hot cup of stfu declared unconstitutional

Secret Squirrel said:

uh....this is how...



9/11: perpetrated by people not born in US = love to hate our liberties


^^ I'd say that's a pretty good extrapolation of your quote.

But maybe the thc is getting to you...

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That is not the single cause, but it is one of them. From dictionary.com

Infidel
–noun 1. Religion. a. a person who does not accept a particular faith, esp. Christianity.
b. (in Christian use) an unbeliever, esp. a Muslim.
c. (in Muslim use) a person who does not accept the Islamic faith; kaffir.

Extremist muslims (much like the KKK) misread the texts of their faith and succumb to psychological manipuliation due to beliefs of their peers (You arent born a KKK memeber and you arent born a terrorist, you are taught that mindset by your peers and experiences). We have the freedom to practice whatever religion we wish, women can dress how they wish and have the same liberties men do. Extremist muslims dont like this and therefore hate america (due to those liberties). If this were not the case, why is the word infidel used to describe americans?
Once again, while this specific post does pertain partially to religion, why do you insist on bringing the thread off course?

Defenestrated said:

my argument was to get rid of it based on the fact that nobody cares

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Ok, I'd like to sort of agree with this. I'm still in HS, and i can honestly say, that most kids here really don't care if they say the pledge or not. It doesn't really mean anything to most of them. they just say it because, that's just custom. we do it everyday, it's just part of the schedule. and we still have a moment of silence. Again, just part of the schedule. Now I would say that it doesn't matter if we say it or not, but as soon as i do, someone will come bashing me about how I "don't respect my elders, and the people that fought for my freedom and all that." Well, my brother's in the Army and he just recently came back from over there. i respect him very much and all the people over there with him. i really do. Thank you to all the armed forces currently serving(and those not serving anymore). I really don't get WHY people these days are trying to ban the pledge and silence. They don't even CARE about the kids. they don't matter. It's the fact that the kids are saying it. Has anyone even asked the KIDS if they WANT to say this? And then ask them WHY? How about the kids that want to say it, say it, and the ones that dont want to, dont say it? Is that so bad? Does it really need to be Made a LAW?
I wonder how much crap i'm gonna get for this?

MTBracer said:

I wonder how much crap i'm gonna get for this?

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I think you just said people should be free to do what they want. I couldn't agree more.

BTW, I object to a moment of silence in public schools.

I want my rights respected, so if you want a moment of silence, you should homeschool your kids.

thcrob said:

That is not the single cause, but it is one of them. From dictionary.com

Infidel
–noun 1. Religion. a. a person who does not accept a particular faith, esp. Christianity.
b. (in Christian use) an unbeliever, esp. a Muslim.
c. (in Muslim use) a person who does not accept the Islamic faith; kaffir.

Extremist muslims (much like the KKK) misread the texts of their faith and succumb to psychological manipuliation due to beliefs of their peers (You arent born a KKK memeber and you arent born a terrorist, you are taught that mindset by your peers and experiences). We have the freedom to practice whatever religion we wish, women can dress how they wish and have the same liberties men do. Extremist muslims dont like this and therefore hate america (due to those liberties). If this were not the case, why is the word infidel used to describe americans?
Once again, while this specific post does pertain partially to religion, why do you insist on bringing the thread off course?

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Thanks for the dictionary lecture. Your tertiary mentioning of why people hate us brought it up. I don't need a freakin' civics lesson, but thanks for the thought. I don't insist on derailing, just pointing out that you indeed left the door open for allah to sneak in.


See what I did there?



Prolly not...

thcrob said:

What is your view towards the muslim school getting tax money for funding?

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I'm opposed to it.

You can holster your caps lock now.

