New Saint Cranks??....

Ian Collins said:

i was wondering if anyone has any serious ride time on the new saint cranks....

i just smoked another pair of Gravity lights just riding along(no joke)....i was literally just mashing through a rock section and i bent the hell out of the left arm(again)...the cranks and pedals didn't touch a single thing....i didn't case a jump, drop, crash, nothing....just put some serious load on them.....

are the saints super strong or is it back to profiles for me?....

feedback from those who are riding them is greatly appreciated....

Ian

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I too am curious. I haven't bent my glites, but I just went back to my race face evolves and the difference is pretty intense, the glites are so flexy compared to the evolves, its pretty intense

They look pretty nice but still pretty new I haven't seen any out here yet!

Maybe head back to Profile or maybe look @ Deity vendetta's they're the lightest 3 piece crank set going and they're got an 83mm bb option for DH some of the lightest sprockets for full bash or taco types only issue is if ya see it that way is 170mm only tough as nails though! Or maybe the RF Atlas FR is an option for ya!

what about raceface Atlas FR?

Had mine since Aug. Still tight. I have a 175mm crankset on my M6 so imagine the target practice rocks have been having on these babies.

I changed over to the new Saints after bending my Grav Lights twice.

They're noticeably stiffer and the crank arms are only 70 grams heavier than the gravity lights. I kept my FSA BB in and just swapped out the arms, I'll put the saint BB in when the FSA one dies.

If you're hard on cranks get the Saints.

hi , i've just changed to the saints from an xt, the most immediate difference is the weight but in the trail, the stiffness and the build quality really shows.the other thing I like is the little cap thing is metal and not plastic like the xt.
in the trail, i went over a couple of logs and when it hit the cranks, it just felt more like a 'thud' than a 'twang' compared to the xt. I will be riding more this weekend and will feedback more.














The final build specs for reference
Frame-Transition Bottlerocket M White
Fork-Fox Float RLC
Shock-Fox DHX 5.0 Coil
Bars-Deity Dirty Thirty
Stem-Transition Temple Lite
Headset-Chris King 1.5 Devolution
Grips-ODI Oury
Seat-Fizik Gobi XM
Seatpost-Thomson Elite
Cassette-XT
Crank-Saint 09 Double 170mm
Brakes-Saint 09
Shifter-Saint 09
FD-XT 08
RD-Saint 09 medium cage
Pedal-Shimano DX
Chain-KMC X9SL
Wheelset-Dt Swiss 370 Hub/Mavic 317 Disc/Avid CS 2 Rotor/Intense CC05

A bit off topic-
is that a metal pegboard in the background>?
Mind if you give us a snap shop of the tools in the back, looks promissing

yup, it's at the local bike shop that i got my stuff. I dont have a full pic but the one below shows more of it

When are the new Saints going to be available in 83X170/165? If my friend's telling me right, you can only find 83X175 right now.

Don't they have the problem not fitting current bash guards?

Why does the website list a 180mm version?

I would rock it on my AM/FR bike.

CBJ said:

Don't they have the problem not fitting current bash guards?

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Not a problem with a LG-1 guide and I'm sure the Shimano bashguard would work reasonably well with whatever chainguide you happen to use.

cajun22 said:

yup, it's at the local bike shop that i got my stuff. I dont have a full pic but the one below shows more of it

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holy crap!! are you from singapore by any chance? that bike shop looks really familiar to me.

and did you get those frames off ian?

sorry, nothing to add to the thread. oster_oops:

fred.r said:

When are the new Saints going to be available in 83X170/165? If my friend's telling me right, you can only find 83X175 right now.

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If it makes any difference I'm running the 83 x 170's. But I'm in Aussie, I would assume though that they're available in the US as well.

fred.r said:

When are the new Saints going to be available in 83X170/165? If my friend's telling me right, you can only find 83X175 right now.

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Your friend is mistaken. BTI as both the two ring/bash and arm/bb only 815 saints in stock in 170mm.

165's ...not so much....

Dogboy said:

Not a problem with a LG-1 guide and I'm sure the Shimano bashguard would work reasonably well with whatever chainguide you happen to use.

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Well I am talking about a bash guard attached to the crank not a LG-1 style. E13 has stated that the Shimano bashguard does not work with their guides.

fred.r said:

When are the new Saints going to be available in 83X170/165? If my friend's telling me right, you can only find 83X175 right now.

