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Pyramid schemes and religious solicitation.

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Last night I had a work acquaintance call me and ask me to listen to a 2min recorded message. Basically it was a message telling me I could get rid of all my debt, live worry free, even in this terrible economy. My wife was at the mall this weekend and had a woman approach her. At first the woman was just kind of talking about how cute our daughter was but it quickly turned to how bad the economy was and how we are doomed as humans so my wife should become a Jehovah Witness.

Has anybody else noticed that solicitation of all kinds have really turned it up a notch? It's pretty obvious that they prey on the weak.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
Live in Fear, believe in a higher power, trickle down economics works!
That's what I'm saying, it's all about fear. I'm concerned about things but by no means am I going to join a religious group.
 

Ian F

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
1,016
0
Philadelphia area
FWIW, my mother bought into this some years ago after my parents split... Unfortunately, this is one of the trappings of 12-step programs... now she lives in fear... goes to church a lot... She's more or less happy, so I'm glad for her... but I miss my "Mom"... the person I used to go canoeing with... who used to listen to jazz (when she remarried and moved out, she left all of her jazz records...) who on a lark went with me to a Guns 'n Roses concert... She wasn't just my mom, she was my friend...

I respect what religion means to a lot of people... but I also see a lot of hate and fear born from religion...

For me personally, I envy to comfort and peace faith seems to bring, but it also requires a level of innocence I lost a long time ago.
 

4xBoy

Turbo Monkey
Jun 20, 2006
7,014
2,847
Minneapolis
That's what I'm saying, it's all about fear. I'm concerned about things but by no means am I going to join a religious group.
People are easy pray when vulnerable, be it money or break ups.

Predators know this, so they get the message out, and pick up more sheep.
 

stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
People are easy pray when vulnerable, be it money or break ups.

Predators know this, so they get the message out, and pick up more sheep.
I just remember some guy on the phone the other day for a work call started to spout out some religious talk.


I don't respect people who mix their free-time beliefs with work.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Predators know this, so they get the message out, and pick up more sheep.
why is it that everybody nowadays thinks that if you have faith or religion, you're a sheep, brainwashed by the masses into "following" or whatever you want to label people as doing?

Honestly, it's OK to have faith, or be spiritual, or follow a religion. Some people take it to the next level, for sure, but stop bagging on people who believe in something. It drives me up the wall when I see or hear somebody come down on somebody else just because they don't think we're alone in this world. It doesn't make you cool, or rad, or a "free-thinker" just because you're an atheist.

I certainly believe in separation of church and state, and I don't believe in pushy "missions" but if somebody wants to pursue a religion, more power to them.
 
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stosh

Darth Bailer
Jul 20, 2001
22,238
393
NY
why is it that everybody nowadays thinks that if you have faith or religion, you're a sheep, brainwashed by the masses into "following" or whatever you want label people as.

Honestly, it's OK to have faith, or be spiritual, or follow a religion. Some people take it to the next level, for sure, but stop bagging on people who believe in something. It drives me up the wall when I see or hear somebody come down on somebody else just because they don't think we're alone in this world. It doesn't make you cool, or rad, or a "free-thinker" just because you're an atheist.
I don't care if someone has religion, I care when they try to push it on me or try to persuade me that they're way is the right way.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
not pointing the finger at you, i understand these people were being pricks...but I know people who jump down people's throats for being christian or whatever it might be.
 

geargrrl

Turbo Monkey
May 2, 2002
2,379
1
pnw -dry side
FWIW, my mother bought into this some years ago after my parents split... Unfortunately, this is one of the trappings of 12-step programs... now she lives in fear... goes to church a lot... She's more or less happy, so I'm glad for her... but I miss my "Mom"... the person I used to go canoeing with... who used to listen to jazz (when she remarried and moved out, she left all of her jazz records...) who on a lark went with me to a Guns 'n Roses concert... She wasn't just my mom, she was my friend...

