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Flowpark Death

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Thats sucks, hope they wait until after winter. Must build Duthie quickly.
They had many trucks in there, they were busy surveying. If you go up towards 15th street, they have cleared brush along the fence line, if you're fimiliar with the faster XC trail that has the puddles nearby the houses, along there....

i find it interesting that this outfit was so tight lipped about the project. Nobody in construction does NOT know what's going on, and why they're doing a job. They know why they are there, they know what is going to happen, and they all were told to keep a lid on it.

Thinking it through a construction outfit is looking to keep their stuff from getting messed with, they probably fear retaliation from bikers for destroying the trails....
 
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oly

skin cooker for the hive
Dec 6, 2001
5,118
6
Witness relocation housing
They had many trucks in there, they were busy surveying. If you go up towards 15th street, they have cleared brush along the fence line, if you're fimiliar with the faster XC trail that has the puddles nearby the houses, along there....

i find it interesting that this outfit was so tight lipped about the project. Nobody in construction does NOT know what's going on, and why they're doing a job. They know why they are there, they know what is going to happen, and they all were told to keep a lid on it.

Thinking it through a construction outfit is looking to keep their stuff from getting messed with, they probably fear retaliation from bikers for destroying the trails....
Sounds like a conspiracy.
 

bockner

Monkey
Jun 21, 2005
380
0
bellevue, wa
its all about the super double secret "Runway 4"....shhhhhhhhh don't tell anyone...I think the port commisioner is in on it with his buddies.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Sounds like a conspiracy.
Ran into Daniel today at the Flowpark, he was sportin a new HT.

i don't want to believe it, but i think he might be in cahoots...:crazy:

its all about the super double secret "Runway 4"....shhhhhhhhh don't tell anyone...I think the port commisioner is in on it with his buddies.
It's going to be a secret lab sponsored by Anthonys home port where they're going to create lobster the size of elephants and salmon the size of whales....
 

CROW-BAR

Chimp
Dec 9, 2008
4
0
Marva
Sorry, if I'm offending some of you "builders". I drove 3 hours to hit that s??? and was less than impressed. Should have brot my urban bike. That place is wicked-out. From all the hype I was expecting something a little more than a bich ass kiddie jump line. Sorely disappointed. You all should check out the hidden lines at Volunteer park. More than just salad tossers up there nowadays. WeVe got a sick line that dumps out at the cemetary, look for it.

Anyhow,this is weak.

Later, I got shreddin to do and less whinin about progress. Hell yeah I want a 4 runway, how bout a fifth, speakin of a fifth, I'm hittin one right now.

I'm out
CB
 

bockner

Monkey
Jun 21, 2005
380
0
bellevue, wa
It's going to be a secret lab sponsored by Anthonys home port where they're going to create lobster the size of elephants and salmon the size of whales....[/QUOTE said:
Great..now its out in the open and a normal salmon will no longer satisfy the masses....we are all screwed!
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
This guy is definately in cahoots with the salmon...

Sorry, if I'm offending some of you "builders". I drove 3 hours to hit that s??? and was less than impressed. Should have brot my urban bike. That place is wicked-out. From all the hype I was expecting something a little more than a bich ass kiddie jump line. Sorely disappointed. You all should check out the hidden lines at Volunteer park. More than just salad tossers up there nowadays. WeVe got a sick line that dumps out at the cemetary, look for it.

Anyhow,this is weak.

Later, I got shreddin to do and less whinin about progress. Hell yeah I want a 4 runway, how bout a fifth, speakin of a fifth, I'm hittin one right now.

I'm out
CB
 

CrashMaster

Chimp
Mar 22, 2006
28
0
Sorry, if I'm offending some of you "builders". I drove 3 hours to hit that s??? and was less than impressed. Should have brot my urban bike. That place is wicked-out. From all the hype I was expecting something a little more than a bich ass kiddie jump line. Sorely disappointed.
driving 3 hours to get anywhere, except maybe whistler, is probably going to be disappointing.

you'd think that A) you'da done a little more research/inquiring before making the drive or B) not have believed the hype. How far into the new millienium do we have to get before people learn? Don't believe the hype!

ps - I am gonna be bummed when SST is gone. The 3 MINUTE drive for me is totally worth it.
 
