As you may know the forest service tore down the ribbed trail in Leavenworth. It is a shame. I was there about 5-6 weeks ago when some kid got really hurt on the ladder drop, he got carried out by search and rescue. He was riding way out of his league. Anyways I was talking to the authorities at the time of the accident and they told me that to many people were getting hurt and they were going to tear it down. Last time I checked, more hikers and mountain climbers get hurt or killed and we as tax payers pay hundred of thousands of dollars for search and recovery efforts. Does that mean the forest service should tear out every singletrack,hiking trails that exist, I think not. It looks to me that they are picking on bikers, maybe us bikers should turn around and sue the forest service for being a bunch of idiots............ think about it
idiots in the forest service
- Thread starter dbirds2
- Start date
They get paid to be over zealous, under paid faux cops with a desire to terminate anything they don't understand.
Rebuild it, and I will come.
Rebuild it, and I will come.
I would think if "too many people were getting hurt" on a hiking or climbing trail they would close it too? Or sanitize it enough to keep people from getting hurt.
PS; a lot of S&R operations are volunteer.
that sucks, big time
ewwwwww.....
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WA is odd to me. You guys are too accepting of government control here.
Sometimes its healthy to say "**** you" to those running things.
If the laws don't include you, then they don't apply to you.
Sometimes its healthy to say "**** you" to those running things.
If the laws don't include you, then they don't apply to you.
......and start making it happen.
Some of the folks that have commented here build legally, some illegally and a few, do both. Either way, those people are making sh!t happen, in my book.
However, most just sit here on the forums and b!tch about not having something "worthy" of their skillset to ride. I suppose if you can't find something that challenges you, then A. you're not looking hard enough or B. you're not creating enough.
I look at some of the illegal stuff as civil disobedience and sometimes stuff gets torn down.....builders have to accept that possibility. However, it can sometimes help foster conversations with land managers that can lead to bigger and better stuff (Black Rock, PA, etc.). With that said, builders need to be MUCH smarter about not cutting down /nailing into live trees, leaving garbage and beer cans behind, etc. As soon as non-bikers/land managers see that sh!t, we instantly lose credibility and are fighting an uphill battle from the get-go.
Cheers,
EB
Some of the folks that have commented here build legally, some illegally and a few, do both. Either way, those people are making sh!t happen, in my book.
However, most just sit here on the forums and b!tch about not having something "worthy" of their skillset to ride. I suppose if you can't find something that challenges you, then A. you're not looking hard enough or B. you're not creating enough.
I look at some of the illegal stuff as civil disobedience and sometimes stuff gets torn down.....builders have to accept that possibility. However, it can sometimes help foster conversations with land managers that can lead to bigger and better stuff (Black Rock, PA, etc.). With that said, builders need to be MUCH smarter about not cutting down /nailing into live trees, leaving garbage and beer cans behind, etc. As soon as non-bikers/land managers see that sh!t, we instantly lose credibility and are fighting an uphill battle from the get-go.
Cheers,
EB
I understand what your saying but this state is pretty screwed on its ideas of "extreme" mountain biking. I used to do some maintenance on the Duvall trail and ride it a lot as it was the closest and easiest trail to get to from my house. DNR is/was going to log the section of forest that the trail is in. However before they logged it they payed someone to make the trail un-rideable; they tore up the berms and lips to the few jumps out there and put dead fall in the trail. I don't know about any of you but I think its pretty fvcked when DNR will spend money to destroy a trail before it gets destroyed anyway, yet they won't spend money to build or make a trail. I personally don't even feel like doing anything on DNR land, really whats the point? I could build the most amazing trail and ride it for a few years and have it get torn down or I could get 300ft of it built and have it torn down. That doesn't give me motivation. The other thing that really bugs me is that it has nothing to do with the environment or safety, if it did they wouldn't allow it to be logged.
Sucks about Ribbed. Hopefully I can get out of this state sooner than latter and go some place where this crap isn't an issue.
It's not just extreme. Believe me it's not like government groups were handing out plots of land for XC or what's really known as Multi-Use. Meaning the trails HAVE to accomodate hiker and sometimes horses.
