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"Mini-DH" Tires

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
I'm currently building a mini-DH bike for all-around trail riding, shuttling, and DH. I want to try ghetto tubeless for the first time and I'd love to have a tire that, like the bike, can more or less do it all. Previously I've always run 2.5 DH casing tires. Usually either Maxxis or Specialized Chunders. However, I think that if I could lose some weight in tires but not sacrifice too much in the way of descending characteristics it would make the bike feel a hell of a lot more lively. Is it worth it to cut weight from the tires? If so, what do you recommend? I've been seeing lots of Hutchinson tires lately. I'm riding in loose and loose over hardpack conditions (typical So-cal).
 

Timekiller

Monkey
Oct 9, 2006
697
0
NJ
Just throwing it out there, Maxxis highrollers in 2.35. I see a good amount of people using them here (Diablo) I just ordered a set myself. And they work well with ghetto tubeless.
 
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BlackAthlete

Monkey
Apr 8, 2008
184
0
Well not all of us can be as talented or as lucky as you then. It definitely is not as easy as mounting a normal tubed tire. I've had more problems than I care to recall. Stansplosions, leaking beads, noodly/squirmy tires, it's just not worth it IMO.
 

bushrider

Monkey
Jul 4, 2006
146
0
NYC
I've run 2.35 super tacky and slow reezay maxxis high rollers for DH.
The grip is fine, not really very different to 2.5 maxxis.
The main issue is flats.
I ride diablo a lot which is very rocky.
I find you need around 35psi in the rear tire to prevent flats with dual ply 2.35 maxxis (I'm 190lbs).

I would give Maxxis Minion DHF 2.35 3Cs a try (3Cs roll faster than supertackys).
You could get away with a LUST up front and a 2-ply on the rear.
Thats a lot of weight saved vs 2.5 maxxis dual ply tires.
I would run the DHF front and rear, you want the added traction of the DHF (vs the DHR) as you need to keep the pressure up to stop pinch flats with the 2.35 volume.
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
IMHO, from someone who rides XC and AM more than downhill, you really can't have a 'trail bike' that doubles as a 'shuttle + dh' bike with the same tires. I wouldn't consider running anything smaller than dual ply 2.2 michelins on a lightweight shuttle bike, simply because anything with a lighter casing usually squirms in corners or flats excessively. I also wouldnt consider riding those same tires on a bike that I pedaled for more than 5 miles. Also, anything soft compound sucks for legit trail riding. There are certainly bikes that are capable of both, but to truely handle both disceplins, its going to be most effective to switch tires before shuttling and vise versa for pedaling.
 
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Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
The last bike I had for this exact usage was a Demo 8. Full-on DH spec (2.5" DH tires, 38t chainring, 12-25 cassette, etc.) so any advantage is going to feel like a big change. I think I might go with 2.35" Maxxis tires with a LUST front casing, that sounds like a good combo. I'm not worried about flats too much since I usually run 20 PSI with XC tubes and no problems (except dinged rims).

I know there are some people on here that run single ply Maxxis DH tires for everything. Bullcrew and someone else with a Sunday. I'm a bit skeptical myself as any single-ply tires I've run (even on my Stumpy) have flatted on me at 40 PSI from landing sideways.
 

Orvan

....................
Mar 5, 2002
1,492
2
Califor-N.I.A.
I'm currently building a mini-DH bike for all-around trail riding, shuttling, and DH. I want to try ghetto tubeless for the first time and I'd love to have a tire that, like the bike, can more or less do it all. Previously I've always run 2.5 DH casing tires. Usually either Maxxis or Specialized Chunders. However, I think that if I could lose some weight in tires but not sacrifice too much in the way of descending characteristics it would make the bike feel a hell of a lot more lively. Is it worth it to cut weight from the tires? If so, what do you recommend? I've been seeing lots of Hutchinson tires lately. I'm riding in loose and loose over hardpack conditions (typical So-cal).
On loose stuff, the 2.3 Hutchinson Barracuda digs real good. On hard pack, I like the Piranha in the rear. The 2.3 Cuda as a rear is dependent on the terrain (loose and rocky but not so on hardpack).

Depending on how you ride, I would stay away from single plies on anything beyond xc especially if you plan on running tubeless. I don't get why people are so consumed to run single ply on DH applications, especially on tubeless system. Do they like replacing rims or do they just post their bike pics on the internet next to the digital scale?

Only UST tires and UST system for me.
 

TA..

!
Aug 21, 2007
228
0
Bionics department
Try some of the new MAxxis 2.4 SP or DP ARDENTS perfect for a mini DH bike!

