Frame Builder(Designer) Education level?
- Thread starter Rover Nick
- Start date
Scrap it all and learn to train dolphins to find gold in the Caribbean.
Chicks love that.
Chicks love that.
FINALLY someone is making sense....
This is an ignorant statement.
SolidWorks is a great CAD package IMO. I'm fluent in SW, UG NX3, and some pro-e. Each CAD package accels in different areas. Anything from autodesk is **** in my opinion, so I'd stay away from Inventor. But nomatter what you learn on, transitioning to any package is easy once you have a mindset for solid modeling. After that, it's merely learning where all the buttons are and how the commands work.
These designs are all done from SolidWorks
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Catia and soildworks are the same thing. You only use catia if you need .000000000000000000000000001 accuracy, there amazing equations, or you have cash to burn. Soildworks is more than capable or designing consumer goods.
[TA];3132925 said:
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oh yeah, i did a stint in the bike industry as a frame and components design engineer for a large bicycle company. It was great, i switched industries..... and hopefully I will get the opportunity to go back into the bike industry some day. Any openings TA? HA.
People there are great, they all have a passion for the same thing, BIKES. That makes work a great place to be. Like TA said, you have the chance to design things that you are passionate about. The pay is **** and the hours are long, but in the end you actually enjoy what you do. Everything isnt about the Benjamins, the quality of life is very good.
People there are great, they all have a passion for the same thing, BIKES. That makes work a great place to be. Like TA said, you have the chance to design things that you are passionate about. The pay is **** and the hours are long, but in the end you actually enjoy what you do. Everything isnt about the Benjamins, the quality of life is very good.
Well that's not QUITE accurate. On the right track....but not quite accurate.
Dassault bought Solidworks and used a lot of its functionality to create CATIA v5. CATIA will still blow SWx out of the water when it comes to capabilty as far as assembly complexity (and some functionality) goes. Swx is good enough for most applications. But while it could be done, it would making designing an entire commercial airliner more difficult than it already is. CATIA is for the big boys....[/QUOTE]
You are 100% correct. The outdoor rec industry doesn’t need something as powerful as catia. It’s all about choosing the right tool for the job. Seats of SW are cheap and i don’t need catia to design bindings. I was just trying to state that don't discount SW as a more than capable tool for engineering design. Cosmos on the other hand, can talk a long walk of a short pier.
Dassault bought Solidworks and used a lot of its functionality to create CATIA v5. CATIA will still blow SWx out of the water when it comes to capabilty as far as assembly complexity (and some functionality) goes. Swx is good enough for most applications. But while it could be done, it would making designing an entire commercial airliner more difficult than it already is. CATIA is for the big boys....[/QUOTE]
You are 100% correct. The outdoor rec industry doesn’t need something as powerful as catia. It’s all about choosing the right tool for the job. Seats of SW are cheap and i don’t need catia to design bindings. I was just trying to state that don't discount SW as a more than capable tool for engineering design. Cosmos on the other hand, can talk a long walk of a short pier.
I've used SolidWorks for years. It's capable, but it has shortcomings for large scale assemblies. The use of true top-down design is where Pro E and (I think) Catia show their true colors and leave SW in the dust. SW also can let you get away with costly errors that would otherwise cause major problems in Pro E.
The only place SW pulls ahead in my opinion is in rapidly producing detail drawings with lots of thread callouts, and for doing animations/graphics. The graphics thing also makes the program REALLY slow and unstable compared to the Pro E....it drags like an overweight mule and crashes a lot.
I'd probably wouldn't use something like Pro E for a bike frame or componentry as it's not complex enough to warrant it, but it could certainly be done. When you have 1000+ parts in an assembly, it's time for Pro E, but call me an idiot all you want.
The only place SW pulls ahead in my opinion is in rapidly producing detail drawings with lots of thread callouts, and for doing animations/graphics. The graphics thing also makes the program REALLY slow and unstable compared to the Pro E....it drags like an overweight mule and crashes a lot.
I'd probably wouldn't use something like Pro E for a bike frame or componentry as it's not complex enough to warrant it, but it could certainly be done. When you have 1000+ parts in an assembly, it's time for Pro E, but call me an idiot all you want.
Sorry, those were harsh words and not warranted.
Now, I think SW is a great design package at what it is intended for. Like you said, if you want to do nasty assemblies something more powerful is required. For what I design and the bike industry designs, SW is powerful enough ( i actually wish it had better surfacing options, in 09 it will be better).
After learning one CAD program and understanding how to design, there all the same in the end really, (except pro-e, I dont know if wildfire changed this, I think it did). Its human input and pretty products that come out the back end.
So to the original poster .Mechanical or materials engineering would get you a long way into finding a place in an established bike company. Internships and coops are necessary if youre fresh out of school with no experience.
Solidworks is the easiest I've found for basic part design, but CATIA kills it when it comes to assembly, rendering, animation, tool path simulation, etc.
the add-ons to CATIA are incredible. being able to write G-code from the same program you design in saves a lot of headaches from converting from solidworks to something like mastercam.
doing large assemblies in CATIA is much easier. it doesn't tend to bog down or randomly crash as the few versions of solidworks I've used have.
