union question

For one, expect to have $ taken from your check monthly for union dues.

Arkayne said:

For one, expect to have ~$30+ taken from your check monthly for union dues.

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Yeah those $10 weekly dues were just GREAT when I was working at a grocery store in high school and making $4.25 an hour. It usually ended up being about 15% of my take home pay.

If you're lazy, Unions are great. If you're a hard worker, they suck.

if you're comfortable hating your coworkers, take it

Ask MMike...heh

$tinkle said:

if you're comfortable hating your coworkers, take it

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Da Peach said:

Ask MMike...heh

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http://ridemonkey.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125333

The job should be no different. It depends on the job and the union. But the devil is in the details in your benefits package. Unions usually have a better benefits package, whereas a non-union outfit will usually try to disguise a higher hourly wage at the expense of medical, dental, and retirement.

If a non-union outfit has these it's usually only to compete with the unions shops, and the wages are always going to hover around the unions wages, that are set by the sacrifice of union workers collectively bargaining.

Riding said:

If you're lazy, Unions are great. If you're a hard worker, they suck.

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Come work in my job for a week in the summer, you probably wouldn't last an hour....

Good intentions gone bad. Started off protecting employees from unscrupulous business owners. They've turned into license for workers to be shiftless and lazy. Yes thats a gross generalization.

Skookum said:

Come work in my job for a week in the summer, you probably wouldn't last an hour....

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would that include the mandatory 15 min poop break?

I have been a member of three unions:

1) UAW, late 1960s - stupid, locked up and bureaucratic. The other side of the coin was good pay.

2) Amalgamated Butchers and Meat Cutters, late 1960s - Controlled by the New Jersey Mob. Useless, did nothing but collect dues.

3) Whatever the house union was at MIT Instrumentation Laboratories/Draper Labs, 1969-1975 - small union, decent pay, almost no work rules and those never enforced, helped me avoid an hourly pay cut when I went back to school and remained working. Still some mob involvement, visible as numbers running.

Just like evaluating a job - find out the particulars.

cannondalejunky said:

i was reading the job description and under work conditions the first thing is says is "Typical work schedule of 8 hours per day, 5 days per week. Overtime can be expected and required as determined by management." i thought unions didn't work overtime

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They do, it just needs to be approved by the suits.

I was a "brother" in the United Steel Workers union for the summer of '97. I made a KILLING! And I got to nap!

I remember being threatened with a grievance once because I agreed to work over a holiday weekend when everyone else had already refused. Doubletime-and-a-half? Yes please.

Grieve away, brother.

They work plenty of overtime (in mining and construction anyway...). And I'm sure you'll be paid handsomely for it.

I was union when I worked for Costco as a youngin'. Started at 10/hr and Sundays paid 1.6. $16/hr for an 8 hr shift? Yes please.

Skookum said:

Come work in my job for a week in the summer, you probably wouldn't last an hour....

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OK, I'll bite, what do you do and how does the union make it possible for you to do that job better? Because that's my argument. And I'm sure I could do your job, assuming training, regardless of what it is and would be one of the hardest workers that don't get the proper acknowledgement because historically, the union keeps everyone at the same rate of pay, based on tenure, regardless of output.

I firmly believe that unions breed mediocrity by rewarding tenure over performance.

Jimmy Hoffa is Hide and Seek World Champion

I'm a member of one of the biggest unions, SEIU, and I think they are teh suck. They take 1.75% of my check and return no value. They basically protect the senior workers, regardless of whether or not they do their job. Everything is time based with them, not performance based. This is part of the reason the government is so damn inefficient

Plexico likes unions

Jeremy R said:

Jimmy Hoffa is Hide and Seek World Champion

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Went to dinner here for high school prom hoping to see his ghost.

Riding said:

OK, I'll bite, what do you do

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Roofer Local 54.

Riding said:

how does the union make it possible for you to do that job better?

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The money we pay goes for training, apprenticeship programs. Also we have superior medical benefits, that other union outfits DO NOT HAVE or will ever offer. Health is a pretty important issue when you have a physical job.

Riding said:

Because that's my argument.

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Which is generalized therefore flawed.

