lights around $400

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

I have a 35 watt Osram IRC halogen with DCM circuit and 6.6 Ah 14.8V Lion battery (prices in NZD, see xe.com for conversion)

Makes HID look wimpy and no fragile, expensive, hard-to-find bulbs/electronics. All you need is a helmet light and its bright enough to DH at full speed and lasts around 2 hour at 35 watts IRC (claimed equal to about 90 watts regular halogen - I'd say at around 60w in overdriven in the real world). It has three modes - 40, 60, or 100%, so run time is up to 4 hours on low. I use low for climbing, medium for slower technical stuff, and high for the full speed all-out riding.

Might be from NZ, but its only $15 USD air shipping to US and it doesn't take too long either.

They also sell cheaper build it yourself kits and you can buy just the 6.6 Ah 14.8V Lion Battery/smart charger. Weight for 6.6 Ah battery is 1.5 lbs.

35 watt IRC puts out a lot more light than the traditional nightrider 6V halogen bulbs. They are the same bulbs used in quality interior lighting setups and with the IRC coating put out around 30% more light in the real world vs. regular 12v halogen. When you overdrive them with the high voltage setup, HID doesn't stand a chance plus HID isn't as durable and more expensive at similar light output. You can always use electronics if you want longer run time/dual settings and you'll have the brightest setup out there. Easily bright enough to use only the helmet lamp and see great at full speed.

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

Kanter said:
So Halogen is brighter than HID?

No it depends on the wattage. The color and efficiency differs, so it takes more power and lumens to better HID in visual perception, but 35 watt IRC halogen certainly can do it in direct comparison with HID user I ride with. The high setting of the bicycle HID lights is around 150-200 lumens less than the overdriven 35 watt IRC halogen - FYI a standard 35 watt automotive HID is equal to about 100 watt standard non-IRC automotive halogen bulb.

In the real world a standard Welch Allyn 13.5 watt HID system (used in almost all bicycle HID systems) is equal to about a 40 watt standard halogen bulb and a 35 watt IRC halogen bulb is equal to about a 50 watt standard halogen bulb at standard wattage (brighter if overdriven obviously).

HID is also sensitive to shock from crashing and the replacement bulbs are expensive - more important since you are going to be riding DH rather than XC.

I think in a few years we'll see LED dominate. Its already appearing in the luxury auto market - I think the new Lexus flagship sedan has LED headlights. I haven't tried or seen any bicycle LED systems I've felt is as good as the 35 watt or HID systems YET...

RD3 · Nov 18, 2006

I have a Light & Motion Lithium Ion ARC. It costs a little more but is well worth it. I have had it for over a year and have had no problems with it. I would stay away from nite rider a couple friends have had lots of problems, chargers smoking, lights cutting out, battery cables fraying...
The light & motion will run for 3-3.5 hours. It is super bright, makes a white light. Its really lightweight and has a smart charger, you can leave the battery plugged in all the time.

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=47652

al-irl · Nov 18, 2006

Check out these lights.
Not sure what sort of prices they are in the states but they would be considered to be on the more expensive end of the market here. Ranging from about €350 -€900
http://www.lupine-lights.com

I use the edison 4 and its pretty amazing bright enough for flat out dh for about 2.5hrs and are super lightweight

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

al-irl said:
I use the edison 4 and its pretty amazing bright enough for flat out dh for about 2.5hrs and are super lightweight

I see Lupine has a 16 watt HID with good efficiency putting out 900 lumens - this is comparable to an overdriven 35 watt IRC but will definitely cost more and I wonder how cheap/easy it is to find replacement for 16 watt HID bulbs - I would guess they cost AT LEAST ten times as much - you can get IRC bulbs from local lighting stores for less than $10. Most bike HID use the 13.5 watt Welch Allyn setup. I think with that kinda of money you are paying for the Lupine, you would want to stick to using the system for XC unless you really need the extended burn times at maximum brightness.

al-irl · Nov 18, 2006

well fortunatly i got mine at very much the right price. I'm extreamly impressed by it and could almost justify the high price. I previously had a cat eye abs 30 which was a twin 15watt hallogen setup. Most of my mates still run these and in comparison to the edison 4 even on low power they don't even get close. To battery life or power.

The cheaper lupines like the passiubo xc is well worth considering

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

$200 do-it-yourself, 35 watt, 3200 lumen HID automotive based Lion helmet light w/2.5 hour run time

Bulbs and parts would be much cheaper and more common and probably around 3 times brighter than the best OEM bicycle light in the world...

