UCI bans skinsuits?

Can anyone who is a scholar of racing history give an example of an instance where someone wearing a skinsuit won by such a slim margin that the suit could be credited? I think the problem with coming up with such an example is that in DH racing there are so many factors it would be hard to give that credit to a skinsuit alone. Did the losing rider have a slight line difference that cost .1 seconds? Did they pedal a little less in one section?

I think it's the riders choice and it should be left alone. As someone has already said, if you're going to regulate that miniscule advantage what's next? Tire size? Suspension travel/type?


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gemini2k said:

See Formula 1 and how they adjust rules all the time to reduce the cost of the sport but maintain (near) identical competitiveness.

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Except that the only thing that has changed in Formula 1 is what areas of development the money is going into. Budgets of the top teams have continued on unchanged, although you could argue that the grid is closer than ever before, especially with the Monza result.

In downhill though? If a skinsuit is faster, that's what they should be wearing. This is the highest level of the sport and if there is an advantage to be gained by being unfashionable then the riders should suck it up and do it.

Skinsuits can be a huge advantage on some courses, like Ft William or Mont Ste Anne. You are taking 5-8 seconds at Ft William.

Lex said:

Can anyone who is a scholar of racing history give an example of an instance where someone wearing a skinsuit won by such a slim margin that the suit could be credited? I think the problem with coming up with such an example is that in DH racing there are so many factors it would be hard to give that credit to a skinsuit alone. Did the losing rider have a slight line difference that cost .1 seconds? Did they pedal a little less in one section?

I think it's the riders choice and it should be left alone. As someone has already said, if you're going to regulate that miniscule advantage what's next? Tire size? Suspension travel/type?


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Didn't Fabien Barel win Grouse in 2002 or 2003 by .01 second or something.

UCI is more worried about the image. they did this a few years back when everyone was wearing skinsuits and the dh image took a beating as being downhill xc. it also would not shock me if dh specific clothing companies are poking UCI in the back reminding them

dh and xc has always been a different ends of the spectrum and this just blurs it and some people can't handle it. It sucks when you are almost forced to wear one because on some courses it could be an advantage and with 1-5 being within 1-3 seconds......

ebarker9 said:

Except that the only thing that has changed in Formula 1 is what areas of development the money is going into. Budgets of the top teams have continued on unchanged, although you could argue that the grid is closer than ever before, especially with the Monza result.

In downhill though? If a skinsuit is faster, that's what they should be wearing. This is the highest level of the sport and if there is an advantage to be gained by being unfashionable then the riders should suck it up and do it.

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No. That´s not what it´s about, actually. Because the competition ALWAYS comes down to skills/fitness/preparation/technology with or without the spandex.

At the end, riders choice.

When it comes down to technical equipment progression, it's contributing to the sport in a way that is good for spectators and sponsors.
Skinsuit do nothing. There is no relative difference becasue of the spandex between riders, but it is if bikes are getting better and riders keep charging.


Again, very easy.

it also image, I have not heard anyone saying they want that skinsuit so and so wears while royal, troy lee, etc benefits from and sponsors said dh riders.

UCI also probably wants to avoid, he won by a skinsuit and help sponsors out and just x them.

bikes and such is different, patents etc, and you still have to ride it down the mountain, any re-re can put on a skinsuit.

It is a pure speed sport. Do Ski racers where baggy snowboard clothes? They'd certainly be more in style if they did didn't they?

If you think ski racing takes no skill, you need a reality check.

I know of one team that will have skinsuits next year just to piss people off. (Not Mojo). I am 100% in support of them.

as soon as they start putting rocks and trees in the ski course, as well as gates then you can compare them.

last time I raced I remember going into the woods and not just staying on the groomers. ski racing takes made skill because of the speed.

a team wearing skinsuits to piss people off could explain why UCI is trying to X them


wether it is right or wrong..........................