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dirtmover

Monkey
Jun 14, 2005
178
0
Good luck with keeping you jumps at Volunteer park. Are you freaking serious, jumps that end at the cemetary? How long do you really think it will take before the parks department finds your oh so hidden line? SST is super fun and if you can't seem to find a line to enjoy I guess you can drive the 3 hours from Volunteer park.
 

DBR X6 RIDER

Turbo Monkey
While it would be a bummer to see the flowpark go, it is also a surprise/miracle that it's even there after 5+ years. While it OBVIOUSLY doesn't please everybody, it sure has helped countless others progress from nothing to something.

Last I heard, the only thing "hidden" at Volunteer Park is the sausage.;)

*edit* It would also be unfortunate if we lose good sections of singletrack in the park itself - there are some good loops in there that would be sorely missed.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
Oh, the hor-ror!:panic::panic:

The worse part is that it still won't lower the prices at Ivar's or Anthony's. This is possibly one of the signs of the apocalypse and repent, we should.
Did you know that Ivar Haglund is buried in that little old cemetary. At night he walks the trails and throws frozen fish chunks at unwary night riders.
 

ryanrider

Chimp
Nov 20, 2007
99
0
Damn!! I really hate to see SST go! I along with many others, first got into the riding scene there. Can't thank the builders enough for all the work they've put into the place. Maybe we can have a last gathering event deal. If its not already too late.....
 

DBR X6 RIDER

Turbo Monkey
I hardly have ridden there but I"m very surprised that everyone is so laid back about this. There was more crap flying around about the trails in Black Diamond and verify few knew about those trails.....:banghead:
Great point. I would guess since there's no official announcement/action, people are taking a wait-and-see approach. Kind of like the war on terror...the war on drugs...global warming...........perhaps.

Hard to believe, but I rode there <10x this past year. There have been tons of regional trails that have sprung up since its inception and I think, outside of the LOCAL locals, most riders have been riding at many different places more frequently.

IFO won't mourn the loss of such a place as much as I'll always remember the good times that have been had and the lessons learned in the time I've spent there. All the same, if there is a petition to be signed, you can count on my name being on it. I am very compelled to see where this current event is leading.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
I hardly have ridden there but I"m very surprised that everyone is so laid back about this. There was more crap flying around about the trails in Black Diamond and verify few knew about those trails.....:banghead:
i'm surprised too. There is nobody to validate this, but a buddy was mentioning to me he thought that South Seatac was the most popular trail system in the greater Seattle area. With all of the events that get held it's hard to argue the numbers, so it might be true, and if not there is still a significant amount of riders from every aspect of riding. Cyclocross, BMX, XC, FR.

Anyways it's probably true that people are waiting for confirmation. i believe my speculation, because i know i'm only full of crap on average of 30% and 10% of that i actually am foolish enough to believe my own crap. Twist my arm and i'd have to say confirmation is going to come in the form of heavy equipment being moved in and flattening the area.

There is one thing i am very qualified to speak to on this though. The outifit that is doing the surveying is a non-union outfit. i managed to get that much information. If that company is not paying their guys prevailing wage, the union representing surveyors can call up the DOT or whoever is doing the work and can even get a stop work order until they start paying their guys the full amount. It won't stop what they're doing, but it's a completely legal way of saying F.U. to the companies that may be demolishing the trails....
 
This just irks me to no end. What do people really need to wait for before someone who cares about that trail system steps up? Everyone knows that 509 is going to take a chunk out of the flow park. So why not get in there and start negotiating with the City and WSDOT.

I'm guess in the end everyone will start calling after the bulldozers have shown up after it's too late.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
This just irks me to no end. What do people really need to wait for before someone who cares about that trail system steps up? Everyone knows that 509 is going to take a chunk out of the flow park. So why not get in there and start negotiating with the City and WSDOT.

I'm guess in the end everyone will start calling after the bulldozers have shown up after it's too late.
Maybe so.

But that's the way it is locally.

i've had an idea that i've given to Evergreen and i've shared with others, but i don't know if it will get off the ground.

This might be long but bear with me, because i think it's a good idea for ALL trail systems.