MTBracer said:

Ok, I'd like to sort of agree with this. I'm still in HS, and i can honestly say, that most kids here really don't care if they say the pledge or not. It doesn't really mean anything to most of them. they just say it because, that's just custom. we do it everyday, it's just part of the schedule. and we still have a moment of silence. Again, just part of the schedule. Now I would say that it doesn't matter if we say it or not, but as soon as i do, someone will come bashing me about how I "don't respect my elders, and the people that fought for my freedom and all that." Well, my brother's in the Army and he just recently came back from over there. i respect him very much and all the people over there with him. i really do. Thank you to all the armed forces currently serving(and those not serving anymore). I really don't get WHY people these days are trying to ban the pledge and silence. They don't even CARE about the kids. they don't matter. It's the fact that the kids are saying it. Has anyone even asked the KIDS if they WANT to say this? And then ask them WHY? How about the kids that want to say it, say it, and the ones that dont want to, dont say it? Is that so bad? Does it really need to be Made a LAW?
I wonder how much crap i'm gonna get for this?

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"It doesn't matter, becaaaaause they don't know what their saying! The pledge is basically morning coffee for 5th graders. '...with liberty and justice for all.' FVCK, I'm in school!!! Can we say it again?!? I need another cup!"

-Lewis Black

RenegadeRick said:

I think you just said people should be free to do what they want. I couldn't agree more.

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I agree. Sadly, this is Amerika. Land where our freedoms are slowly being taken from us by people who have special interests and feel like their opinion matters more than others (who have an equally valid opinion). Keep in mind, I used opinion, since thats what both sides argue. Take a look at Ohio's argument. his argument is mainly against christianity.
His argument is that his beliefs (apparently atheism) should be pushed upon others because he feels that they are pushing their beliefs on him (apparently a moment of silence or saying "god" is considered prayer). After all, this country was founded with God in mind (deists believe in god as a clockmaker, not as god with jesus being his son and performing magic).

Does anyone else see a contradiction in arguments such as he presents? Becuase I certainly do.

Back to the post I was replying to. The reason we arent asked is because we are stupid! When we are asked our opinion doesnt matter. The politicians we elect consider us smart enough to vote for the people running the country,but not smart enough to have our opinion matter(look at the bailout going through, and others planned, even though the majority dont agree with it). Strange. We're smart when we benefit them, but not when they are in office. Once our elected officials are in office we are no longer smart enough to work things out, we must admit our ignorance and follow the laws put in place to protect us from ourselves. In short, our opinions no longer matter for the 2-4 years after elections.

thcrob said:

His argument is that his beliefs (apparently atheism) should be pushed upon others because he feels that they are pushing their beliefs on him (apparently a moment of silence or saying "god" is considered prayer).

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It's called separation of church and state for a reason. And he's not pushing atheism. Just as the state should not push Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Cuminyermomism....in any form.

thcrob said:

By telling people they can't have a moment of silence, (3-10 seconds in which to do what they wish) because you think it's prayer and you dont like prayer because it's forcing their religious beliefs on you, are you not forcing your religious beliefs on other people?

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Try harder. No one is currently preventing anyone from praying. There are countless moments during any day when students can pray if they choose. You seem to be saying that any time I restrict a student from praying, I'm am imposing my beliefs on them. When it's their turn to perform a math problem, to speak to the class, are they allowed to scream "no, I'm praying right now!"? No, because we have designated that time for other purposes.

If you can't find 3-10 seconds between classes, during study hall, during lunch, before school or after school, god probably doesn't want your retarded ass anyway.

Secret Squirrel said:

It's called separation of church and state for a reason. And he's not pushing atheism. Just as the state should not push Islam, Buddhism, Hinduism, Cuminyermomism....in any form.

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a moment of silence is not an issue of speration of church and state.... How do you guys come to the conclusion that being silent and reflecting on something (anything really) is prayer? Is it because most people pray silently?

There is no doubt that Jesus ate food... he claimed he was the son of God. Is eating food religious because some crazy prophet also ate food? come on man.

ohio said:

Try harder. No one is currently preventing anyone from praying. There are countless moments during any day when students can pray if they choose. You seem to be saying that any time I restrict a student from praying, I'm am imposing my beliefs on them. When it's their turn to perform a math problem, to speak to the class, are they allowed to scream "no, I'm praying right now!"? No, because we have designated that time for other purposes.