Lex said:

Can anyone who is a scholar of racing history give an example of an instance where someone wearing a skinsuit won by such a slim margin that the suit could be credited? I think the problem with coming up with such an example is that in DH racing there are so many factors it would be hard to give that credit to a skinsuit alone. Did the losing rider have a slight line difference that cost .1 seconds? Did they pedal a little less in one section?

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Barel took the win at Grouse Mtn in 2001 and beat Kovarik by half the length of a bee's d*ck, barel had a skin suit and Kovarik did not (he started wearing one after than though). At Ste. Anne in '07 Barel put on a skin suit and no one else did, he took the last podium spot ahead of Rennie by about the same margin.

this debate is stupid. the only guys arguing over it are the ones who don't actually race on the world cup circuit or make a living from riding their bikes.

No way it´s "Pure speed sport". Speedskiing is pure speed sport.

There actually is nothing in skiing that is a fair comparison to DH.

General Lee said:

Barel took the win at Grouse Mtn in 2001 and beat Kovarik by half the length of a bee's d*ck, barel had a skin suit and Kovarik did not (he started wearing one after than though). At Ste. Anne in '07 Barel put on a skin suit and no one else did, he took the last podium spot ahead of Rennie by about the same margin.

this debate is stupid. the only guys arguing over it are the ones who don't actually race on the world cup circuit or make a living from riding their bikes.

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Or homophobes.

I sure hope they will not ban them as I have just bought 3 new ones.

This debate is why UCI is even thinking about it. the majority of people that buy the clothes, equip, etc wll never wear one. they want to keep the sport closer to the roots of the people that support it.(or so sponsors etc may say) hence the issue, again wether it is right or wrong.

pelo said:

No way it´s "Pure speed sport". Speedskiing is pure speed sport.

There actually is nothing in skiing that is a fair comparison to DH.

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This is clearly coming from someone who has never ski raced before. :huh:

bikephans said:

This debate is why UCI is even thinking about it. the majority of people that buy the clothes, equip, etc wll never wear one. they want to keep the sport closer to the roots of the people that support it. hence the issue, again wether it is right or wrong.

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BS. The UCI is thinking about it because a few big name riders complained to them about it. End of story.

that would be part of it, and they riders complained as well as their clothing sponsors. sponsors that dump money to..................

UCI is very worried about image since we are going down the skinsuit path again

Transcend said:

Or homophobes.

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Whoa, easy there... I rip on gay people as competently as anyone else here but that doesn't mean I'm against wearing skinsuits!

Udi said:

Whoa, easy there... I rip on gay people as competently as anyone else here but that doesn't mean I'm against wearing skinsuits!

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Bwahaha.

Transcend said:

This is clearly coming from someone who has never ski raced before. :huh:

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I´ve been more on skiis than a crackwhore on court shoes.
What about them skills you were just preaching about? Eh?

bikephans said:

that would be part of it, and they riders complained as well as their clothing sponsors. sponsors that dump money to...

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Ok 1 think you have to learn about the UCI, they do not care about downhill. There is no worry about image from the UCi themselves.

Also, if riders get money from clothing sponsors, they can wear those clothes. No one is forcing them to wear a skinsuit. You can also custom print skinsuits you know...

pelo said:

No. That´s not what it´s about, actually. Because the competition ALWAYS comes down to skills/fitness/preparation/technology with or without the spandex.

At the end, riders choice.

When it comes down to technical equipment progression, it's contributing to the sport in a way that is good for spectators and sponsors.
Skinsuit do nothing. There is no relative difference becasue of the spandex between riders, but it is if bikes are getting better and riders keep charging.


Again, very easy.

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I agree, it's the riders choice. I just think it's silly in a high stakes sport to ignore a competitive advantage because you think that it makes you look less cool. If the UCI wants to ban them, I don't really agree, but I don't have a big problem with that. (Because the comparison was made before) F1 has done this for years. They don't run open wheeled cars because that's the fastest way around the track, they do it because the image of F1 is closely associated with it being an open wheeled series. You can bet that if they changed this regulation, drivers wouldn't be refusing to run closed wheels cars out of fashion.

correct, they do not care but if some big birds chirp in their ear loud enough, they want to shut them up. I should have stated this is more rider/sponsor driven.(know alot of guys at 661 and other companies).


also if royal clothing stamped it's name on a skinsuit, well that is not what they want......