Weight is negligable up front so you could run a 2.5 min up front and 2.4 Ardent in the rear theyre reportedly very fast corner great, 2ply should be tuff enough, 60a SP in rear should take a beating..
 

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,740
470
The Highroller 2.35 LUST only comes in a 70 compound. No good for the front at all. Just run 1ply Highroller 2.5 front and the LUST Highroller 2.35 rear, or dual ply's with XC tubes.
 

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
IMHO, from someone who rides XC and AM more than downhill, you really can't have a 'trail bike' that doubles as a 'shuttle + dh' bike with the same tires. I wouldn't consider running anything smaller than dual ply 2.2 michelins on a lightweight shuttle bike, simply because anything with a lighter casing usually squirms in corners or flats excessively. I also wouldnt consider riding those same tires on a bike that I pedaled for more than 5 miles. Also, anything soft compound sucks for legit trail riding. There are certainly bikes that are capable of both, but to truely handle both disceplins, its going to be most effective to switch tires before shuttling and vise versa for pedaling.
Exactly. One pair for shuttle/dh and another for trail riding. It'll make the bike better for each type of riding with less hassle than dealing with the ghetto tubeless.

I am sick of waiting for friends on rides who have problems with their ghetto setup. Do it right or stick to tubes.
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Meh. Really don't want to be changing tires every ride. Also, my "XC" trails are really the same thing as my DH trails, I just decide to pedal up. So I'm thinking a dual-ply setup with legit Stan's might be my best solution if the "ghetto" setup isn't so great. This is my first time with tubeless so maybe it's not the best time for experimentation.
 

JudgeDH

Chimp
Feb 7, 2008
72
0
Last year I started with ghetto tubeless on nevegal 2-ply 2.5. No problems! (On Mavic Deetraks)

This year I moved to Stans with Maxxis Minion DHF 2.5 on Mavic 721s. Great as of today!

I'm now moving to UST Rims. 819s with highrollers for AM/Mini DH and 823s with DHF 2.5. Way to go! :rockout:
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
What did you decide to do for rims??? FWIW, I have no tused a tube on a MTB for about 5 years...and I have never owned a UST rim.

My little bike (Turner RFX with 5" plates and a Lyric) has plain 'ol single ply maxxis or mich tires on it. DT 5.1 rims with stans and no problems at all. I will say however, that I would not feel to confident riding those rims/tires on a 'real' DH trail. I dont think the rims or tires are up for that kind of abuse.

On the big bike, I have uses 729s and 721s with stans for 5 years. It always has either Mich DH tires (UST obviously) or Maxxis 3C (non-UST) and again never an issue in 5+ years (4 whistler season passes in that time..so it sees some use).

THere seems like a little gap out there for exactly what you are looking for. 2.2 mich/2.35 maxxis (cant get in the USA) DH tires are close and would ovver great grip, but are IMO about 200g to heavy for what you want.
Most single plys dont offer the compounds for grip (well there is super tacky, but that lasts a day maybe) and have such thin sidewalls.

I would love to see a 8-900g version of the Mich DH 24. Versitile tread (cut if needed) awesome traction, and rubber that actually lasts very well for 'soft' or 'slow rebound' rubber......a 1.5 ply.... for heavy trail use, slopestyle, rough 4X etc....I would by some ASAP.

I have heard some good things about the big betty tires. You can get several compounds and they are about 800g.....but this feedback has been from trail riders (and over the web) not DH'ers so I cannot speak to thier relative perspective of 'traction' and 'performance'

.....DH tires spoil you!!!
 

PatBranch

Turbo Monkey
Sep 24, 2004
10,451
9
wine country
I have been running a 2.5 Minion DHF and a nearly bald 2.35 Highroller, both dual ply. They are maxxis, so they are smaller than that of course. I've used that setup at Fontucky, Deer Valley, Mammoth, N* and liked it. They are fairly light as DH tires go and I like how they ride.
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Davep, that's sort of what I feared. I don't think I could go down to a single-ply tire when I'm trying to do everything with one bike and I want to sacrifice very little as far as descending.

Rims are 5.1s.
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Thought I'd update with info.

