Who says you can't have electronic suspension? They allow electronic shiftingyou're not allowed to race with electronic suspension or a motor are you?
Who says you can't have electronic suspension? They allow electronic shiftingyou're not allowed to race with electronic suspension or a motor are you?
Ha, not for long.Who says you can't have electronic suspension? They allow electronic shifting
I bet they don't ban it, Shimano and Campy have too much cash tied up in it. But god forbid we run discs on our cyclocross bikesHa, not for long.
Not that I want to get too involved in this debate....but one note: that study is almost assuredly comparing the time saved with a skinsuit vs. a standard road racing setup of lycra shorts and a tight jersey. The time difference between those options is likely to be much less than the time difference between a skinsuit and moto gear. It may also be that the upright riding position on a DH bike means a greater frontal area- wind resistance is then a bigger part of the equation.I wonder about your time gap.
Knowing alot about road racing and time trialling, one basic study: http://www.sheldonbrown.com/rinard/aero/aerodynamics.htm, lists the average gain on a 40km time trial (where a rider is averaging just 37kph), gains 29 seconds, or .72 seconds per km.
Fort Bill was 2.82km, and a gain of 7 seconds is 2.48 seconds a km. The winner this year averaged 36kph.
I can see how he might gain a second on a long course which is easily a winning margin. I don't see how anyone could gain 5-7 seconds though
Fashion show... Haha. That´s quite funny. It´s not like skinsuit-supporters think it´s ugly. Waiting for a medal or something for wearing it?I think one major point is being overlooked here...
Bottom line, downhill racing is a competitive sport. Not a fashion show.
Man that is such a Bull **** ruleI bet they don't ban it, Shimano and Campy have too much cash tied up in it. But god forbid we run discs on our cyclocross bikes
Then why do racerboiz get so pissed when jean-clad freehuckers make fun of their matching kits?:huh:hate to break it to you, but every competitive sport that has achieved mainstream success is, in fact, a fashion show.
F*ck no. 29" wheels are for kooks.
Skinsuit or no, it is downhill MOUNTAIN bike racing. You need gears and 2 x 26" wheels.
You think skinsuits look retarded? Wait until Joe Average flicks TV channels and sees a bunch of dorks racing whatever frankenbike they've made up.
I reckon DH MTB should have the same equipment and gear code as is used in BMX. Wear whatever you want so long as you're adequately protected.
actually, we'll be one step closer to watching races that look exactly like the ones we watch now. As for the China comment, give me a break. DH racing is probably the least regulated cycling discipline in existence. And besides, if it was a race run by China everyone else would be in moto gear and the chinese athletes would be in lycra. everyone would know they were breaking the rules but no one would be able to do anything about it. oh yeah, and all the Chinese downhillers would be 16 even though the UCI minimum age is 17
whose standard? i don't feel the need to conform to someone else's sense of aesthetics; style is subjective.Motoclothes is the standard, get over it.
your point being?Times change, Jonny-T is not on the cover of the magazines anymore.
You are so ghey if you think that is a rad photo.
yup. wicked racing. freecaster is the best thing to happen to dh in a while (assuming they iron out the technical glitches).xy9ine...
Did you watch the world cup on Freecaster? It´s bloody fun.
Do you seriously not understand the real issue here? It'd not about how much faster the skinsuit makes you, its about spending money to gain an advantage that has nothing to do with skill.Having a time trial based speed sport where rider don;t care about aerodynamics is ridiculous.
I completely understand it. I've been around the Dh community an awful long time. It has nothing to do with $. It has to do with the fact that it is a speed sport and you should take every advantage you have to push the sport to be faster.Do you seriously not understand the real issue here? It'd not about how much faster the skinsuit makes you, its about spending money to gain an advantage that has nothing to do with skill.
The biggest point is being overlooked, DH racing isn't formula 1 racing! It's not done by a team of professionals with $500 million budgets who's sole JOB it is is to make the fastest car on the planet. DH racing is done mostly by people who do it as a HOBBY for FUN, and don't get paid to do it.......So stop comparing a small fringe racing sport, who's cost already gets in the way of a lot of people racing, to a other world class, overly funded racing sports. I'd imagine 95% of the people racing DH at WC cups don't wanna have to worry about wearing a skinsuit to have a prayer of winning. Maybe sam or fabian don't care but, they are a small fraction of the people racing. And WC racing doesn't exist only because of the top 10, it exsist because of all the other 150 or whoever who race that weekendI think one major point is being overlooked here...