I heard the same argument years ago when skinsuits came, concern about the look of the sport, image etc.

elRey said:

loose clothing didn't cause those people to crash.

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pelo said:

True. They were all rotating counter-clockwise. No need for slim jerseys there. Maybe a training camp with Greg Minaar would do the trick?

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Your right it wasnt the jersey, it was the 50 plus MPH cross wind that day. I ran that race, it was NOT easy to stay on the bike, tighter shorts and a jersey helps a bunch. That day it was hard just to stand at all






EDIT. I just read through the thread. I cant belive everyone here is doing all teh same crap again. This is at least teh secodn therad now

http://www.ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=203906&highlight=Skinsuit+thread

You want a skinsuit, wear one, if you dont want one, DONT WEAR ONE, it isnt that much of an iunfaiur advantage, Ive seen someone with with, and someone win without. If you feel your pissing your money away.....Change sports.


This crap about banning Skinsuits hase nothing at all to do with advantages, why cant anyone get that past there melons in the first place. I love how it is always the guys People are comparing. Its all about a bunch of Homophobes scared they are going to see a little curve and get excited. I have raced in spandex before, given it was padded spandex but still, and the advantage I got that day sure as hell wasnt aerodynamics<Not tryin to kill that idea.> But it was about heat, it was hot, Spandex breathes better by itself.

Funny how I have never heard anyone complaining about Marla Streb wearing a skinsuit, Or Missy G, or Anne Caroline ETC. They wear a skinsuit and we like it, Greg or Sam wears one, and it should be banned.... WTF.......... Just F*cking ride

I don't race to pay bills or to win sponsors or even really impress my friends, I usually race just to see how fast I can go and to have fun. I will probably never wear a skinsuit. If someone in my class beats me by 1/100th of a second or something because they chose to wear a skinsuit, congratulations to them; I'm still just out to have fun.

If I were making my living racing or trying to get to the point where I would make a living racing, I'd be doing everything I could get get an advantage while keeping my sponsors happy. I'm pretty sure Troy Lee, Royal or whoever would be plenty fine with me wearing a skinsuit with their name on it on courses that needed if I was always on the podium. If they wanted to show off their latest and greatest clothes, that's what photo shoots are for.

Last I checked Troy Lee, 661, Royal were clothing companies something tells me they could make skinsuits. If they made skinsuits they could sell more product. The loose clothing for the recreational rider and training days, and skinsuits for the race days.

what is the matter with the uci people. even bruce lee and uma thurman wear them!!



besides, it is about running against the clock. right?

I could be remembering this wrong....but didn't some of the guys rock TLD skinsuits back in the day?

It's all about going fast. Personally can't stand to wear a skinsuit, but i wear one in TTs and on the track because it's faster, and it's a race.

Zutroy, roadies have no skills, so they can wear skinsuits. Duh.

Transcend said:

Zutroy, roadies have no skills, so they can wear skinsuits. Duh.

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That's right....my bad........

The 2 coolest pictures of a DH racer I ever remember seeing are the classic berm shot of Palmer at Big Bear and the cover of Mountain Bike years ago with Tomac turning from right to left across a traverse wearing a skinsuit. I remember buying that magaznie because of the cover shot. He was screaming fast and I forgot he was even wearing a body condom.

I also found DIRT magazine sitting in the motocross shelves once. It was Sven's cover shot of Rennie from Earthed I believe. They just thought it was another moto mag.

Tomac's full on black suit was pretty bad ass looking even for a skin suit.

Zutroy said:

Tomac's full on black suit was pretty bad ass looking even for a skin suit.

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So was his star spangled eagle one on giant that Matt Lanning sold a photo of to RS to make what was probably the most iconic poster of the era for DH.