When i heard about Dash Point CAMP meetings where they were going to change their plans and close down trails, i banged the drum. Lots of people showed to the meeting, and with emails and Evergreens involvement State Parks changed course. But there was a time when i was trying to get someone who lived close to Dash Point to be a "Coalition Leader". Just someone who could meet all the land managers, meet Jon Kennedy and John Lang at Evergreen, and know the trail system. Basically all that person needs to do is keep an ear to the ground and if there's and issue or trouble, use the internet and let people know what the deal is.

Things turned out ok, but right now Dash Point is still in a limbo sort of. i've stepped away from it because i've got other projects and stuff i want to do. But it wouldn't be a huge job if that's the only job someone would want to get into in advocacy. Right now Phil from Phils Cycle in Federal Way is doing it, but i know he would gladly let someone to help carry the torch.

So my advice would be for someone who really want's to make a difference for Seatac or ANY trail system would be to get involved. Some trails are going to be different than others, like Seatac specifically the jumps and downhill lines because they never got approved. But it's not like everyone doesn't know about them, and it couldn't hurt to do the legwork and find out what's really going on. Keep people informed and what options are available.

This already happens on trails like Banner Forest, Capitol Forest, and the trails that Evergreen has officially taken responsibility to like Tiger, and Colonnade, Mid-Fork Snoqualmie....

But wouldn't it be convenient to use Evergreen's Trail Wiki, or a Mt. Bike Forum that only had trails in it. Lake Sawyer, Tapeworm, Tokul, South Seatac, Duthie on and on... That way people could go there to find out specific issues of what's going on with a trail, and if something important was going down people could link the info to RM, MTBR, Pinkbike etc...

Anyways take my advice it's not like i'm gonna use it. It's not like i don't care, i don't want to see Seatac or other trails go away. But i cannot run after every cause, and i got stuff on my plate. If somebody out there steps up to be a hero and there is somewhere to go for a meeting to voice an opinion, i'll show.

But yah i would think that everyone should think about adopting the trails that are close to them, that they really like. Take some ownership.
 
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fuzzycatnuts

Monkey
Dec 14, 2005
944
0
I know sst is just a bich ass kiddie jump area, but I am going to miss it.






I hope I can ride it before it gets flat, its only a 25 min drive for me.

Lota of hours digging out there by many people, 4-5 years to build it up to how it is now. I always knew that someday it would be gone though, this was always in the back of my mind when I was there, but I think I got my "moneys worth" as far as riding at the flowpark goes. Very sad to see it die but thats just how it goes.

Now, here is the good news,

from an email I got from the man in charge of building Duthie, :

"Here are the measurements we made&#8230;

Area comparison&#8230;


Total SSeatac flowpark area: 2.2 acres

Duthie flowpark area&#8230;&#8230;:


7.5 acres &#8211; so lots of opportunity!

Length comparison&#8230;



· SST: Longest flowpark line from very top to the bottom: 850 ft

· SST: Most used flowpark lines (entrance 2/3s the way up the road): 520 ft

· SST: The DH line from the bottom of the flowpark down to the paved creek trail: <500 ft

· SST: The entire DH line from the top of the flowpark all the way to the paved creek trail is ~1200 ft

· Colonnade: K-Line = 420 ft, Nick&#8217;s Kicks = 450 ft, the longest line is the Offramp connected to Pip&#8217;s Hips = almost 700 ft

· Duthie: flow lines betw 1100 and 1200 ft (depends how many curves y&#8217;all throw in)

· Duthie: flow line could be >1200 ft

·
· Duthie: all natural flowy DH line could be 1500 ft ...good enough for a mini-D?



Elevation drop comparison&#8230;



· SST Longest flowpark line from very top to the bottom drops 60-70 ft

· SST Most used flowpark lines (entrance 2/3s the way up the road) drop 40-50 ft

· Colonnade from top of shed south to bottom of Pip&#8217;s Hips drops 60 ft

· Colonnade from top of shed to bottom of K-Line drops 45 ft

· Duthie Flowpark drops 70 ft

· Duthie flowy DH line drops almost 100 ft"


http://evergreenmtb.org/recreation/calendar.php?event_id=7310
 
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There is one thing i am very qualified to speak to on this though. The outifit that is doing the surveying is a non-union outfit. i managed to get that much information. If that company is not paying their guys prevailing wage, the union representing surveyors can call up the DOT or whoever is doing the work and can even get a stop work order until they start paying their guys the full amount. It won't stop what they're doing, but it's a completely legal way of saying F.U. to the companies that may be demolishing the trails....
But is there a way for us to help make this happen? It sounds like you have to be in with the unions.
 

