Rearward travel affecting geometry?

P.T.W said:

Eh?Please explain??????

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If we're talking about slamming a burmed corner, then as both wheels move backwards in their travel(forks compressin+rearward rear wheel travel)the riders COG is moved forward in relation to the wheels, the back wheel has less weight on it, and therefore less traction/feel, as the suspension rebounds the bikes wheels move forward in relation to the general mass(frame+rider). I think this is all a near negligable amount though, and the main part that can be felt is the rear not feeling as weighted and less rear traction/feel.
High pivots just don't feel like they turn quicker if you slam them into corners like low pivots do, because on a low pivot the wheelbase and chainstay are shortening.
I'm sure having the riders weight shifted forward counter acts the lengthening chainstays a bit by making the fork dive more steepening steering and shortening wheelbase but this is nit picking, and bike set up would make much more difference, or tyre pressure or skin suitnot

I get all that but i answered a post about high pivots abilty to pump terrain......not there cornering ability

P.T.W said:

I get all that but i answered a post about high pivots abilty to pump terrain......not there cornering ability

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Ok well tell me in your own words what's going on when you "pump" your bicycle over bumps or rolling terrain?

anyway it's just my idea about the pump performance of a high pivot bike, need to take a bike of each type to a bmx track and do some "scientific test runs"

P.T.W said:

I get all that but i answered a post about high pivots abilty to pump terrain......not there cornering ability

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Sorry, I confussed myself off topic:

dhkid said:

flymybike, i think the bcd bike has really short chain stays too, under 17.

i think riding style plays an important part on whether you will get along with a high pivot bike. the thing that annoys me is that you cant pump the terrain as well as a lower pivot bike. but then again it plows so well, you dont really need to work the terrain.

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Your right BCD does have a bike under 17" but I don't think anyone but Alex and mayby some of his friends have them. I rode his 2X4 and thought it was one of the coolest bikes I'd been on. I saw Sanjay sp? on a BCD for a while that had a 16" stay, SICK!!!

Riding style plays a huge role and the terrain you ride on a regular basis plays a even bigger role. If your riding smooth trail there really is not much need for rearward. I ride in Utah, Wyoming, Nevada and Colorado mostly and it is great in those areas because, generally speeking, it's not smooth trail. I took a trip to BC this spring and rode my Jedi about 1/2 the time. There are crazy rough trails there but alot of smooth, buffed out trails too. The rest of the time I rode a CanDiggle because it climbs great and has a conventional wheel path for slower speeds, jumping and pedal kicks. Worked great on Seymour and Frome but Cyprus is Jedi country.

As far as pumping goes, same deal, it it's smooth with a low or mid pivot, you can use your weight and momentium to propell you down the back side but the up side will slow you down more. If it's bumpy with a high pivot, you can still push down the back side (maybe not quite as effectively) but the upside doesn't slow you down nearly as much. Every bump is trying to slow you down and theres hundreds if not thousands of bumps on every trail. Turns, not quite so many.

As you can see I like the rearward wheelpath feeling, the confadence and ability to hold speed better. I've been riding this kind of bike (as well as anything I can get my hands on) since 1999 and I'm convinced but everyone has there own preference. Just go ride a few and don't do it in a parking lot, do it somewhere that you know the trail and it scares you. That's where these bikes shine.

i just got my jedi in today and just built it up a few minutes ago(just the frame)

it says that the rear wheel will move 2.5 inches back but from a sitting on floor and lookin at it-i cant notice it, it seems like it goes back a little bit at most

did i fall for marketing bs?

either way attention to details is incredable

demo 9 said:

did i fall for marketing bs?

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possibly, i think you should send it to me for further evaluation....

been riding my Jedi for around 1 month now and it's amazing

great on the bumpy stuff for sure but i'm cornering better than i ever have now, it works very well on the tight corners

actually better than my Uzzi, Glory, 7 point or 6 point i've had in the past

P.T.W said:

That would only push the bike forward if it was a high pivot with a "conventional" drivetrain (ie no idler/gbox etc etc) as the chain pull under compression drives the bike forward.
With a idler/gbox set up to minimise chain pull(like most of the bikes mentiond in this thread) lengthening stays with no induced chain pull aint going to push nothing forward

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I think he was talking more about the tyre force vector from a high pivot being closer to parallel/coincident with the swingarm on the downside of a roller, and thus putting more force into propelling you forwards rather than compressing your suspension as you pump. Personally I think it's a pretty negligible difference compared to the other distinct differences between high and low pivot bikes.