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Reliability of BOS components

worship_mud

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2006
1,464
2
as BOS advertises so much with their WRC pedigree, it's interesting to hear another side of the story:

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/11/02/subaru-verklagt-bos/index.html

Here's a yahoo babelfish translation, as i'm too lazy to translate it myself:

Shortly after announcing that the Subaru Factory Team "Pro Drive" will participate in the WRC with shock absorbers of the Swedish company Öhlins starting from 2009, team head David Richard confirmed that he will pull with substantial demands for payment of damages against its past partner BOS before court. „There were dozens of problems in quality, arrangements were not kept. In the end we serviced the shocks ourselves", grumbled the Englishman. "Pro Drive" used BOS shocks for two season in the WRC. Since then the drivers complained regularly about chassis problems. By the end of October the first Öhlins shocks should be supplied to Pro Drive. After that the first tests with the new outfitter should take place. Öhlins is no stranger in the WRC. The Swedes were a partner of Mitsubishi in the late 90's as one of the guarantors for the four world champion titles of Tommi Mäkinen.

well, i don't know, if i'd get their stuff anymore......
 
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djamgils

Monkey
Aug 31, 2007
349
0
Holland
was it the product that failed or the (french) organization around the product.

I have been using a Bos Stoy for 4~5 months and have zero problems. And I would expect that the service of TFtuned is good if not better then the service of Bos.
 

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,346
1,587
Warsaw :/
Yeah, as long as you go not threw bos but threw distributors like TFtuned it's not a problem. TF has a great CS.
 

Steve M

Turbo Monkey
Mar 3, 2007
1,991
45
Whistler
Have you ever seen the kind of demands (particularly time related) race teams put on their equipment and suppliers? There is a reason F1 team budgets run into the hundreds of millions, sometimes billions of dollars. They are CONSTANTLY destroying stuff, switching suppliers for parts and expecting that new improved part to be ordered today and delivered yesterday. I'm not trying to defend BOS here, maybe they stuffed up in a big way, but don't jump to conclusions about the reliability of their MTB shocks based on issues a big-money WRC race team had with them.
 

Daver

Monkey
Jun 1, 2005
390
0
Shiddeny
Funny. We met the prodrive guys when we did our service course at BOS. Didn't like them, but it was more the fact that they were Poms.

Don't really want to say anything I shouldn't so I won't... BUT... Bos have not had any problems in their Rally Cross cars, or Dakar, or their other WRC cars. I would take what Prodrive say with a grain of salt.
 
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LukeD

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
751
2
Massachusetts
as BOS advertises so much with their WRC pedigree, it's interesting to hear another side of the story:

http://www.rallye-magazin.de/r/wm/d/n/d/2008/11/02/subaru-verklagt-bos/index.html

Here's a yahoo babelfish translation, as i'm too lazy to translate it myself:

Shortly after announcing that the Subaru Factory Team "Pro Drive" will participate in the WRC with shock absorbers of the Swedish company Öhlins starting from 2009, team head David Richard confirmed that he will pull with substantial demands for payment of damages against its past partner BOS before court. „There were dozens of problems in quality, arrangements were not kept. In the end we serviced the shocks ourselves", grumbled the Englishman. "Pro Drive" used BOS shocks for two season in the WRC. Since then the drivers complained regularly about chassis problems. By the end of October the first Öhlins shocks should be supplied to Pro Drive. After that the first tests with the new outfitter should take place. Öhlins is no stranger in the WRC. The Swedes were a partner of Mitsubishi in the late 90's as one of the guarantors for the four world champion titles of Tommi Mäkinen.

well, i don't know, if i'd get their stuff anymore......
there is much more to that story if you follow WRC...not to mention it is rather old. SWRT have had chassis problems for quite awhile, most notably 06/07. Their old car could not compete with citron, ford etc. That's the main reason they changed up their chassis the beginning of this year. If you follow WRC you will see that even with new suspension, they are still having issues.
 
Oct 14, 2007
394
0
was it the product that failed or the (french) organization around the product.

I have been using a Bos Stoy for 4~5 months and have zero problems. And I would expect that the service of TFtuned is good if not better then the service of Bos.
Americans sure love the french
 

worship_mud

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2006
1,464
2
i know that petter solberg was extremely unhappy with the old car and could hardly await the new one. and i fully understand, that there are incompatibilities between manufacturers on all levels of motor sports - tyres, chassis, etc etc. but it's new to me that a top level motor sports team sues (!!!) a supplier. Normally they change suppliers and never lose a bad word about their former supplier. but sueing is kind of rough.
And publicly accosting about bad quality and the lack of keeping promises is nothing i heard from a boss of a WRC race team before.
the low point of Mr. Head's statement in my opinion is:
"In the end we serviced the shocks ourselves"
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
so let me get this straight: BOS is (possibly) having issues supplying works suspension to a WRC team based on the demands of the team, drivers, management, and characteristics of the car (or simply keeping the team directors happy) and you are wondering if this will effect their DH shocks and customer service to the average consumer who is likely to deal with a separate group of people working under entirely different conditions and deadlines?