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Whats up Fred, Missed you at the november Annual. We should have two sets of 83mm 165 single ring saints coming in in january. For some reason they were backordered on alot of people. Had a big mix up with Lin's, they sent me a set of doubles with rings, 73/175. They were boxed wrong. He got taken care of one way or the other in the end.

I will PM you when I have a set in my hands if you want

CBJ said:

E13 has stated that the Shimano bashguard does not work with their guides.

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Which is why I said reasonably well. I have the utmost respect for dw and the e13 crew, but I'm sure you can get it to work well enough to keep the chain on 90% of the time - which is enough for most mortals.

DirtyMike said:

Whats up Fred, Missed you at the november Annual. We should have two sets of 83mm 165 single ring saints coming in in january. For some reason they were backordered on alot of people. Had a big mix up with Lin's, they sent me a set of doubles with rings, 73/175. They were boxed wrong. He got taken care of one way or the other in the end.

I will PM you when I have a set in my hands if you want

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Yeah...I was lucky enough to find a set of 83X165. I haven't had much time on them , but for now...they feel more stiff than my older saints.

Dogboy said:

Which is why I said reasonably well. I have the utmost respect for dw and the e13 crew, but I'm sure you can get it to work well enough to keep the chain on 90% of the time - which is enough for most mortals.

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Yeah but if you're paying $50 a race weekend and that 90% happens in your race run, or even worse, right before some gnarly rock section with your crankarms straight up and down, that's not going to make for a happy day.. LG1 is dialed on there for sure though.

dhkid said:

holy crap!! are you from singapore by any chance? that bike shop looks really familiar to me.

and did you get those frames off ian?

sorry, nothing to add to the thread. oster_oops:

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yup, it's L&T at Tampines. Ian is no longer the dealer, the new dealer is KSH cycle in Malaysia who is affiliated to L&T cycle here in Singapore.

I am using the 170mm and it seems to work ok on mild trails, haven;t got a chance to do hardcore stuff, will update if I do.

Running them , loving them.:biggrin:

CBJ said:

E13 has stated that the Shimano bashguard does not work with their guides.

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I'd take that with a pinch of salt. E13 also stated that a Gamut bash won't work with their SRS guide either. It works a damn sight better than the E13 bash does when it gets muddy, The Gamut bashguard design clears mud far better and never lost a chain, can't say that about the E13! The SRS is the single most mud grabbing device I've ever used - in proper muddy conditions it clogs so bad between the chainring and bash it actually causes the chain to ride above the teeth leaving you totally stuffed if you don't jetwash it after every second or third run.

Gary said:

I'd take that with a pinch of salt. E13 also stated that a Gamut bash won't work with their SRS guide either. It works a damn sight better than the E13 bash does when it gets muddy, The Gamut bashguard design clears mud far better and never lost a chain, can't say that about the E13! The SRS is the single most mud grabbing device I've ever used - in proper muddy conditions it clogs so bad between the chainring and bash it actually causes the chain to ride above the teeth leaving you totally stuffed if you don't jetwash it after every second or third run.

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You can take it with anything you want really. I am going to have to disagree with nearly everything that you wrote, as a rider who puts in a lot of miles, and as the person who designed the systems.

1) the gamut bashguard has too small of a diameter to work with a 2002-2008 SRS. IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY.

2) The Saint bashguard uses a 2mm step for the part of the bashguard next to the chainring. The chain, in extreme situations, can jam between the bashguard and the chainring, especially with larger size rings. The Saint bashguard also has too small of a diameter to work properly with a 2002-2008 SRS.

3) The Saint cranks use a 1mm wider chainring tab than any other crank on the market. If you use ANY bashguard equipped chainguide on the cranks, your bashguard will be spaced far enough away from your chainring that you run the risk of jamming the chain between the bashguard and chainring. The solution is for companies to offer bashguards with a step in them and no step as described in point 2.

4) You must have some serious mud where you live, I can't imagine it's much worse than the East Coast USA. We've had tech support at every world cup, norba national, and many events in the UK and US (like NPS series and MSC) over the last 6 years, and I have NEVER heard of what you are describing. Not that I don't believe you, but man, like I said, that is some SERIOUS mud. The original SRS design was born to shed mud, it was a HUGE improvement over the mrp and blackspire products of that time and the latest 2009 designs are even better.