More photos here. Don't forget riding in snow is a best case scenario for brightness perception with all that reflection.

dan-o · Nov 18, 2006

I haven't experienced any issues with my HID being fragile. On the contrary, it's led a hard life and has been 100% maintainance free. Bulb cost is irrelevent if it never needs to be replaced. I use a 3yo niterider (storm?) helmet mount.

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

RD3 said:
I would stay away from nite rider a couple friends have had lots of problems, chargers smoking, lights cutting out, battery cables fraying...

I concur their products and customer service blow. I see they still haven't gotten their act together. My friend and I bought both digital halogen setups from niterider years ago and we both had issues with the so-called smart charging system - they weren't. They actually tried to rip off my friend at first but later admitted it was a manufacturer's defect. They had so many returned units we were both out of action to make the units worthless for most of the second night riding season when they had issues...

My MTBR Review from Dec 2000:

I have one of the early production Digital NightOwl units (it does not have the chip with the walk mode) I bought last fall. This fall the unit has been malfunctioning. I charge it the full 14 hrs, until the charger blinks green, and yet it only runs for 20-30 minutes until going into the 6W emergency (red blinking mode). This has happened every time I’ve gone out this year, 6-7 times so far. Luckily for me, I had a Performance NiMH Headlamp that I could still ride with, but not very well with it alone - its a flood, 12W.

Nightrider was not very understanding of my problem. I've been without the unit now for about three weeks. Basically, it was worthless this season. I even offered to pay extra to ship me a new unit instead of repairing my old one. They said they couldn't do it, I guess they don't know what customer service is. My next light won't be a Nightrider.

If you are looking for a good light from a company that cares, check out Jet Designs, Light & Motion, or Performance.

Gary · Nov 18, 2006

this, and save yourself $210

http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=1395

gmac · Nov 18, 2006

First off Sweden looks so nice. Second, Those homemade lights looks like a Baja Trophy truck is coming.

I have old Nite Rider lights. They work good. Hold a charge well.... Good CS from NR too. But, performance wise I bet you can do better. Just not the brightest or best pattern. Holds me back a bit. I've never taken night shots of myself riding. But, I can tell you right now it doesn't look like those homemade images. I wish it had clearer instructions & parts might be worth a try.

ChrisKring · Nov 18, 2006

http://www.trailtech.net/motorcycle_home.htm#

Much cheaper than bicycle specific lights:
http://www.trailtech.net/helmet_mounted_light_kits_1.htm

Much brighter:

Gelbwurstbrot · Nov 18, 2006

I have two of these trailtech lamps.
1 flood and 1 spot.

They are much brighter then then the self made IRC lamps from my friends.
With two Cannon 6800 m/ah camcorder akkus you have more than enough time to ride.

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

Gelbwurstbrot said:
I have two of these trailtech lamps.
1 flood and 1 spot.

Well those MX Trailtech helmet lights are the same 13 watt HID bulbs from Welch Allyn found in the majority of bike light systems. A single unit won't be nearly as bright as a single 35 watt IRC and I've confirmed this in person. The product page says the 13 watt is approx. equal to a standard 39 watt halogen system which I don't challenge - thats what I said above. Two of them will brighter though (the MX page claims 76 watts w/duals) and having a helmet and bar combo is the best setup if you don't mind the cost and extra equipment. Whatever you get, go helmet though if you are only going to ride with a single light.

If you want to learn more about whats what with portable lighting technology and see some scary flashlight collectors/nerds, go to:

http://www.candlepowerforums.com/

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gmac · Nov 18, 2006

How about these LED ? Nothing to get tangled....

http://www.use1.com/exposure/index.php

syadasti · Nov 18, 2006

gmac said:
How about these LED ? Nothing to get tangled....

http://www.use1.com/exposure/index.php

I've tried some LED systems, up to 12W. At the moment the best systems are only about half as bright as high-wattage HID or halogen IRC systems.

I think they would be ok for XC riding/endurance racing, but not technical riding or DHing.

They'll get there in a few years IMHO.

Monkeybidnezz · Nov 19, 2006

Turbocat, and the trail tech would be my first choices as far as best bang and overall sweet lights. Hit the MTBR site, lots of discussions on the Trail tech light.

My first choice would be the Turbocat, I've used it before and in terms of construction is is solid, unlike the Niteriders and other makers. The light housing is made out of aluminum, so you can feel the quality. The review sections all rave about them as well.