How does what BOS does with automotive suspension on the world rally circuit have any correlation to mtb? unless, of course, you intend to mount a wrc shock on your bike.
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
Yeah? So, what have the french ever given the world???
The aqualung, the first storage battery, braille, the altimeter, the diesel engine (he has born in Paris), the stethoscope, the hot air balloon, digital calculator, pasteurization, sewing machine, parachute, mayonnaise, the metric system, the pencil, the statue of liberty, the bikini . . . . oh yeah, and the bicycle.

i made a bunch of my students look into it back when it was cool the hate on France in 2003 because they said some little war was a bad idea. silly french.
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
The answer I was looking for was democracy, existentialism, and the ménage à trois, but I'll also accept 'those really thin pancakes'.

:biggrin:

well, existentialism has its roots in Germany, and democracy originated in ancient Greece, but crepes are still pretty good. :biggrin:

sorry to derail, but this tread never really had a point in the first place.
 

lumpygravy

Chimp
Sep 4, 2008
39
0
The aqualung, the first storage battery, braille, the altimeter, the diesel engine (he has born in Paris), the stethoscope, the hot air balloon, digital calculator, pasteurization, sewing machine, parachute, mayonnaise, the metric system, the pencil, the statue of liberty, the bikini . . . . oh yeah, and the bicycle.
Well, yeah. Obviously the aqualung, But apart from the bicycle, the aqualung and the roads what have the romans ever done for us?:poster_oops:
 

DaveyIntense

Chimp
Jul 25, 2008
68
0
Berwick
There already is a supplies issue!! i bought my bos idyle in june and used it in france until july when my bike broke so i bought a new bike and sent the shock to get lengthened to fit my new bike i was told parts would be coming in within the month to do this. Im still waiting now, no fault of the uk distributors but no spares or parts are arriving from BOS to get the job done.
 

worship_mud

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2006
1,464
2
so let me get this straight: BOS is (possibly) having issues supplying works suspension to a WRC team based on the demands of the team, drivers, management, and characteristics of the car (or simply keeping the team directors happy) and you are wondering if this will effect their DH shocks and customer service to the average consumer who is likely to deal with a separate group of people working under entirely different conditions and deadlines?

How does what BOS does with automotive suspension on the world rally circuit have any correlation to mtb? unless, of course, you intend to mount a wrc shock on your bike.
BOS are underlining their competence in shock technology by competing (and also mentioning this fact on their mtb-site) in one of the most demanding environments - WRC. which (possibly) ends in a lawsuit of a (possibly) very p*ssed WRC team. so if the company's technological spearhead doesn't get his customers satisfied, i wonder how successful will "standard" CS try to make the average joe happy.
but their mtb stuff is admittedly very good looking and i'd really love to try it out. :brows:
actually i hope their mtb stuff will be successful, as an old nico fanboi i'm glad they're back into mtb.
 

General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
BOS are underlining their competence in shock technology by competing (and also mentioning this fact on their mtb-site) in one of the most demanding environments - WRC. which (possibly) ends in a lawsuit of a (possibly) very p*ssed WRC team. so if the company's technological spearhead doesn't get his customers satisfied, i wonder how successful will "standard" CS try to make the average joe happy.
but their mtb stuff is admittedly very good looking and i'd really love to try it out. :brows:
actually i hope their mtb stuff will be successful, as an old nico fanboi i'm glad they're back into mtb.
somehow i doubt the wrc team's needs were as simple as 'i need new seals and an oil change' or 'i need new du bushings.' Besides, given the sort of business relationships, the performance expectations, and the money involved in sports like wrc and f1 it's entirely possible that this is just a case of bad business or an arguement between a team and a sponsor with one trying to win the pissing contest over the other. wouldn't suprise me if BOS decided their biggest leverage was to stop servicing shocks. . . who knows. but it's hardly a rarity in motorsports.

to assume this is a simple matter of 'customer service' is missing the point entirely. it's not CS, it's a business agreement that for whatever reason (we don't really know) didn't go well. factory race support is so far outside the realm of 'customer service.'

not to mention (again) that we are talking about two completely different industries and products (let alone the performance demands of wrc suspension far outpace those of a dh mtn bike). also, this isn't BOS's first rodeo in WRC or in automotive suspension design. they've been at it for well over a decade.
 
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al-irl

Turbo Monkey
Dec 9, 2004
1,086
0
A, A
The aqualung, the first storage battery, braille, the altimeter, the diesel engine (he has born in Paris), the stethoscope, the hot air balloon, digital calculator, pasteurization, sewing machine, parachute, mayonnaise, the metric system, the pencil, the statue of liberty, the bikini . . . . oh yeah, and the bicycle.

i made a bunch of my students look into it back when it was cool the hate on France in 2003 because they said some little war was a bad idea. silly french.
I didn't think you guys used the metric system.
 