Riding said:

And I'm sure I could do your job, assuming training, regardless of what it is

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Come on down.... You're the next contestant...

Riding said:

would be one of the hardest workers that don't get the proper acknowledgement

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Doesn't matter non-union shops will pay there "top" guys $35/hr. We get paid $29/hr, but with our benefits our package is closer to $40/hr. Yah you'll get "proper acknowledgment"... Especially starting out as a scrub where you'll get a whopping $8/hr wage to start.

Riding said:

the union keeps everyone at the same rate of pay, based on tenure, regardless of output.

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FALSE. If you suck you may work for a while, but when the job ends you will disappear. Just like anywhere else. And you are correct, your wage will be fixed with a floor payment. The companies cannot pay you less than what is agreed, BUT you can earn more and companies can and do pay over scale.

Are there people who take advantage of a system? Sure, but i'll take that over ALL of us being taken advantage of by the system. Work harder for less gee that sounds like a swell idea. Just what industry loves, a disposable stupid workforce. Go ahead be a sheep, but when you retire penniless because you didn't have insurance or any pension, do i get to talk crap to you, that you had it coming?

Also another thing to remember is there are differences in Local and National level unions. Locals you can have more of control and be more pro-active in your particular unions endeavors. So essentially it takes more work, and usually means less influence, less money for contract time. But it means a union can have better control in the direction your union goes...

It really depends on the trade. In some areas, they offer some great apprenticeship programs and paid schooling. In others, they offer you an inflated wage and a black mark on your resume. Try getting a non-union job in Seattle after you've worked as a machinist as Boeing. 90% of shops will throw your resume away.
I choose to go non-union when I got out of school because an open shop can offer more opportunities for younger workers. They aren't required to promote based on tenure. I was given a huge open door after 3mo on the job because I showed the talent and initiative. 8 years later, and I'm making better than union wages and still get great benes.

johnbryanpeters said:

I have been a member of three unions:

1) UAW, late 1960s - stupid, locked up and bureaucratic. The other side of the coin was good pay.

2) Amalgamated Butchers and Meat Cutters, late 1960s - Controlled by the New Jersey Mob. Useless, did nothing but collect dues.

3) Whatever the house union was at MIT Instrumentation Laboratories/Draper Labs, 1969-1975 - small union, decent pay, almost no work rules and those never enforced, helped me avoid an hourly pay cut when I went back to school and remained working. Still some mob involvement, visible as numbers running.

Just like evaluating a job - find out the particulars.

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no unions during the industrial revolution?

I've worked for 2 unions (one in Tacoma, the other up in Alaska), and personally, neither did anything to help me. Maybe it was because I was doing a good job and didn't need their representation???

Now there has been talk about going with a union at the place my wife and I work at. Granted, I wouldn't be included (management has it "perks"), however, my wife would have the chance to vote for/against it, then join if she wanted to. As much as I don't care for or like unions, I tell her she should vote for it, because our employer has been doing loads of "taking" and not much "giving" in return. I feel it would be good to have an outsider negotiate for better "stuff" for her and the crew. Then again, if it was voted in, and us living in a "right to work" state, she wouldn't have to join, and apparently, she'd still receive all the negotiated benefits. Not that I like to stir the pot up, although it can be fun at times.

Now, about those 6 lottery numbers....................

junions benn berrry bery goot to me... big fat pension waiting for me when i turn 57

I'm in SEIU, which is designed to work for exactly half the people in it. The half that are below average.

My supervisor tells me constantly that he wishes he could give me pay increases because of my performance and productivity. But NOPE. Union negotiated away from that...

Skookum said:

responses

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I figured you were working with Tar, only things I could think of that you would say would suck in the Summer Roofing or Paving.

OK, I can see your points. So, I'll rephase mine and say that generally unions suck. Though there aren't too many responses you can provide on an internet forum these days that aren't generalizations so I didn't think I needed to put that in there.

Most of my experiences have been in Manufacturing where the unions muscle their way in then keep taking/taking/taking without ever giving back. They don't provide any of the trainng, the companies have always provided the training. 3 of the companies I used to work with are now closed in part due to the restrictions that the unions placed on them and they lost out to businesses in china.