You probably don't know and/or don't care, but there are major issues and concessions that have had to be made. Like mandatory work parties at Tiger, like only being able to ride on odd days at Mid Fork Snoqualmie, and when we finally get a park to call our own, it's in a homeless retreat underneath a freeway, to trails getting closed to us without notice at Fort Ebey, and areas getting re-designated where bikes are banned like Mount St. Helens Trails possibly and many more.
Change is not going to happen overnight, but if you think your sad violin music is really falling on deaf ears, it's not like i look forward to illegal trails dying. Hell i spent a few long days out at Duvall building surprise surprise... But all this whining about things being bad, well sit down next to the rest of us down here, cuz we're quite used to it...
i think if i can say anything on my own personal perception is of the politics of mountain bikes. Is yes it's sucks, but it used to suck worse. It is getting better, and the only way you can get rid of the mountain of $hit is one scoop at a time with a shovel. Just make sure you're not throwing the shoveled $hit on the mountain biker next to you.
I often find you kind of a puss bag Skookum but I couldn't agree with you more.
We've gone through many stages with the DNR, and I feel that they are as cooperative as they can be given what the regional managers have to deal with from higher up. Most of you know at least some of the growth chart of Dry Hill, and most of you probably consider it somewhat successful. True, we have limitations especially when it comes to woodwork, but overall it still works. It's a constant game of give and take.
It has been said over and over, but I don't know whether it's taken seriously sometimes. Create a positive relationship with your local landmanager. I bet in most cases they would be stoked to work with you, they just have a lot of legitimate concerns and historical evidence of it not working (ie tearing out trails). Starting with smaller projects, mellower trails, maybe even multi-use trails and then enhancing them later as they become more comfortable with things. I remember the first time we had an actual walk through by the Olympia DNR guys, they thought even the easiest stuff was nuts. Since then we've gotten our local guy to get more comfortable with things by showing him videos of people actually riding, and he has passed it on to his higher-ups and they are getting more comfortable with things, and who knows how far it may go.
We've taken out enough things we've built that we don't really want to do that anymore, but it's better to take it out yourself. We've built things, walked them with the land manager, and either he says yeh or neh, but either way it's open and we are willing to bend as much as we expect him too. If it was known that the duval trails were not acceptable, maybe someone else could have volunteered to disassemble the trail rather than "the state wasting money doing it". Those are the kind of opportunities that would help transform that relationship in our favor.
Poor North Fork is learning this the hard way right now.
It has been said over and over, but I don't know whether it's taken seriously sometimes. Create a positive relationship with your local landmanager. I bet in most cases they would be stoked to work with you, they just have a lot of legitimate concerns and historical evidence of it not working (ie tearing out trails). Starting with smaller projects, mellower trails, maybe even multi-use trails and then enhancing them later as they become more comfortable with things. I remember the first time we had an actual walk through by the Olympia DNR guys, they thought even the easiest stuff was nuts. Since then we've gotten our local guy to get more comfortable with things by showing him videos of people actually riding, and he has passed it on to his higher-ups and they are getting more comfortable with things, and who knows how far it may go.
We've taken out enough things we've built that we don't really want to do that anymore, but it's better to take it out yourself. We've built things, walked them with the land manager, and either he says yeh or neh, but either way it's open and we are willing to bend as much as we expect him too. If it was known that the duval trails were not acceptable, maybe someone else could have volunteered to disassemble the trail rather than "the state wasting money doing it". Those are the kind of opportunities that would help transform that relationship in our favor.
Poor North Fork is learning this the hard way right now.
I've lived all over the US, and this is nothing new.
We're a minority, but since we're a minority who can easily be kicked around, folk like the US Forest Service, the Sierra Club and United States Equestrian Federation can take their clout, their cash and their bull**** facts and ram us right in the ass. They give us places they'd rather piss on then ride, and expect us to be happy with the pittance.
Sometimes, and this is only once in a while, I wish I could justify using their mentalities and devices against them. Wires at horse rider head height, tiger traps, destroying trail sections to make them unhikeable. Does this mean I will do these things? No, if for no other reason that I think we're better than that.