As always, we strive for perfection so that you can have more fun on your bike, spend less time wrenching, and more time riding. If you want to chance your day with some hokey setup, that's totally cool, your choice. We just want to help you have more fun.

After searching through the box about 3 times and then bothering to read the instructions, it would seem they've dropped the pedal washer for the new cranks.

DW, it's nice to get the oppertunity to talk to the designer first hand about problems I've encountered with any product, but..

dw said:

You can take it with anything you want really. I am going to have to disagree with nearly everything that you wrote, as a rider who puts in a lot of miles, and as the person who designed the systems.

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Disagree with whatever you want, Everything I said is based on FACT from what I personally have found while riding the SRS with both the E13 bash it came with and a Gamut one.

1) the gamut bashguard has too small of a diameter to work with a 2002-2008 SRS. IT WILL NOT WORK PROPERLY.

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I'm pretty sure the larger diameter Bash is partly why the SRS clogs up with mud worse than any other guide. (lack of any cut out's to actually shed the mud once it is in there is the other). - The Gamut bash I used still overlapped the underside of the top guide so how is that too small a diameter?

4) You must have some serious mud where you live, I can't imagine it's much worse than the East Coast USA. We've had tech support at every world cup, norba national, and many events in the UK and US (like NPS series and MSC) over the last 6 years, and I have NEVER heard of what you are describing. Not that I don't believe you, but man, like I said, that is some SERIOUS mud. The original SRS design was born to shed mud, it was a HUGE improvement over the mrp and blackspire products of that time and the latest 2009 designs are even better.

As always, we strive for perfection so that you can have more fun on your bike, spend less time wrenching, and more time riding. If you want to chance your day with some hokey setup, that's totally cool, your choice. We just want to help you have more fun.

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I live in the UK and I don't know anything about East coast mud. when we ride DH whether just out with mates, at uplift days or races we rely on either pushing or cattle trucks to shuttle us to the top, this can take upto an hour round trip from the start of each run, on particularly muddy days (not raining, just wet/muddy) the space between the chainring and E13bash starts to fill up with mud, by the time you've got to the top for your next run that mud has had time to dry, it then fills with more mud, until the point that the mud is actually filling above the height the chain sits on the chainring, eventually you'll go to pedal and the chain slips and as it's ridden off above the height of the teeth, depending on how bad it's happened it either leaves you knowing you can't pedal anymore or actually jams the chain at the top guide making it hard to even move the cranks. This exact thing has happened many times on 2 E13 SRSs first one came stock on a SGS DH 04 (used with a FSA 38T ring), second a 07 Sunday - (with 36T E13 guide ring). both set-up correctly. I now know to always keep an eye on it and clear out mud with the flat screwdriver from my multi tool after each run or borrow someone in the carpark's jetwash to blast that area clean.
I don't know who you use to send you feedback from the UK, but if it's a racer there's two quite important difference between my riding than you're average racer, fistly I rarely pedal, only a few strokes at the start of a run, possibly a few before a big jump and a little out the odd corner, infact I probably backpedal (to set-up pedal position) as much as I pedal forwards. the other is, most of the faster UK racers I see have pristine bikes jetwashing them down in the car park between runs, I tend to do too many runs to even have time to do that.
If you want feed back for your products from someone else PM me, I'd be more than happy to help.

in response to your points 2 & 3 about the Saint crank/Bash I realised the Saint chainring tabs were wider but had no idea they were 1mm wider but the bashguard has a 2mm step! What's that all about? (can anyone post a pic?)
also, having not seen a new Saint crank in the flesh, is the step not below the diameter of the chainring teeth? it would seem pretty dumb if it was above the height the chain sits at! but if is below, how can it interfere with the chain unless the chain has already derrailled and forced it's way down between the ring and bashguard? :huh:

I too have had problems with mud and the SRS. The LG1 has no mud problems for me.

Have to sort of agree with you there mate.. Mine gets clogged but not as bad as you state. Still doesn't jump just makes a nice grinding sound lol but thats fair enough you cant here it on the way down anyway.. But i have never seen it clear the mud just collect... But i don't know if your from up north or down south but the mud down here is not as bad as your is...lol

I still would not uses anything else thought

RMboy said:

don't know if your from up north or down south

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neither, Scotland.