I decided to order some Specialized Chunder SX tires. They're a lighter-casing version of the Chunder DH but it's not the single-ply either. I'll see how they are and update again.
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
Mark,

next time we ride you'll have to check out the Hutchinson Barrcuda 2.3's.
Rockin grip yo!
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
I would love to see a 8-900g version of the Mich DH 24. Versitile tread (cut if needed) awesome traction, and rubber that actually lasts very well for 'soft' or 'slow rebound' rubber......a 1.5 ply.... for heavy trail use, slopestyle, rough 4X etc....I would by some ASAP.
!!!
I have my very last set of comp 24 lights on my bike right now.
2.2 comp 24 rubber, 850 grams, kevlar bead.
They use the exact same rubber as the DH tires, but the casing is different.
They grip great, but you better run 40 psi for flat protection.
For some reason, Michelin quit making this tire.:twitch:
 

Zark

Hey little girl, do you want some candy?
Oct 18, 2001
6,254
7
Reno 911
pirhannas (or however the hell you spell that) for speed.


I actually just cut all the center knobs off my xc bike tire to accomplish this.
The team just got 2.3 priannahs (sp), 2.35 Toro's and more 2.3 Barracuda's. I haven't gotten my tires yet, but I'll be playing around with my setup soon ;)

I'm a tire WHORE! can't wait to test some new rubber:pirate2:
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
I have my very last set of comp 24 lights on my bike right now.
2.2 comp 24 rubber, 850 grams, kevlar bead.
They use the exact same rubber as the DH tires, but the casing is different.
They grip great, but you better run 40 psi for flat protection.
For some reason, Michelin quit making this tire.:twitch:

I have a set of those from a couple years back (at least that is what they were listed as from QBP) and they are definately not the DH compound....that tire sounded sooo good (they were advertised as a light casing 24..)...then they arived and they were normal silicum rubber......


I was alway under the impresion that QBP was mistaken with the description.....now I am not sure what I actually got....
 

Jeremy R

<b>x</b>
Nov 15, 2001
9,698
1,053
behind you with a snap pop
I have a set of those from a couple years back (at least that is what they were listed as from QBP) and they are definately not the DH compound....that tire sounded sooo good (they were advertised as a light casing 24..)...then they arived and they were normal silicum rubber......


I was alway under the impresion that QBP was mistaken with the description.....now I am not sure what I actually got....
Well, you got shipped the wrong $hit then.
The rubber is the exact same as on the comp 24 2.2 dh tire,
and not even close to the rubber that is their xc tires.
Everybody who has ran these knows this.
Hell, you can even tell by feeling them.
They roll a little slower than trail bike rubber, but the grip is always there.
Sounds like you got shipped a black Hot S.:biggrin:
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
Well, you got shipped the wrong $hit then.
The rubber is the exact same as on the comp 24 2.2 dh tire,
and not even close to the rubber that is their xc tires.
Everybody who has ran these knows this.
Hell, you can even tell by feeling them.
They roll a little slower than trail bike rubber, but the grip is always there.
Sounds like you got shipped a black Hot S.:biggrin:
Yea, I knew as soon as I looked at them that they were not 'as advertised' (I have plenty of 24's here) but they were purchased direct from QBP (wholesale), they were the last two they had, and they were on closeout...so returning them would have been more of a hastle than it was worth. I SURE would have like to have received what I ordered, but they were like $10 each, so I cant complain tooooo much...


I have to say, that the rubber descriptions on the Mich site leave a lot to the imagination. THey call ALL of their rubber 'soft'. Since they do not list durometer or a name for their DH rubber, I did not know for sure if they (the 24 light) was supposed to be 'DH soft' or 'trail tire soft'......for instance, they dont specifically say if the DH 15 is 'soft rubber' same with the Mud 3's.....they make dual compound tires, but they dont say WHAT compounds...

THey are French, so I certainly dont expect them to listen to outside feedback, but Mich could do SOOOOO much better in MTB sales with a few new/additional tread designs (they have at least 10 differently named tires with the exact same '24' tread) and some real info on their site. They certainly make a good tire, and their DH compound grips as well as anything else, yet lasts much longer.....but they insist on clasifying their tires so oddly.
Like the 16: "excels in tight corners.....grips in extreme conditions" WTF does that mean???
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
Michelin's completely whack classifications make me not buy them, although I ran a 24 back in the day and wore it out pretty quick.
 

Gopher

Monkey
Aug 26, 2007
107
0
Spokane WA
ive been running a 2.25 intense system 4 without any problems on my mini dh enduro ive only had one flat so far this season and it was totally my fault for picking a sketchy line. Im running a 2.35 nevegal up front and im not impressed at all with it.
 

Castle

Turbo Monkey
Jun 10, 2002
1,446
0
VA
THere seems like a little gap out there for exactly what you are looking for. 2.2 mich/2.35 maxxis (cant get in the USA) DH tires are close and would ovver great grip, but are IMO about 200g to heavy for what you want.
Most single plys dont offer the compounds for grip (well there is super tacky, but that lasts a day maybe) and have such thin sidewalls.