Bottom line, downhill racing is a competitive sport. Not a fashion show.
riding a track like ft william 5-8 secs faster does require sharper reaction times and skills. at last years worlds Rachel crashed in practice and observed that the reason was because she was going so much faster in her skinsuit.Do you seriously not understand the real issue here? It'd not about how much faster the skinsuit makes you, its about spending money to gain an advantage that has nothing to do with skill.
Have you ever raced at Ft William, Ste Anne, Livigno? Trust me, those suits make a huge difference at those places.I can see trying to gain every advantage as possible but all the other down hill speed sports that use skin suits like down hill skiing, boardercross, and even road racing to meseem to be in more of a wide open atmosphere where wind and resistance could play more of a factor. And, just asking here but are those other sports dealing with a fairly faster avg. speed? I mean, yes there are a lot of times when you're wide open ripping full bore but there are also a lot of times when you're slow and tech. I just feel the skin suit doesn't play enough of a factor or you probably would have more dudes in tights. The slight, slight advantage it might have isn't enough to out way the cool factor of wearing a tighter fitting pair of race pants and jersey. And why not be the only gravity sport not willing to travel into the funny zone of race attire? At least most riders are wearing tighter gear and not going full free rider baggy.
keep the suits on the snow and pavement.
But who knows, 10 yrs from now even beginner and sport riders will be showing up at the local race with florescent green suits. 12 green suits huddled around the camp fire Saturday evening drinking a beer remembering there lines of the day just waiting to get out there Sunday and taking on the hill one more time for race day. Hell yeah green suits.
I haven't been or raced at any of those locations. I don't know, if you were to research results i would think the suits where not always the fastest of the day all the time. You're right though, the suits could make a difference but if it does, when are the pro's gonna drop the hammer and just say look fellas, if you're not in a suit, you're not riding hard enough. I want to see commercials and magazine adds endorsing the suit.Have you ever raced at Ft William, Ste Anne, Livigno? Trust me, those suits make a huge difference at those places.
You don't need to do the research. The advantages of wearing tight clothing over something loose and flopping has been known for a long time.I haven't been or raced at any of those locations. I don't know, if you were to research results i would think the suits where not always the fastest of the day all the time. You're right though, the suits could make a difference but if it does, when are the pro's gonna drop the hammer and just say look fellas, if you're not in a suit, you're not riding hard enough. I want to see commercials and magazine adds endorsing the suit.
serious question now. Do the top guys ever do any extensive testing in those things. Like say riding a timed run on a certain track geared up in the usual attire like the race pant and jersey and then, immediately after, gear down and slip into the suit and go up and do it again? Just some comparative research.
I'm still not convinced with the trail layouts, speed and the time spent at top speed, on dh tracks the suit would be an advantage.You don't need to do the research. The advantages of wearing tight clothing over something loose and flopping has been known for a long time.
Then you my son need to start looking up information on aerodynamics.I'm still not convinced with the trail layouts, speed and the time spent at top speed, on dh tracks the suit would be an advantage.
Yes, they have. Skinsuits at Ft William are worth about 6-8 seconds depending what team you talk to.I haven't been or raced at any of those locations. I don't know, if you were to research results i would think the suits where not always the fastest of the day all the time. You're right though, the suits could make a difference but if it does, when are the pro's gonna drop the hammer and just say look fellas, if you're not in a suit, you're not riding hard enough. I want to see commercials and magazine adds endorsing the suit.
serious question now. Do the top guys ever do any extensive testing in those things. Like say riding a timed run on a certain track geared up in the usual attire like the race pant and jersey and then, immediately after, gear down and slip into the suit and go up and do it again? Just some comparative research.