I respect what religion means to a lot of people... but I also see a lot of hate and fear born from religion...

For me personally, I envy to comfort and peace faith seems to bring, but it also requires a level of innocence I lost a long time ago.

wtf are you talking about?
No 12 step program I know of promotes religion, fear, or anything else you imply...

re: solicitations in general. Cold calls are way up, do-not-call listing or not.
 

Icantdrive65

Monkey
Mar 21, 2005
609
1
Chinquapin fire road
FWIW, my mother bought into this some years ago after my parents split... Unfortunately, this is one of the trappings of 12-step programs... now she lives in fear... goes to church a lot... She's more or less happy, so I'm glad for her... but I miss my "Mom"... the person I used to go canoeing with... who used to listen to jazz (when she remarried and moved out, she left all of her jazz records...) who on a lark went with me to a Guns 'n Roses concert... She wasn't just my mom, she was my friend...

I respect what religion means to a lot of people... but I also see a lot of hate and fear born from religion...

For me personally, I envy to comfort and peace faith seems to bring, but it also requires a level of innocence I lost a long time ago.
It goes both ways. I lost the mom I grew up with when she decided to go atheist.

Religion can create hate and fear, but spirituality can make peace that you can't achieve otherwise.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR


I actually got a genuine chain letter in the mail yesterday! In the era of the interweb, people are still stuffing envelopes! At least it keeps the post office afloat.

People cling to guns and religion when times are tough. I consider myself spiritual, but bible thumpers piss me off.
 

Ian F

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
1,016
0
Philadelphia area
wtf are you talking about?
No 12 step program I know of promotes religion, fear, or anything else you imply....
All of the ones I've had encounters with do... something to do with "admitting to a higher power" or something... this was one of my father's complaints about them... although if it would get him to get clean, then I really wouldn't care...

Lets' see... a quick google search turned up:

http://www.12step.org/ (step # 2 and so on...)

www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-121_en.pdf

Religion in itself shouldn't promote fear... but it sure seems to be a slippery slope for some people... Fear of the unknown... fear of someone else's religion... fear of no religion...
 

geargrrl

Turbo Monkey
May 2, 2002
2,379
1
pnw -dry side
All of the ones I've had encounters with do... something to do with "admitting to a higher power" or something... this was one of my father's complaints about them... although if it would get him to get clean, then I really wouldn't care...

Lets' see... a quick google search turned up:

http://www.12step.org/ (step # 2 and so on...)

www.aa.org/en_pdfs/smf-121_en.pdf

Religion in itself shouldn't promote fear... but it sure seems to be a slippery slope for some people... Fear of the unknown... fear of someone else's religion... fear of no religion...

You have a gross misunderstanding of the differences between spirituality and religion.
 
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Ian F

Turbo Monkey
Sep 8, 2001
1,016
0
Philadelphia area
You have a gross misunderstanding of the differences between spirituality and religion.
Trust me... I know more about the differences between spirituality and religion than you can imagine. You have no idea who you're talking to.

You, however, apparently neglected to click on either of the links provided...

This thread has already gone too far. I'm done.
 

maddog17

Turbo Monkey
Jan 20, 2008
2,815
105
Methuen, Mass. U.S.A.
i had a couple start a conversation with me and my gf at the time. we were at a chineese takeout waiting for food. started off with small talk then they floored it with all the do you go to chuch crap and all that. i put my hand up like in a stop position and told the guy your wasting your time. i don't believe in god or a higher power so stop right there and lets keep this peacefull. he was just about to continue when his food was ready and i interupted him and said you got your food, move on. and i turned my back on him and he and his wife left. people want to believe in a higher power thats fine, just dont try to make me a believer and when i tell you to stop or i'm not interested just move away and leave me alone.
 

.:Jeenyus:.

Turbo Monkey
Feb 23, 2004
2,831
1
slc
It goes both ways. I lost the mom I grew up with when she decided to go atheist.