If you can't find 3-10 seconds between classes, during study hall, during lunch, before school or after school, god probably doesn't want your retarded ass anyway.

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Um... apparently you missed the post where I stated I am an atheist. I just respect other people's opinions, even if they are incorrect.

Also, you admitted you have an issue with GOD being printed on currency and that leads me to assume that you have an issue with GOD being in the pledge. Why is this an issue? The country was founded on beliefs of a God. Therefore it makes sense to have "In God we trust" on the national currency. Please show me how this is NOT the case.

Ah...that's why when I was in elementary school, they called it "Silent Study"...well...seems they circumvented that little trip-step...

Wait, I was actually doing math during this time when I was supposed to be thinking about religion you say? How dare I...

Ya know what, it doesn't even matter anymore. Justice ruled. Game over. Now for the appeal process. I'm making my banners and getting my airhorn tuned up for when I'm in the gallery.

I believe that saying the Pledge and having a moment of silence is just showing that you love your country. That is all. Nothing more. If YOU want to pick out parts of it and say they're against your religion, get the hell out of here, we don't want you here anymore. Im atheist, I say the pledge. If it has ANY kind of religious meaning, I disregard this and say it anyways. Now, WHY can't other people do this?

MTBracer said:

I believe that saying the Pledge and having a moment of silence is just showing that you love your country. That is all. Nothing more. If YOU want to pick out parts of it and say they're against your religion, get the hell out of here, we don't want you here anymore. Im atheist, I say the pledge. If it has ANY kind of religious meaning, I disregard this and say it anyways. Now, WHY can't other people do this?

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You pick that up from your brother?

thcrob said:

Um... apparently you missed the post where I stated I am an atheist.

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Perhaps you're not familiar with the use of the term "you" in place of the formal "one."

thcrob said:

I just respect other people's opinions, even if they are incorrect.

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You just can't make this stuff up. Gold.

MTBracer said:

I believe that saying the Pledge and having a moment of silence is just showing that you love your country. That is all. Nothing more. If YOU want to pick out parts of it and say they're against your religion, get the hell out of here, we don't want you here anymore. Im atheist, I say the pledge. If it has ANY kind of religious meaning, I disregard this and say it anyways. Now, WHY can't other people do this?

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sadly, your brother is also fighting for the freedom of the people who wish to complain about everything. This freedom includes being able to complain about whatever they wish, including the word God.

ohio said:

Perhaps you're not familiar with the use of the term "you" in place of the formal "one."



You just can't make this stuff up. Gold.

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the post quoted YOU, the post was directed towards YOU, the post was not GENERAL. if it were general as in "I would expect one to misunderstand my posts and consider me a christian" then i would have used "One." This was not the case. I chose YOU because I was directing the post towards the person I quoted.

And you cant make it up. You can disagree totally with someone's views, say they are incorrect, and still respect their opinion. I disagree with welfare, I think it's a waste of resources, I disagree with spending as much as we do keeping old people alive (5x as much as keeping children alive) and if you think about it, both are usually an incorrect practice. I have respect for people who think that keeping old people alive is a good thing. I also have respect for the opinions of peopel who believe welfare is fine th way it is. I dont have to agree with them.

Careful team, these boys is varsity.

ohio said:

Careful team, these boys is varsity.

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nothing else from you?

Well since you've only absorbed every 4th word I've written I thought I might try pictures instead.

Tell us more about welfare. Please.

ohio said:

Well since you've only absorbed every 4th word I've written I thought I might try pictures instead.

Tell us more about welfare. Please.

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that's not what this topic is about. But I am talking more along the lines of medicare and medicaid, and other healthcare. Making healthcare like a "coupon book," or a bank account (much like FSAs now) would help prevent people from going to the dr 3-4 times a week for no reason. This would drop healthcare costs for everyone.

Also, welfare benefits shouldnt go away once you make a certain amount of money. The amounts should decrease, but not stop. My buddy is on WIC, and gets assistance from other sources because he has a kid, is in school, and makes a certain amount of money. He refuses to work more (even thuogh he can) because they will take away his benefits. How is this productive?