AAAGGGGHHHH u scot, the enemy..LOL stay behind the wall!! lol not really

Yeah you prob got the king of mud up there!!!

dw said:

2) The Saint bashguard uses a 2mm step for the part of the bashguard next to the chainring. The chain, in extreme situations, can jam between the bashguard and the chainring, especially with larger size rings. The Saint bashguard also has too small of a diameter to work properly with a 2002-2008 SRS.

3) The Saint cranks use a 1mm wider chainring tab than any other crank on the market. If you use ANY bashguard equipped chainguide on the cranks, your bashguard will be spaced far enough away from your chainring that you run the risk of jamming the chain between the bashguard and chainring. The solution is for companies to offer bashguards with a step in them and no step as described in point 2.

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Dave, will the new Saint cranks and bash combo work with a 02-08 SRS?

er.. Guitarhero, you've just quoted his answer and the reasons for it.

:huh:

RMboy said:

Have to sort of agree with you there mate.. Mine gets clogged but not as bad as you state.

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same here, but only in some mud conditions. where its really thick, high clay content soil, sticks like **** to a blanket. you can forget about back pedalling.

i ride enough in those conditions for it to annoy me and change to a lg-1.

Gary said:

er.. Guitarhero, you've just quoted his answer and the reasons for it.

:huh:

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Just trying to clarify. Surely the new Saint bash guard is spaced properly on the new cranks it was designed to work on. Seems sill if not.
edit: or am i goint to have to wait for the new SRS?
edit again: The Trek Session 88FR comes with new saint cranks and a MRP system 3, is this a flawed setup?

I looked up the 09 Saint review on Sicklines and guess what chainguide they set up the cranks and bash on?
http://www.sicklines.com/2008/06/26/preview-2009-shimano-saint/
oster_oops:


the 09 Saint bashguard looks like a mud trap and a half too.
You can just about make out that 2mm step (at the outer edge of the honeycomb) DW was talking about here:

If I understand DW correctly it would seem honeycomb is the correct distance from the chain but then the stepped (smooth) section is 2mm further out leaving an extra 2mm gap between the chainring and inside of the plate and is indeed a "silly" design.

I'd still still like to know why the SRS won't work properly with a smaller diameter bashguard? as long as it's big enough to overlap the part of the top guide that sits above the chain I honestly can't see why it wouldn't work.

Gary said:

I'd still still like to know why the SRS won't work properly with a smaller diameter bashguard? as long as it's big enough to overlap the part of the top guide that sits above the chain I honestly can't see why it wouldn't work.

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Basically, on '08 and older guides, it's not just that the bashguard needs to overlap the upper guide, it's that it needs to over lap the upper guide by a certain amount (can't recall the actual numbers).

In developing the guide years ago on the NORBA NCS circuit, I remember us running into the problem where if there wasn't sufficient overlap, the chain would occassionally derail when guys were super deep into their travel and pedaling (this mostly only affected top tier pros, as most schmoes like you and me aren't pedaling that deep into our travel; we're holding on for dear life). What happens in that situation is that the chain is effectively feeding from a really high angle onto the top of the chain ring, and it can flex the upper arm of the boomerang and pull it's way out of that upper guide block. (Note: the upper arm of the boomerang was originally designed to be somewhat flexible so that it could be slightly bent to fit all of the whack-job frame designs that existed back in the day).

Race Face apparently ran into this exact same problem in their first generation of the SRS clone. They have little - if any - overlap between the BG diameter and the upper guide block, and if you notice, the upper guide block got a big lateral extension put on it from the first generation to the second.

I'm no longer involved with e13, but by the looks of the '09/'10 guide, it appears as though Dave's made some changes to the upper guide piece to allow for a smaller bashring diameter going forward.

Hope this ancient historical information is helpful.

--JP

Thanks.

That did make a little more sense, I've always set up my chain guides so that the chain doesn't foul the top guide at all when it's taught and the bike's fully bottomed out. for the chain to force the boomerang to flex it'd have to be taught (under load) so I don't see that ever happening. (even less so as I rarely pedal anyway )