Religion can create hate and fear, but spirituality can make peace that you can't achieve otherwise.
:crazy:

so it's not possible to be at peace with your life unless you rely on something outside yourself...?
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
I make religious groups give me money to go away. I just hangout in front of their churches dressed in nothing but chaps and comment how pretty their women look in all their Sunday best. I made $8 last weekend. What else is there to do now that football season is over....
 

jdcamb

Tool Time!
Feb 17, 2002
19,799
8,383
Nowhere Man!
....So where does the pyramid scheme come into play in this thread?

My other costume is a cheerleader outfit. I look so hot in it that they pay me to come inside and do some cheers on the pulpit while they video tape me. I insist on getting paid or I take of my panties.....
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
Does anyone remember Andy? It was almost always a pleasure to discuss and read his thoughts and emotions on religion. It's a shame he stopped visiting the site a few years back.
 

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
I don't really agree with the thinking behind prosletyzing, but I also don't understand why it elicits such harsh reactions. Yeah, Jehovah's Witnesses have come to my door, Mormons have tried their pitch on me, etc. I'm not interested, but I'm not particularly personally bothered by the interactions. Maybe I've just gotten nice ones....
 
I don't really agree with the thinking behind prosletyzing, but I also don't understand why it elicits such harsh reactions. Yeah, Jehovah's Witnesses have come to my door, Mormons have tried their pitch on me, etc. I'm not interested, but I'm not particularly personally bothered by the interactions. Maybe I've just gotten nice ones....
In general, the folks that stop by have locked minds - they wish to broadcast, not converse. I don't like 'em for the same reasons I don't like other advertising.
 

moff_quigley

Why don't you have a seat over there?
Jan 27, 2005
4,402
2
Poseurville
Does anyone remember Andy? It was almost always a pleasure to discuss and read his thoughts and emotions on religion. It's a shame he stopped visiting the site a few years back.
andyman1970 or something like that. Great poster on these subjects.
 

reflux

Turbo Monkey
Mar 18, 2002
4,617
2
G14 Classified
andyman1970 or something like that. Great poster on these subjects.
Yup.

Reading through his posts reminded me of what I enjoyed about religion as a child: treating others with love and respect. As someone mentioned in this thread already, it's a damn shame I lost that innocence.
 

JewBagel

Monkey
Apr 22, 2008
229
0
oregon
I don't know about that. More like peace with others that transcends race, nationality, culture, etc...
Show me that kind of peace apart from spirituality.
Umm...no, just no. If you feel religion or spirituality makes you a better person, then so be it, go ahead and follow it, that's one more nice person in this world. However saying you need it to be at peace with the rest of the world is really naive. My personal feelings are, if you absolutely need religion or spirituality to make you a better person, that is just sad.
 

Reactor

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2005
3,976
1
Chandler, AZ, USA
Has anybody else noticed that solicitation of all kinds have really turned it up a notch? It's pretty obvious that they prey on the weak.
Yeah, Pretty much.

The primary weapons of many sects are fear, anger and greed. Fear that you are somehow displeasing their god, of death, or persecution. Anger at some group (The xxxxx man, hippies, some other religious group). Greed by claiming their sect somehow enjoys the special place in their gods plan and therefor will be rewarded. These people rightly deserve contempt. There is a reason these sheep are called a "flock" and their leader a shepherd. In the end they will be fleeced.

One Bishop (don't know which sect) was on TV last weekend saying the bad economy had done a great job of boosting recruitment and attendance. I couldn't help but think many of these new converts wouldn't be there one minute longer than they thought necessary.

On the other hand, there are many religious people who are kind, generous and just. Don't toss out the baby with the bath water, judge people by their actions, not their claims of religion.
 

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
40,941
13,135
Portland, OR
My wife and I were laughing about people who put "Christan owned business" or a jebus fish on their business card or signage.

Does that sh!t actually draw more business?