I would love to see a 8-900g version of the Mich DH 24. Versitile tread (cut if needed) awesome traction, and rubber that actually lasts very well for 'soft' or 'slow rebound' rubber......a 1.5 ply.... for heavy trail use, slopestyle, rough 4X etc....I would by some ASAP.

.....DH tires spoil you!!!
I agree 100% and have been thinking about this lately. There is definitely a gap. I pedal around 2.5 DHF's and would def. like a "1.5 ply" somewhere between full on dh tire and floppy single ply tire. A couple of the trails I ride weekly wont allow me to run single ply, I tried running them at 45-50psi to avoid flatting but then you have no grip and the bike is all over the place, dh tires def. spoil you!!!
 

nickfr2000

Chimp
Sep 28, 2007
50
0
I've got Continental Digga 2.5 up front and Continental Diesel Protection 2.5 at the back of my mini-dh bike. Diesels are single ply kevlar bead while the Diggas are 2 ply wire bead with black chili compound. The Diesels are light enough for climbing and while the Diggas have really good grip of DH. I haveXC tubes at the front and back to reduce weight and run 25psi front / 35psi rear.

 

Gopher

Monkey
Aug 26, 2007
107
0
Spokane WA
I agree 100% and have been thinking about this lately. There is definitely a gap. I pedal around 2.5 DHF's and would def. like a "1.5 ply" somewhere between full on dh tire and floppy single ply tire. A couple of the trails I ride weekly wont allow me to run single ply, I tried running them at 45-50psi to avoid flatting but then you have no grip and the bike is all over the place, dh tires def. spoil you!!!
True that i ran 2.5 minions forever but this intense system 4 has been so good, i would really look into trying it out especially since i run them at 40psi even and it just hooks up all day long you wont be disappointed.
 

TA..

!
Aug 21, 2007
228
0
Bionics department
I agree 100% and have been thinking about this lately. There is definitely a gap. I pedal around 2.5 DHF's and would def. like a "1.5 ply" somewhere between full on dh tire and floppy single ply tire. A couple of the trails I ride weekly wont allow me to run single ply, I tried running them at 45-50psi to avoid flatting but then you have no grip and the bike is all over the place, dh tires def. spoil you!!!

I think its been said before oin this thread, Maxxis Ardents!! 2.4 /2.2 theyre much higher volume than normal maxxis measuring standards and come in single or 2ply, I think the 2plys were under 1000grams by memory but don't qoute me on that!

Im being sent some so wil weigh em when they arrive!
 

Bicyclist

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2004
10,152
2
SB
I've got Continental Digga 2.5 up front and Continental Diesel Protection 2.5 at the back of my mini-dh bike. Diesels are single ply kevlar bead while the Diggas are 2 ply wire bead with black chili compound. The Diesels are light enough for climbing and while the Diggas have really good grip of DH. I haveXC tubes at the front and back to reduce weight and run 25psi front / 35psi rear.

I think our ideas of Mini-DH are a little different...


Do those Ardents work well in the loose stuff?
 

rockwool

Turbo Monkey
Apr 19, 2004
2,658
0
Filastin
Davep, that's sort of what I feared. I don't think I could go down to a single-ply tire when I'm trying to do everything with one bike and I want to sacrifice very little as far as descending.

Rims are 5.1s.
You've definately got a rim with a good weight for what you do (depending on your weight and style of course). A light rim with 2-ply 2.35" tyres sounds like what you need. 850ish gram tyres will definately not be good for your aplication, but you might get away with a reinforced UST 1-ply (if the terrain is smooth, but I think you need more beef).
 

Castle

Turbo Monkey
Jun 10, 2002
1,446
0
VA
True that i ran 2.5 minions forever but this intense system 4 has been so good, i would really look into trying it out especially since i run them at 40psi even and it just hooks up all day long you wont be disappointed.
What are the trails like you are riding? Hardpack? Loose? Rocky? The tread looks like it would roll really well but I'd worry about it in rooted/rocky/loose corners...

Thanks for the suggestion, it def. looks like a good tire, not sure it'd work for my application but does look good.... I may have to give them a try on my xc bike..


I think its been said before oin this thread, Maxxis Ardents!! 2.4 /2.2 theyre much higher volume than normal maxxis measuring standards and come in single or 2ply, I think the 2plys were under 1000grams by memory but don't qoute me on that!

Im being sent some so wil weigh em when they arrive!
Are the sidewalls on those (1-ply version) the same as the ones on the Advantage? The Advantage sidewall rips super easy.

I do like the tread design, looks similar to the DHF's with a lil variation/added knob between the cornering and braking knobs
 
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