Social security benefits, if you really want to keep it, should be decreased. I think by 2011, if social security benefits stay the same, every american on social security will be supported by 2.1 working americans. That's around 15k per working american. Why keep social security, especially in the state it's in?

I havent "only absorbed every 4th word you've written." Your argument is you feel a moment of silence is unconstitutional and violates your rights relating to seperation of church and state. First off, are you even still in a school that requires a moment of silence? Second, is a moment of silence really prayer? Third, are you not violating the freedoms of others and, in turn, pushing your beliefs upon them?

thcrob said:

I havent "only absorbed every 4th word you've written." Your argument is you feel a moment of silence is unconstitutional and violates your rights relating to seperation of church and state.

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Close. A mandated moment of silence, in addition to and separate from existing break time, during school hours, and at regular intervals (daily, weekly, monthly) is unconstitutional.

thcrob said:

First off, are you even still in a school that requires a moment of silence?

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No. I was in a public school in an extraordinarily religious rural area that had morning prayer BEFORE school, afternoon prayer AFTER school, prayer before my wrestling matches (jesus wants me to twist that dudes face into his grundle and make him whimper in pain), but still had the good sense not to try to institutionalize prayer during school hours.

thcrob said:

Second, is a moment of silence really prayer?

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In the context laid out in my first sentence above, yes. I've clearly stated the criteria in other parts of this thread. If you read more carefully, you'd have already caught the distinction.

thcrob said:

Third, are you not violating the freedoms of others and, in turn, pushing your beliefs upon them?

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No. No more so then requiring them to complete a spelling test when they'd rather be praying.

ohio said:

Close. A mandated moment of silence, in addition to and separate from existing break time, during school hours, and at regular intervals (daily, weekly, monthly) is unconstitutional.


No. I was in a public school in an extraordinarily religious rural area that had morning prayer BEFORE school, afternoon prayer AFTER school, prayer before my wrestling matches (jesus wants me to twist that dudes face into his grundle and make him whimper in pain), but still had the good sense not to try to institutionalize prayer during school hours.


In the context laid out in my first sentence above, yes. I've clearly stated the criteria in other parts of this thread. If you read more carefully, you'd have already caught the distinction.


No. No more so then requiring them to complete a spelling test when they'd rather be praying.

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After reading through the legislation again, I came across something I missed.
The "teacher is required to instruct her pupils, especially in the lower grades, about prayer and its meaning as well as the limitations on their 'reflection,'" Gettleman ruled.

This certainly crosses the line, and should NOT be allowed in schools. If the above is part of your criteria, then I agree with you. If the moment of silence itself, even if it's at a certain time everyday, is "prayer" that I cannot agree with.

I have been in sports all of my life and have only had one instance where the "prayer" was not silent, this was for the chance to goto state. guess what, we lost. Apparently God didnt like that too much.

"...for silent reflection on the anticipated activities..."

"...and then she'll..."

$tinkle said:

i don't suppose "This period shall not be conducted as a religious exercise but shall be an opportunity..." before your quote might give it any kind of relevant context, would it?

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Please, that's like me saying "no, I never think about other women while we're together."

You don't honestly believe that makes it okay?

Everyone posting in this thread, take a sip from the cup.
Thanks.

$tinkle said:

you're now going out of your way to look silly. previously you had emphasized how important context is, but are now starting to gyrate furiously. the ladies may be impressed, but not me.

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No, I'm saying the context is clear: the fact that they specifically state "this isn't for praying (wink)" means that it is specifically for praying. Which is exactly what I just said.

Stop playing stupid.

Ah yes, the persecuted white Christian male

Again, it's hard to argue that it isn't specifically about school prayer when the dumbass legislator who wanted to pander to his dumbass hick religious constituents put the words "School Prayer" in the title of the legislation.

OK, I have had a change of heart. I now wish to require human sacrifice to Baal in schools.

johnbryanpeters said:

OK, I have had a change of heart. I now wish to require human sacrifice to Baal in schools.

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There is no Dana, only Zuhl...