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MTB Films speeded up?

Hi Guys,

I had a heated debate recently with a mate who is a decent rider and has been biking for years.

I gave him a few DVDs (earthed 3 and Illusionary Lines), and he is convinced that there are large amounts of it speeded up.

Having reviewed the footage he pointed out it does look very fast, and the behaviour of things like the dust settling and the movement of the trees seems to back this up. This and the crazy speeds the riders go through some sections.

He pointed out that any footage we have done ourselves looks way slower on film that it does in real life. So if the Movies look ridiculously fast, then reality must be crazy!

I know this sounds crazy, but there must be someone else who has noticed this.


Perhaps it's just the high shutter speeds they use for the fast action. Maybe this gives the effects.

Any comments?

Thanks,

JT
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Your flcks don't look slower becuase others are speeded up but because some ppl simply know how to make things look fast. That's why they do top notch bike flicks and you don't ;)
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
people speed up footage all the time, and it's the most annoying thing. So many bike films have clips where the leaves are "vibrating" it's not even funny.

That being said, not ALL films have sped up footage, so maybe they're just fast.
 

primo661

Monkey
Jun 16, 2008
412
0
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa
some is speeded up and some is also slowed down but 95% of it i would say is normal speed. The best in the world aren't the best in the world for nothing. At our national championships in June(i think), I got to see both Greg Minnaar and Andrew Neetling on a track I had ridden but from the sideline because of injury. They blew my perceptions of what is fast out of the water, Greg hit a section we call "Cloud 9" which isnt too hard but has a tricky corner on the exit and he gapped it and then made the corner cleanly and i didnt quite believe it until i saw it for a second time. Then at "Dr Evil" he hit it so fast that I thought he would land after the berm but he managed to suck it up and land before the berm. I could go on about what they did and how they disected the course and made it look like nothing but you really have to see it yourself.
 

LMC

Monkey
Dec 10, 2006
683
1
people speed up footage all the time, and it's the most annoying thing. So many bike films have clips where the leaves are "vibrating" it's not even funny.

That being said, not ALL films have sped up footage, so maybe they're just fast.
not as annoying as the constant slo-mo in mtb films..
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,030
5,918
borcester rhymes
mmm, i do believe the pros are fast, but there are sections in flicks that are sped up just slightly, and it's enough to be annoying. I don't doubt some are that fast in real life, but at the same time, it's just not believable often.
 

dump

Turbo Monkey
Oct 12, 2001
8,194
4,419
Apart from the obvious sped up sections, lens selection plays a big role. The use of wide angle & fish-eye lenses exaggerate heights, distances and ultimately speed.
 

DsDhBxracer13

Monkey
Feb 18, 2004
179
0
Burlington, Vermont
I would actually say most of the time they are not sped up at all. I used to be real big into video editing and would make bike clips all the time. I found that taking clips and putting them at 97% speed, so actually slowed down made them look faster. Also if you deinterlace the video that also makes it look faster a lot of the time, even though it is playing normal speed. Usually when something is sped up in a bike movie it is blatantly obvious. My 2 cents.
 

Damo

Short One Marshmallow
Sep 7, 2006
4,603
27
French Alps
I had a section that looked sped up, but wasn't.
I edited it, so I kinda know.
And it looked definately sped up.

Crazy sht I know.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I used to bltch about this all the time too.


Then I started shooting shlt tons of video and saw some things that made MY stuff look sped up, even though I know damn well it wasn't.

High shutter speeds give a kind of jerky look to motion. Look at peaty's section in seasons and the first head on shot of him was something I could have sworn was sped up. After shooting in dark conditions more myself, I'm at least open to the possibility that it wasn't. Not saying it doesn't happen but there are some scenarios that can make normal speed footage look like something else.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
I used to think very much the same thing. I reckon with the Earthed stuff at least though, it's simply well-shot footage. Rankin zooms in and out rapidly and keeps the camera moving all the time, he also shoots from quite close to the riders and focuses on the wheels rather than trying to keep the entire bike/rider in the frame all the time. This alone creates a jerky, fast-paced feeling that can exaggerate the speed of the riders IMO.