Its a sad state in this country. Power, privilege, popular misconceptions, "family first" and "hippie rights" have started to run amok when it comes to our chosen adventure delusion.
These days I am sort of the mindset of Malcolm X: By any means necessary...
We're a minority, but since we're a minority who can easily be kicked around, folk like the US Forest Service, the Sierra Club and United States Equestrian Federation can take their clout, their cash and their bull**** facts and ram us right in the ass. They give us places they'd rather piss on then ride, and expect us to be happy with the pittance.
Sometimes, and this is only once in a while, I wish I could justify using their mentalities and devices against them. Wires at horse rider head height, tiger traps, destroying trail sections to make them unhikeable. Does this mean I will do these things? No, if for no other reason that I think we're better than that.
Its a sad state in this country. Power, privilege, popular misconceptions, "family first" and "hippie rights" have started to run amok when it comes to our chosen adventure delusion.
These days I am sort of the mindset of Malcolm X: By any means necessary...
Also, I know for a fact that landmanagers cruise this sight, so maybe idiot should be replaced with less enlighted government workers.
They're just protecting their asses from lawsuit happy americans
The problem is that the people who built it had not control. There was a slight relationship being built initially. But things eroded after a gate that was constructed by DNR was constantly being dismantled and destroyed.
Any hope probably eroded from that point on.
That's another problem with free-for-all. i know for a fact one of the main original builders was complaining at other builders that just showed up and changed things. Typical trail braid and shoddy trail building techniques that piss off DNR.
So no communication, no control, doomed.
i'm not tooting my frikkin horn, but i am saying i'm right. i'm right when i say that Colonnade is a KEY example of any possibility of making mountain bike opportunities happen. Duvall is in the rear view mirror for me years ago, and others. You know that quality dirt work looks very similar to the Pump Track at Colonnade. An opportunity for quality craftmenship to be applied to a city park. That park has accounted for alot of the shovel loads.
Support and respect go a long ways, the real players know this. You can get alot further if you can hear beyond the deafening tone of your own whining. Hell i know it's unrealistic, but take just a second and entertain the idea of moving away from bootleg and support where you can, PA, Whimps, BBTC, FTTRC, IMBA, Blue Ribbon Coalition.
For those who are serious in helping keep an eye on Reiter Area in Monroe. It's a DNR area that has real opportunity for gravity. Duthie will turn out to be more South Seatac Flowpark like i would imagine with the terrain. But Reiter has big potential.
Doop dee doop....
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The thing is, this area existed for years, even with some new trails being built...until certain shops started shuttling out there with employees that have done nothing for the trails, not picking up their empty Rolling Rock bottles, let alone never moving a shovel. They drive full size pickups and vans, often with trailers, on busy days with huge logos on the side, garnering more attention than the coming of christ. It's ridiculous some days, and now they've moved on to the next place. parasites.
A couple beater yotas putting around with a few bikes is one thing. A bunch of gomers blaring **** music, driving too fast and taking 20 of their dumbass friends who bring 40 more is another.
Until you know an area can be sustainable and legit - keep that **** low key. DNR officers don't want problems any more than we do, and if they can keep from having their superiors make them shut us down, they've let us know they're more than happy to not take it upon themselves.
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I use to look at our DNR gate as a PIA, but now I appreciate it. I imagine our area would be in the same boat if the gate were not INDESTRUCTABLE!
And it doesn't hurt that there are about 20 people total on the peninsula that like to shuttle.
And it doesn't hurt that there are about 20 people total on the peninsula that like to shuttle.
I agree that shops or teams doing huge shuttle groups, especially advertised ones, do not help the situation at all.
FYI: North Fork is closed to mountain bikes.
Anyone caught riding could be given a ticket. Communication has begun with the DNR. Any riding at this point will jeporidize the relationship building process between local builders and the DNR, as ODS has touched on. Respect for the process is appreciated.
Cheers,
Anyone caught riding could be given a ticket. Communication has begun with the DNR. Any riding at this point will jeporidize the relationship building process between local builders and the DNR, as ODS has touched on. Respect for the process is appreciated.
Cheers,
You're using logic and reason. You have no hope of success.
Just tell them they get a free T-shirt for building.