Kyle,
Since desalt owns both, 2008 and 2009 versions of SW are very similar to catia. I think each borrowed something from the other. No doubt is catia a more powerful program, it also comes with the price tag involved. If you can jockey catia, you can jockey SW, and vice versa. In the end, you are still jockeying some code to get what you want.
I am not really a SW nut hugger. I toss my mouse at the screen daily at the program..... This is like debating over a boxxer team vs. boxxer wc. We all know one is better, both get you to the same point, one is blingyer than the other, one cost way more than the other, but in the end, it all comes down to the user and there needs.
I hear that. No matter what program I'm using. Pro E has PLENTY of quirks, believe me. It doesn't hold your hand through everything the way SW does by presenting you with almost every available option after you've made a feature. You kinda need to know what you're doing before you do it. Errors also don't sit well with it, at all. Everything must be resolved properly for you to do anything.
Back on track, just do Mechanical. You'll have far more options and having options = ending up happier.
Get an ME. Then get an MBA to make sure you're not a CAD monkey forever (unless you want to be a CAD monkey, which is totally cool).
You don't need anything but space and cash to try to build bikes, skis, sex toys, etc. yourself, but if you want to actually get into the industry and work on anything of scale you'll need that ME and bring it to BigAssBikeCorp.
You don't need anything but space and cash to try to build bikes, skis, sex toys, etc. yourself, but if you want to actually get into the industry and work on anything of scale you'll need that ME and bring it to BigAssBikeCorp.
being a product manager is a cool job too. A lot of times the product manager has a designer and an engineer under him and has the creative control over the design.
I hear being president of the company is a good job too.
If you've ever found yourself saying thinking that you could use an extra million or so laying around, becoming a CEO may be the thing for you.
I'm going to apply to be king.
Get into a field that matters.
its good to be da king
like...bikes?
Sorry to say, but....no.
Get into the alternative energy field of engineering. These low gas prices are just temporary. Obama is going to be putting lots of money towards research in alot of areas. I'm involved in a tidal turbine project at my university and 1mil just came down the pipe. I love bikes more than anything, but I can't honestly imagine looking back on my deathbed and being happy that all I did was make toys.
Like medicine, alternative energy, communications.......that sort of thing.
I myself am an ME for a solar engineering company. Couldn't be happier.
What about Fox?
I find bikes to be a potentially very simple solution to a vast amount of problems in todays world, especially in America. Whats wrong with getting more people on bikes? Granted, I'm talking about the grand scheme of people in the country, not the .001% that are looking for the latest suspension design.
![[TA]](/data/avatars/m/32/32142.jpg?1299268217){kind=avatar}
wow, this is a tough crowd... I find my bike job very fulfilling. The nice thing about working for a privately owned civilian company is that my life doesn't depend on government contracts or pissy shareholders. Also keep in mind that if you do pick a sweet arse major like ME its quite easy to move to new industry's, plus you could even get a BS in ME then go to medical school, law school, or get an MBA. I'll probably be looking into an MBA in the next year or so...
Why does the entire population have to own $4,000 bikes? What we're talking about (or so I thought) was new expensive, high-end, high-tech bike engineering and design. I'm all for getting everyone into riding bikes, but the type of work we're talking about here doesn't help reach that goal in a realistic and logical sense. It's like saying you want to get everyone in a pair of shoes, but they have to be $250 Nike crosstrainers.
Of course it's fulfilling to you personally. And that's great. But in comparison to developing artificial limbs or solar energy, it's not like building bikes is changing the face of humanity or anything. They are a leisure item....unless you're a bike courrier I guess......[TA];3135215 said:
This is exactly what I was referring to. It is the entire problem with cycling culture in America. Bikes are immediately dismissed as a leisure item. Yes, it is what we are concerned with here, but in the 2 blanket statements above, I felt it was worth addressing.
If the over 70% of car trips done in this country that are under 2 miles, were done by bicycle, I would consider that a change that 'matters'. A more socially, economically, and environmentally sound practice. Sounds like something that can matter to me. And if the $4,000 bikes develop technology that trickles down to $250 bikes, then whats so bad about that?
This of course is just my take on it from an ID perspective. (to get back to topic instead of bantering over software)
Of course if everyone went into fields like alternative energy, artificial limbs, etc then we'd all be f'd when we went bike shopping. Don't get me wrong I'd like to get involved with bike designing as well and the great thing about an ME degree is that it is broad in its possible applications. So like everyone has said maybe steer away from just the Aero degree unless you are sure that is what you want to be doing in 20 years.
Let's also keep in mind that company's use revenue from the pricey techie bikes to fund things like world bicycle relief, IMBA, one world 2 wheels, and all sorts of other trail building and community out reach programs. Just because my job is to develop new technologies for pricey bikes doesn't mean that my efforts aren't making our world a better place in some way.