MMike

A fowl peckerwood.
Sep 5, 2001
18,207
105
just sittin' here drinkin' scotch
Meh....it's for the best. Maybe now you guys will stop wasting your time with all of this "mountain bicycling riding"...making the jumpies and the hoppies.
You can now stop being a drain on society and do something meaningful. And maybe Skookum will stop cluttering up the undersides of elevated expressways. Ruined a perfectly good vacant lot, he did. And he needs a haircut.
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
But is there a way for us to help make this happen? It sounds like you have to be in with the unions.
No you don't have to be in a union. But if you're working on a government "jorb" they have to pay you prevailing wage. Prevailing wage is set by the union wage.

So non-union shops almost never pay their guys union wages so they'll have to back-pay the workers the difference.

So you would find out the union call the head guy, tell them the company and job, and the union will do the rest of the work. Since this is such a low profile job, it's doubtful it will even hold anything up though.

Like i said IF indeed the freeway is going in, i just cannot see much anyone can do to stop it from happening.

The best thing anyone can do is to seek out the land managers, find out what really is happening, what the time schedule is, are they open to the continued use of mountain bikes for the park.
 

coiler7

Monkey
May 30, 2005
133
0
Kent, WA
Approval of the following Agenda Item recommended at the October 1, 2002 Study Session for placement on this Consent Agenda:Agenda Bill #2216
A Motion authorizing the City Manager to sign a Letter of Understanding (LOU) with the Washington State Department of Transportation (WSDOT) for the Des Moines Creek Park Land Trade - Parks & Recreation

Summary: WSDOT has determined they need a small part of Des Moines Creek Park for the extension of SR 509 from South 188th Street. WSDOT and the City have already agreed to the land trade by Council action at the November 14, 2000 Regular Council Meeting (RCM). This LOU states that the City agrees to convey to WSDOT approximately 4.6 acres of land in Des Moines Creek Park. WSDOT would convey to the City approximately 4.6 acres of land adjacent to Des Moines Creek Park on its west side or at another mutually agreeable location as mitigation for direct taking of Des Moines Creek Park 4(f) lands. WSDOT may have an obligation to compensate the City for a parcel of land approximately 2.1 acres in size. WSDOT agrees to convey a parcel of similar value to the City as mitigation for indirect effects to Des Moines Creek Park 4(f) lands.

The park trail and parking lot will not be taken out of operation but will have the freeway in use above them. WSDOT will also compensate the City with design and construction of a bike trail from Des Moines Creek trailhead north to South 188th Street.

MOVED BY BRENNAN, SECONDED BY ANDERSON TO ACCEPT THE CONSENT AGENDA AS PRESENTED.

MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.


-----------------------------------------------------------------------

I bet the WSDOT, Seatac & DM officials are already open to some kind of user-built, well-planned MTB skills park to replace some of the distruction.... plus some of us could start the SST VBP
 

Koiler

Chimp
May 18, 2008
2
0
oh and THEN traffic congestion will cease. I see how it works!
one more road! one more bridge, one more crack hit, THEN I'll be satisfied.
 

coiler7

Monkey
May 30, 2005
133
0
Kent, WA
i just heard from a reliable source,,,
"A colition of south end cities are looking at this area for a new jail."
...on the park property that's not going to be part of the 509 frwy

:rant:
:banghead:
 

Skookum

bikey's is cool
Jul 26, 2002
10,184
0
in a bear cave
i just heard from a reliable source,,,
"A colition of south end cities are looking at this area for a new jail."
...on the park property that's not going to be part of the 509 frwy

:rant:
:banghead:
You could easily start up a neighborhood petition against something like that. Nobody want's a jail next to their place... There's already a Federal Prison up on the hill. They JUST put a jail over at Kent, sheesh how many jails do they want to build anyways....