The first Super 8 I was convinced had sped-up footage in it, but the guys who edited it specifically denied this.
 

Fakewade

Monkey
Aug 26, 2006
120
0
Back in Scotland
I used to bltch about this all the time too.


Then I started shooting shlt tons of video and saw some things that made MY stuff look sped up, even though I know damn well it wasn't.

High shutter speeds give a kind of jerky look to motion. Look at peaty's section in seasons and the first head on shot of him was something I could have sworn was sped up. After shooting in dark conditions more myself, I'm at least open to the possibility that it wasn't. Not saying it doesn't happen but there are some scenarios that can make normal speed footage look like something else.
I was sure that Peaty's section looked sped up too. When he goes through the puddles, the splash of the water just doesn't look right...
 

Biffff

Monkey
Jan 10, 2006
913
0
I love the Earthed series, but nobody will convince me that the footage is not sped up. The way the branches, leaves, and bi-standers are moving is not natural.......its like you hit the fast forward button.
 

Matchew

Monkey
May 26, 2006
511
0
NH / Mass (ugh)
I used to think very much the same thing. I reckon with the Earthed stuff at least though, it's simply well-shot footage. Rankin zooms in and out rapidly and keeps the camera moving all the time, he also shoots from quite close to the riders and focuses on the wheels rather than trying to keep the entire bike/rider in the frame all the time. This alone creates a jerky, fast-paced feeling that can exaggerate the speed of the riders IMO.
I was just going to say that. Rankin does a very good job with angles and zooming to exaggerate the riders speed. It is very noticeable in parts of Adam Brayton's Earthed 5 section.
 
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tdyrsmid

Chimp
Nov 2, 2008
2
0
San Diego
Oh, they are sped up for sure. If you watch any of the races and pay attention to the stop watch, its going way too fast for it to be real. Sorry JT!!

T
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Give examples. I think First is sped up in some places(but I think it maybe be sth wrong with my dvd or sth as I think it was ok last time I've watched it fully) but can find one in Earthed 5.
 

kuksul08

Monkey
Jun 4, 2007
240
0
I have the Earthed series and there is no doubt in my mind that many sections are sped up. I think its retarded :plthumbsdown:
 

ronan

Monkey
Dec 7, 2007
786
0
Toulouse, France
i don't know man, i rode grandvalira alot this year and the tracks they're riding are super fast, especially the top open ones they're riding with bermed corners and ****, theres not much in the way to slow you down or to think about, and the dirt is surprisingly grippy however dusty it is.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,029
7,549
the OP's point is something that bugged me for a long time -- a lot of footage is quite clearly sped up. that, and the bad music, are a large part of why i stopped supporting the film industry. my tastes run more alpha project than NWD, for the record.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
One DVD i watched recently actually showed the riders times as they went through sections. The clock on the screen was running faster than reality which seems to confirm that at least some filmmakers play with film speed.
 

Udi

RM Chief Ornithologist
Mar 14, 2005
4,915
1,200
Also worthy of note, we had the NZ world championships telecast here (I think it was a news item) and while the footage was quite professional, the actual riders looked fairly slow compared to the footage you see in MTB films. I reckon it was a dead giveaway of how much things actually get sped up.

For the record, Hill was somehow exempt from that rule and still looked menacingly fast even at real-time news feed speed.
 

Gunner

Monkey
May 6, 2003
533
0
Framingham, MA
Getting a big time mtn bike film producer to admit they sped up footage would be like getting Barry Bonds to admit he took steroids. Now all we need is the Jose Conseco of mtb films to write a book.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
One DVD i watched recently actually showed the riders times as they went through sections. The clock on the screen was running faster than reality which seems to confirm that at least some filmmakers play with film speed.
What DVD was that?
 

bikenweed

Turbo Monkey
Oct 21, 2004
2,432
0
Los Osos
I've never seen anything that looked blatantly sped up. Good angles, good tracking/panning shots, and fast cuts all add to the feeling of speed. Comparing professional vids to home vids doesn't make any sense, and TV news crews are usually pretty horrible at filming any action sports. Audio plays a huge part was well.