Cough, cough...

Skinsuits are desperately hanging on to the remnants of the past.

(putting my body armour on again...)

Transcend said:

So was his star spangled eagle one on giant that Matt Lanning sold a photo of to RS to make what was probably the most iconic poster of the era for DH.

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maybe it was just his gnar teeth that made pics of him such winners.

Palmer had O face /gnar teeth combos.

pelo said:

No way it´s "Pure speed sport".

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Ok. Now back this up.


Last time I checked the results of a World Cup DH race (or any DH race for that matter), all the results were posted ranked by TIME. I didn't see any columns for "style points" or "bike dopeness" or "amount of trash talk on the internet". All I saw was a rider name, a number plate, their team, and the TIME they posted for the track.

In a sport where time is what you are being judged by, the way to have the fastest time is by having the highest overall speed. If you really need me to, I can get out my high school physics books for the equations of how time, speed, and distance are related.


Yes, there are a lot of skills that are needed to compete at the highest level of DH - bike handling skills, good physical fitness, good cardiovascular, the ability to not only pick, but hold the right line... I could go on. But what these all add up to is being able to shave seconds off the clock.

jonKranked said:

Ok. Now back this up.


Last time I checked the results of a World Cup DH race (or any DH race for that matter), all the results were posted ranked by TIME. I didn't see any columns for "style points" or "bike dopeness" or "amount of trash talk on the internet". All I saw was a rider name, a number plate, their team, and the TIME they posted for the track.

In a sport where time is what you are being judged by, the way to have the fastest time is by having the highest overall speed. If you really need me to, I can get out my high school physics books for the equations of how time, speed, and distance are related.


Yes, there are a lot of skills that are needed to compete at the highest level of DH - bike handling skills, good physical fitness, good cardiovascular, the ability to not only pick, but hold the right line... I could go on. But what these all add up to is being able to shave seconds off the clock.

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I will. And I already did.

Your last written piece sums it up real good.
Seconds off the clock is only a reality on tracks like, for instance, Fort William. Tracks are supposed to get more challenging technically with better bikes and the new generation of riders. Progression.
Why do you think skinsuits are a sensetive topic in Canberra? Or Fort William? Because that´s where it matters. If some jackass shows up with spandex and is doing a couple of seconds on a rider that is obviously slower than he or she... Well, it´s lack of respect for your competitors!
And this is where UCI comes in... Riders want restrictions on this. And if they want skinsuits, fine! But they obviously don´t... Riders choice.

Thread says, "UCI bans skinsuit?" That´s where this discussion is at, not physics books, homophobic issues or personal preferences.

Hmmm, maybe they just want to prevent this from happening in DH:

pelo said:

Seconds off the clock is only a reality on tracks like, for instance, Fort William.

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I'm not talking in terms of quantity of time, its the fastest rider down the mountain that wins. Whether its milliseconds or full seconds is irrelevant to the point I'm trying to convey.

pelo said:

Tracks are supposed to get more challenging technically with better bikes and the new generation of riders. Progression.

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This doesn't change the fact that its the rider with the fastest time that wins.

pelo said:

If some jackass shows up with spandex and is doing a couple of seconds on a rider that is obviously slower than he or she... Well, it´s lack of respect for your competitors!

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How is that a lack of respect? Skinsuits are currently allowed within the rules. If you choose not to utilize what's allowed within the rules, then you're only handicapping yourself.

pelo said:

And this is where UCI comes in... Riders want restrictions on this. And if they want skinsuits, fine! But they obviously don´t... Riders choice.

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Precisely. If the majority of the riders want them banned, then they should petition the UCI. The UCI shouldn't change the rules because a handful of people are flapping their jaws and have their panties in a bundle. The same logic could apply to suspension... think about how absurd it would be it only a handful a people squawked loud enough that full suspension is an unfair advantage, and the UCI actually took their complaint seriously enough that they were considering banning suspension.