Im pretty much just like TomBo, LS 2/3 clicks in and HS 4...as for rebound, pretty all the way open...

Not to derail, but could davep or someone who has some tuning time tell me how to adjust my 888 wc ata??

I'm not going to use the travel adjust at all, just going to run at a 200mm.

It has a positive air input on top of the right leg and a negative (par) on the bottom. I'm running around 140 in the bottom and 60 in the top and it feels how I want it, but have no idea what to do with compression nobs...

On the left leg it has the RC3 cartridge, rebound on top of a compression nob on top of the left leg and a compression nob on the bottom of the left leg.

Since marz's manual has zero tuning tips, are one of these high speed and one low speed? I'm confused.

bent_steel said:

Not to derail, but could davep or someone who has some tuning time tell me how to adjust my 888 wc ata??

I'm not going to use the travel adjust at all, just going to run at a 200mm.

It has a positive air input on top of the right leg and a negative (par) on the bottom. I'm running around 140 in the bottom and 60 in the top and it feels how I want it, but have no idea what to do with compression nobs...

On the left leg it has the RC3 cartridge, rebound on top of a compression nob on top of the left leg and a compression nob on the bottom of the left leg.

Since marz's manual has zero tuning tips, are one of these high speed and one low speed? I'm confused.

Click to expand...

Check your PMs. I don't want to derail this thread with my really long explanation.

"fully open" = counter clockwise

^ what he said. otherwise just look at the sticker on next to the adjuster. all the way out = - ve.

i run 3 clicks of rebound, i would run less if the fork doesn't make that gay top out noise. any more and i can feel the fork packing down ever so slightly, not that it would slow me down, but it just feels horrible. dont worry about running fast rebound, its good.

seriously man, just screw in the lsc adjuster all the way in and back off 4 clicks. the rest of the range does fak all. then work on the hsc adjuster, adding more.

adding one click of lsc at a time will get you no where since it makes such a tiny difference and its still going to be far off from what the ccbd is like.

as for hsc and lsc, davep has got it right.

davep said:

Some of the problem defining these terms in the bicycle world is due to mis-use of terms...

Click to expand...

I agree 100%

davep said:

Unfortunately the bad feeling of platform dampers is many times assosciated with LSC.

Click to expand...

I know this is kicking a dead horse, but... that bad feeling came from a variety of other factors such as poor set up & improper design not from the actually technology. From a damping curve standpoint a CV/t or SPV shock has a much rounder initial curve, as the shim or valve goes from closed to open, than a shim shock. Meaning it reaches it "final value" slower than a shim shock, equalling better bump blowoff. This might not be evident unless using a dyno powerful enough to generate a triangle wave, meaning powerful enough to approach instantaneous velocity, but for a given shaft speed and looking at similar initial values the pneumatic valve wins every time.
A weaker crank dyno will only give you a general idea of what the damping force will be in the middle of the stroke as the sinusoidal wave won't hit peak velocity until then. This is OK for a pure shim shock as the force looks the same across the stroke but it doesn't show the initial transition to that force, nor does it show the constantly varying stuff the pneumatic valve is doing through out the stroke.

And just so it doesn't seem like I'm preaching here's a con that's directly related. The valve blows open so well that it sometimes doesn't slow the shaft down enough, so as it reaches the middle of the stroke where the damping curve is flat, especially on an air shock where the spring rate is also flat, the shock feels like it falls through the stroke too much. The only solution on past air shocks has been to raise the air pressure which raises the initial damping numbers and makes it feel harsh. On a damper with a resy and compression adjuster you can dial in the speed sensitive adjusters to help fill in the damping where needed, but with 2 position and 2 speed sensitive adjusters it was easy to get lost.

Just my 2c, sorry to derail, the set up tips have been good so far.

Agree with you Tee, and I followed and read all of your help to others with the '5th' thread. I is awesome to have people like yourself with the background and first hand experience to give 'real' feedback here. I wish all/any mfg was so open about their products and how to make them better for the user.

.....Sometimes I just find myself writing a huge bunch of stuff on these boards, and then I realize I need to start providing definitions, background, ....then it gets into physics, dynamics...a bunch of higher level math.....essentially a bunch of stuff that is boring, takes a bit of specialized education to follow, and in the end...no one cares..

So I try to keep things as simple and uncomplicated as possible while still making my point...sometimes things get a bit 'glossed over'...

dhkid said:

...that gay top out noise. ....

Click to expand...

Does it lisp???


BTW, while we are on terminology....WTF does the bike biz not use 'ret'???? IT takes all the ambuguity away from a dial or knob and confusing terms like 'in', 'out', etc.

Like the PP knob on the DHX...it is reverse threaded and loads a spring that holds a valve open.......in out open close loose all meaning......

ret !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ret !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ret !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

davep said:

Does it lisp???



Like the PP knob on the DHX...it is reverse threaded and loads a spring that holds a valve open.......in out open close loose all meaning......

Click to expand...

lisp? not sure what you are referring to. it has been recently bled by mojo, there is no dead spots at all. i dont really need my rebound any faster anyways. happy the way it is.

open and close following the + and - signs still has meaning, + is more damping, - is less damping. what the spring preload is doing on the boost valve doesn't matter to the end user. only how the damping is changed is.

more damping + (clockwise) direction, less damping, vice versa. i dont see any problem there.

until of course some idiot comes along and doesn't even follow the sign convention of clockwise tighten/ more damping, anti clockwise loosen/less damping.


mtty tee, you posting here just reminded me to put my 5th back on my bike and see how it is compared to the push dhx. weee!!

dhkid said:

lisp? not sure what you are referring to. it has been recently bled by mojo, there is no dead spots at all. i dont really need my rebound any faster anyways. happy the way it is.

open and close following the + and - signs still has meaning, + is more damping, - is less damping. what the spring preload is doing on the boost valve doesn't matter to the end user. only how the damping is changed is.

more damping + (clockwise) direction, less damping, vice versa. i dont see any problem there.

until of course some idiot comes along and doesn't even follow the sign convention of clockwise tighten/ more damping, anti clockwise loosen/less damping.
!

Click to expand...

I have seen many people post/ask if 'more' rebound ment faster or slower.....



I know you think it is simple (I do to)....and it is....but many people dont really even know the definition of damping. (nothing agianst them..just different background/education..there are many things I dont know sh1t about). I would guess that there are some things that you will find very basic once you complete your BS, that most people, even other engineers in other disciplines wont understand....maybe even others in your own class struggle with..


I guess the term 'ret' is already used for the same exact use in other places (moto, auto, etc) it seems odd that it is not used in bikes.....then again the bike biz is full of items that are taken directly out of other applications, yet called something different, use different terms, and have completely different use instructions and functionality.
Brakes come to mind.....every car and moto in the world uses disc brakes with an open master cylinder with a removeable cap. You fill the cap, pull the lever and crack the bleed to bleed the system....now the bike biz decides that is somehow too.....difficult, dirty, simple, whatever.....
So most bike brakes need some odd contraption of little adapter, syringe, bottle, another syringe.....oh yea, and they use baby oil (there is something called brake fluid..for a reason).........WTF???


hmm lisp.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_lisp

davep said:

...sometimes things get a bit 'glossed over'...

Click to expand...

Totally understand, I'm just happy I didn't get flamed for defending the technology