Go out and ride with some top-level pro dudes, and you'll realize most stuff is either realtime or slowed down to 95 percent, but with really, really quick cuts from shot to shot, with contrasting motion.
 

davetrump

Turbo Monkey
Jul 29, 2003
1,270
0
What DVD was that?
illusionary lines...

buy the guy who posted this must be pretty dense to not notice that the clock is added in by the editor of the film and is sped up on purpose (only the clock is sped up)

take a second look at you will notice the riders are at normal speed and the filmmaker uses about 30 seconds of race footage from 3 or 4 sections of a course... yet the riders cross the line with there finish times on the timer

the clock is there for effect and it's "speed" is completely separate from the actual footage being shown

not sure how that was not painfully obvious

if not convinced, slow it down so the clock is at real time and watch the riders and spectators moving at NWD speed




then go watch freecaster coverage (sam at maribor worlds and bromont)... and you will see these guys go faster than anything or anyone most of you can comprehend unless you have seen it in person.
 
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Transcend

My Nuts Are Flat
Apr 18, 2002
18,040
3
Towing the party line.
Also worthy of note, we had the NZ world championships telecast here (I think it was a news item) and while the footage was quite professional, the actual riders looked fairly slow compared to the footage you see in MTB films. I reckon it was a dead giveaway of how much things actually get sped up.

For the record, Hill was somehow exempt from that rule and still looked menacingly fast even at real-time news feed speed.
That is because most news and tv broadcasts are shot using VERY long lenses. Ft Bill, fastest course of the season, the first shot was 1:30 seconds. Riders barely seemed to be moving when they were doing 50km/h+ in some straights. A long lens, (especially in bright light at high F-stop) compresses the depth of field and people seem to be moving at molasses in January like speeds. Most MTB films are show on Wide Angle lenses, which increases the feeling of speed (and steepness).
 

c2001

Paparazzi
Aug 10, 2001
1,093
0
where everyone is
Both dondon and Transcend speed up their photographs. It's true.
SO TRUE! you can totally tell by the way leaves and stuff are captured in the metadata.

to dump, alpha project is footage is sped up to 103% that's the difference in speed between top-level regional pinners and world cup elite pinners. we couldn't have the locals looking off the back.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
We all know the filmmakers and photographers are a part of well know world wide conspiracy. You want us to feel slow compared to pros so we buy all that is shown on prictures vid. Oh yeah and your all part of the bush family.


BTW. Why most of the Evidence of speed up are older flicks not the new ones? Especialy that they look waaaay faster.
 

gemini2k

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2005
3,526
117
San Francisco
Watch Riffle's section in "between the tape". Right at the beginning when he's riding down the smooth section of cold springs, totally sped up. No question. And it looks stupid, I dunno why you'd do that.
 

ebarker9

Monkey
Oct 2, 2007
848
242
That is because most news and tv broadcasts are shot using VERY long lenses. Ft Bill, fastest course of the season, the first shot was 1:30 seconds. Riders barely seemed to be moving when they were doing 50km/h+ in some straights. A long lens, (especially in bright light at high F-stop) compresses the depth of field and people seem to be moving at molasses in January like speeds. Most MTB films are show on Wide Angle lenses, which increases the feeling of speed (and steepness).
I've noticed this a lot with Formula One coverage as well. In person the cars are terrifyingly fast and loud and on TV they come across as shrill little toys circulating around the track. Usually amateur footage gives you a much better feel for what the event is actually like in person. I suppose that nice shots of sponsor logos have a lot to do with it...