I like the TT just for sheer brightness and bang for the buck. You can order it for around ~200, and it appears to be a pretty good system overall.

dexterq20 · Nov 21, 2006

RD3 said:
I have a Light & Motion Lithium Ion ARC. It costs a little more but is well worth it. I have had it for over a year and have had no problems with it. I would stay away from nite rider a couple friends have had lots of problems, chargers smoking, lights cutting out, battery cables fraying...
The light & motion will run for 3-3.5 hours. It is super bright, makes a white light. Its really lightweight and has a smart charger, you can leave the battery plugged in all the time.

http://www.speedgoat.com/product.asp?part=47652

We sell these lights at the shop where I work, and several of the guys I work with have them. I've heard nothing but good things from both customers and coworkers who have this light.

jon-boy · Nov 21, 2006

I just got a Cateye LED light and think it's excellent. It's about a 20-25W equivalent and white light. It lasts 3 hours going full blast and can be picked up off e-bay for around $200.

syadasti · Sep 27, 2008

LED lights have now become mainstream.

Here are some newer very high lumen LED systems:

1000 lumen
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=409770
(note the hint to buy the lamp from ALP and the battery separate from batteryspace so you keep the price under $400)

800 lumen
http://www.niteflux.com/Products_photonMax.aspx
http://reviews.mtbr.com/blog/niteflux-photon-max/
http://www.mtbr.com/cat/accessories/lights/niteflux/photon-max/PRD_417750_130crx.aspx

DirtMcGirk · Sep 27, 2008

I've been running the Trail Tec for two years now, never had an issue. Bright as hell, quick recharge, and GREAT customer service.

Monkeybidnezz · Sep 28, 2008

Dinotte systems are really nice too. I'm a big fan of LED lights due to there high output, long lasting charges and much less finicky than HID's.

syadasti · Sep 28, 2008

Would probably work fine but heavy compared to most cycling systems and you could match the output with a handlebar and helmet light flood/spot combo (which is better anyways) so it won't blow anything away.

24 watt LED setup would probably need at least a 6.6 ah battery for decent run times. Do those have decent reflectors/lens - is it a flood beam pattern? Do they require lots of air flow - they have high current and are made for motorized vehicles? Is the mounting system easy to aim and suited to MTB?

ALP also sells DIY kits too if you want to save money.

syadasti · Sep 28, 2008

What weighs 2.5 lbs - the light, the battery, or both? I am guessing the light alone. At $32 you are probably getting a heavy ass sealed lead acid battery so its going to be a pretty heavy setup. That diagram isn't too helpful - how may degrees is the reflector?

The 1000 lumen iblaastII weighs 135g for the head. With battery complete it comes in around 1.5 lbs with the 5.7 ah batteryspace battery pack which is bigger and heavier than necessary but worth it cause its cheap (for lion) but still a decent setup.

syadasti · Sep 28, 2008

That is a good deal. The ALP is a little brighter and lighter but more expensive if you buying everything from them rather than just the head or the DIY it. Also consider the MAX has a tight beam pattern if you are only using one light alone.

syadasti · Sep 28, 2008

Kanter said:
Ummmm ALP?

I mentioned them above:

1000 lumen
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=409770
(note the hint to buy the lamp from ALP and the battery separate from batteryspace so you keep the price under $400)

Here is the product page that has the iBlaast II and iBlaast II DCM. You have options on optics (spot or flood) and you can upgrade the LEDs when better LEDs are available rather than buying a whole new system. Email them if you have questions. Shipping is very reasonable.

http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/endurenz details.htm

pain · Sep 28, 2008

Maybe something like this, most people on dirt bikes use these for night riding so they are probably good enough for bikes http://www.cyclopsmotorsports.com/

syadasti · Sep 28, 2008

pain said:
Maybe something like this, most people on dirt bikes use these for night riding so they are probably good enough for bikes http://www.cyclopsmotorsports.com/

HID MX systems are nice and brighter than cycling lights but larger and heavier than LED and HID tech is not as durable (though the new generation is pretty decent). Runtimes are shorter (usually around 2 hrs), you can't turn them on and off quickly (need warm up/cool down), don't offer flexible electronic dimming control like LED, and their mounts might not work as well on bicycle helmet other than MX style DH helmets - depends on the mount. Keep in mind most lights are designed with MX speeds in mind for air cooling - ie minimum 5-10 mph so you could have heat problems.

Here is another: http://trailtech.net/single_hid_scmr16.html

syadasti · Sep 29, 2008

Kanter said:
OK the Nite Flux MAX it is.... now where to order? I was going to try and help a buddy out, but Im concerned with the weight.

I found the light for $349 at http://www.comcycle-usa.com/ProductInfo.aspx?id=4334393

They revised their reflector last year, sounds like a decent option as long as that reseller has the newer version:

last year's photon max was generally thought to be a bit too bright and narrow. Any stock that comes from our online store has wider optics now.

Tri-optics configuration
8 degree X 1
19 degree X 2

syadasti · Sep 30, 2008

Kanter said:
Where did you get that quote?

I emailed nightflux - I was curious myself.

lights around $400

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