LukeD

Monkey
Sep 9, 2001
751
2
Massachusetts
I HIGHLY DOUBT that what's going on between prodrive and BOSS has any relevance to mtb shocks. I am surprised they are suing boss though, i mean they might as well sue pirelli as well.... afterall, pirelli couldn't deliver and prodrive ended up having to sipe their own tires. What happens between boss and prodrive happens behind their closed doors..there was an article about Boss engineering in a recent Dirt and even they said that the WRC side of the business is totally different. They weren't even allowed to go anywhere near the WRC side of things at BOSS. Prodrive is just running around looking for excuses to make their driver happy. Right when it comes down to it Fuji Industries in Japan AND Prodrive couldn't keep up with the competition and did not adapt to suit the conditions. Up until the beginning half of this year they were on a platform which was basically unchanged since the introduction of the impreza to rally. They made the change to the impreza from the legacy for a shorter, more manuverable car. Recently, the other teams changed platforms again, downsized and stuck with hatches for the desired geometry and size they needed...plus the added natural downforce over the rear of a hatchback. The new impreza is still too long compared to the other hatches and is still having handling issues. There's word around the paddock of a new car in the works to phase out the impreza in the WRC world to handle these issues...we'll see. So anyways, what's happening between those 2 companies has nothing to do with the mountain bike market. :)
 
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General Lee

Turbo Monkey
Oct 16, 2003
2,860
0
The 802
I HIGHLY DOUBT that what's going on between prodrive and BOSS has any relevance to mtb shocks. I am surprised they are suing boss though, i mean they might as well sue pirelli as well.... afterall, pirelli couldn't deliver and prodrive ended up having to sipe their own tires. What happens between boss and prodrive happens behind their closed doors..there was an article about Boss engineering in a recent Dirt and even they said that the WRC side of the business is totally different. They weren't even allowed to go anywhere near the WRC side of things at BOSS. Prodrive is just running around looking for excuses to make their driver happy. Right when it comes down to it Fuji Industries in Japan AND Prodrive couldn't keep up with the competition and did not adapt to suit the conditions. Up until the beginning half of this year they were on a platform which was basically unchanged since the introduction of the impreza to rally. They made the change to the impreza from the legacy for a shorter, more manuverable car. Recently, the other teams changed platforms again, downsized and stuck with hatches for the desired geometry and size they needed...plus the added natural downforce over the rear of a hatchback. The new impreza is still too long compared to the other hatches and is still having handling issues. There's word around the paddock of a new car in the works to phase out the impreza in the WRC world to handle these issues...we'll see. So anyways, what's happening between those 2 companies has nothing to do with the mountain bike market. :)
wait, so when Prodrive needs help they don't call the same customer service number as the rest of us?

but seriously, he's entirely correct. If the Fox trailer was doing a sh*t job of servicing factory equipment at the world cup races it wouldn't effect regular customer service one ounce. even if they can't make Gee the shock he wants or was promised, Fox can still mail you a new cartridge.
 
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Rover Nick

Monkey
Oct 17, 2006
280
0
I didnt read every post so I'm sorry if this has been said but......

I'm pretty sure I could find horror stories about fox shocks on big money baja teams such as the Class 1 buggies and trophy trucks.
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,480
4,720
Australia
Nah stuff buying BOS stuff now. Marzocchi, RockShox and Manitou have never, ever received a complaint from the WRC teams running their gear. BOS sucks.
 

RMboy

Monkey
Dec 1, 2006
879
0
England the Great...
Do you Yanks even like or know WRC??? i thought u just liked Cars going round one big loop, much easier for you to understand, and way less distance for you to have to walk...

;-) HEHE
 

leprechaun

Turbo Monkey
Apr 17, 2004
1,009
0
SLC,Ut
Do you Yanks even like or know WRC??? i thought u just liked Cars going round one big loop, much easier for you to understand, and way less distance for you to have to walk...

;-) HEHE
There's this yank named Travis Pastrami that does backflips in his rally car over here so we love rally now. And we have lots of dirt roads with cows on them that we like to swerve around and stuff.

Actually...yeah, between Travis and Ken block Rally is getting a lot of press. Ever see Racer X's cover shot of them in there syncronised rediculousness? Oh and the X games. That's as amercan as it gets.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
xgames rally makes me want to punch dogs.

real rally is where it's at, not jumping totally sweet cars over totally sweet jumps.

cars, fast, turns, gravel...that's cool.

oh yeah this thread is about BOS shocks. Now I don't want to buy one...except that they cost the same as many frames...for that price you better get it hand delivered by Nico himself.e
 

top_dog

Monkey
Jan 27, 2006
209
0
Australia
Well as someone who has actually been running a BOS MTB shock and a Boxxer Cartridge for 11 months I can say both have been 100% reliable.