Mr. Brian Piper,
I agree whole-heartedly with what you say, however, given our current economic situation, it makes more sense to try to get into a more economically beneficial area of study, especially for a fresh out-of-school engineer/designer. The key word, of course, is MORE. Not saying bikes aren't a great solution to many geological and economical issues, but being in other fields (such as alt. energy, medicine, etc.) has a much greater impact on the way the world operates at this time. Not only are these areas very important to the end user, but research and development in these fields are HEAVILY supported by government agencies, organizations, etc. My company receives several million dollars a year from the government and other alt. energy organizations for various research and development projects, which is one main reason why my company is still expanding, despite the current economy being in distress.
So, the reason I say to get into a more "important" field, it's not only to provide fulfillment for yourself and making a change on society, but also to ensure you'll have a roof over your head and food on the table at the end of the day. That's all.
Love,
Joe
I agree whole-heartedly with what you say, however, given our current economic situation, it makes more sense to try to get into a more economically beneficial area of study, especially for a fresh out-of-school engineer/designer. The key word, of course, is MORE. Not saying bikes aren't a great solution to many geological and economical issues, but being in other fields (such as alt. energy, medicine, etc.) has a much greater impact on the way the world operates at this time. Not only are these areas very important to the end user, but research and development in these fields are HEAVILY supported by government agencies, organizations, etc. My company receives several million dollars a year from the government and other alt. energy organizations for various research and development projects, which is one main reason why my company is still expanding, despite the current economy being in distress.
So, the reason I say to get into a more "important" field, it's not only to provide fulfillment for yourself and making a change on society, but also to ensure you'll have a roof over your head and food on the table at the end of the day. That's all.
Love,
Joe
Dear Joe,
I'm happy your happy. I think I might be happy designing bikes one day, and hope that you will be happy that I'm happy. You get money for crazy techie stuff, and hopefully people in the bike industry will get money for bike paths, parking, and programs (although I think your industry has the upper hand on that one...) Lovely.
-Brian
I'm happy your happy. I think I might be happy designing bikes one day, and hope that you will be happy that I'm happy. You get money for crazy techie stuff, and hopefully people in the bike industry will get money for bike paths, parking, and programs (although I think your industry has the upper hand on that one...) Lovely.
-Brian
Personally, I think "making a living" is over-rated.
I'm still alive. Maybe more alive than ever. Sure, I don't take home enough money to buy bullsh*t bougie consumer goods that won't make me happy, or the world a better place. I can't exactly buy a house, or a "new car" right now (who can?).
That's not the point of life, as far as I can see it though.
Don't get into the bike industry as a career choice, get into it because it might make you happy... Don't live only for the future. Live for right now too. If I die tomorrow, I'll be happy.
I'm still alive. Maybe more alive than ever. Sure, I don't take home enough money to buy bullsh*t bougie consumer goods that won't make me happy, or the world a better place. I can't exactly buy a house, or a "new car" right now (who can?).
That's not the point of life, as far as I can see it though.
Don't get into the bike industry as a career choice, get into it because it might make you happy... Don't live only for the future. Live for right now too. If I die tomorrow, I'll be happy.
Mickey, while I do agree with you on this, it doesn't necessarily apply to every situation. Sometimes you have to look out for more than just #1. If you have a family and are raising kids, all the happiness in the world isn't gonna put food on the table (unless you're a farmer
). In this situation working a low paying job just because you love it more than anything else is kinda irresponsible. Is that to say you couldn't support a family if you work in the bike industry? Not at all - there are plenty of people who do it. It just might not be as easy as other kinds of employment may be. That being said, not everyone wants a family. Each person has to find their own path in life.
John, ask anyone who knows me. I shouldn't and don't intend to intentionally procreate.
That's like saying that car racing doesn't benefit the owner of a family sedan, or that the space program doesn't benefit society in general. They do.
While bikes are neither the space program nor the most ubiquitos vehicle on the planet, the engineering that goes into high end bikes and race development does end up benefitting the end user.
Really sloppy quick examples.
Velcro - NASA. http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinfaq.htm
Sticky Winter Tire compounds and water shedding designs came directly from race development programs.
I never said they didn't benefit the end user completely........however when weighing input vs. output in terms of work effort and beneficial effects on society, bikes are pretty low on the list.
This is where we disagree. The amount of money the space program or an F1 program takes to develop velcro or better fuel mileage is astronomical compared to what it costs to develop a high end bike. Disc brakes on bikes, easy to use trigger shifting and even better frame materials have all come from comparitively cheap programs.
Have you ever been to china, japan or the netherlands? Bikes are everywhere. People, on a massive scale, benefit from bike development. Whether it be safer parts, longer lasting parts or a simply a better experience on their way to the grocery store, bikes do matter.
Check out Hans Rey's wheel's for life program if you want to see how much difference a bicycle can actually make. It may sound cheesy, but a decently operating, long last bicycle really can change lives.
http://wheels4life.org/