That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you spend $7500 on a DH bike, that's an advantage over a $1500 DH bike. A XTR drivetrain will outperform Alivio for a few hundred $$ more. If you race road or XC, spending $200 on good clipless pedals will make you faster than if you get $20 toe clips. Shaving grams, cutting tires, getting tire pressure right, and tuning a drivetrain are all things that have nothing to do with skill but give you advantages.Do you seriously not understand the real issue here? It'd not about how much faster the skinsuit makes you, its about spending money to gain an advantage that has nothing to do with skill.
The main difference between Formula 1 and Dh is that money can't buy you a win in DH. You could have the lightest, sweetest, most decked out bike in the history of the world, but the the RIDER in the saddle isn't skilled and in top physical condition, it doesn't matter. I've got $5 that says if you put Hill, Peat, or Minaar on a clapped out Schwinn Straight8 from the last century they'd still wind up in the top 10, probably even top 5. Formula 1 you put a good driver in a bad car they'd be lucky to be in the top 50% of the field. Yes I understand that Formula 1 Driving takes a high degree of skill and years of practice, but that doesn't change the fact that there is much more emphasis placed on the vehicle than the person piloting it.The biggest point is being overlooked, DH racing isn't formula 1 racing! It's not done by a team of professionals with $500 million budgets who's sole JOB it is is to make the fastest car on the planet. DH racing is done mostly by people who do it as a HOBBY for FUN, and don't get paid to do it.......So stop comparing a small fringe racing sport, who's cost already gets in the way of a lot of people racing, to a other world class, overly funded racing sports. I'd imagine 95% of the people racing DH at WC cups don't wanna have to worry about wearing a skinsuit to have a prayer of winning. Maybe sam or fabian don't care but, they are a small fraction of the people racing. And WC racing doesn't exist only because of the top 10, it exsist because of all the other 150 or whoever who race that weekend
No, and no. Yes, an XTR drivetrain will out perform an Alivio drivetrain but not by leaps and bounds. If properly setup performance differences won't be night and day, but what you're really paying for is lighter parts. That's all.That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard. If you spend $7500 on a DH bike, that's an advantage over a $1500 DH bike. A XTR drivetrain will outperform Alivio for a few hundred $$ more.
That's exactly my point.....but that doesn't change the fact that there is much more emphasis placed on the vehicle than the person piloting it.
Transcend, I absolutely believe this time advantage to be true. One thing I'll add to this: it appears to me that a very large component of this time advantage is likely due to the resolution of the headwinds the riders face. As Zutroy graciously pointed out, the resistance due to wind is a function of the of the velocity squared. Just remember that "velocity" as it relates to aerodynamic resistance is based on the sum of the rider velocity, V, plus headwind, Vh, i.e. (V+Vh) squared. In the video's of Ft Bill (I've never been there!) that I've seen, there are some substantial headwinds riders are facing. A rider going 20mph facing a 20mph headwind is effectively going 40mph as far as the wind resistance is concerned. This means that the combined resistance is four times greater than that of a rider in no head wind. A 40mph headwind yields NINE time the wind resistance due to rider speed alone! This is where I suspect the major component of the advantage is held. Again, I'm certainly not disagreeing that science shows a marked advantage, just pointing out an observation of Ft. Bill.Yes, they have. Skinsuits at Ft William are worth about 6-8 seconds depending what team you talk to.
I think you mean Wet Screams, not swamp things. Honestly, if they did implement this rule, it would only affect a handful of teams anyways. On paper at least. Gotta love sharpies.*The F1 argument is a little off anyway. FIA is constantly making rules changes to save money. The big teams have what they have and they just spend it elsewhere. You tell them no beryllium in their engine, they just go and buy bigger windtunnels. A skinsuit isn't going to break the budget for anyone racing on the World Cup. Also, the last thing we need is for the UCI to be more like the FIA. How would y'all like it if they decided to ban all tires except Maxxis and then allocated 2 sets of Minions and 2 sets of High Rollers for the weekend. If it rains, they might let you have some Swampthings.
Do you seriously not understand the real issue here? It'd not about how much faster the skinsuit makes you, its about spending money to gain an advantage that has nothing to do with skill.
Finger's almost healed, I'll be riding soonSeriously, for those worried about this crap, Step away from the keyboard, and go for a damned ride.