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Torn. Shock options (Another annoying VS. thread)

fred.r

fred.r

Dwangus Bogans
May 9, 2006
842
0
Anyone run both a PUSHed Fox DHX and a RockShox Vivid?
Currently running a standard DHX with no huge issues, but have a Vivid just kick'n it on my peg board.
I used to run the Vivid until it exploded on me. It felt far better than the DHX, but I have a hard time relying on the new Vivid SRAM sent me, which is what's keeping it off my bike.
So, what feels better?
What I liked about the Vivid over the DHX:
1. Far more supple feeling on the big and small hits.
2. The hi/low rebound adjustment
3. Tracked the stutter in corners very well
4. No platform!
5. Just generally felt more open
What I didn't like:
1. Reliability
2. Weight (Fox has a Ti spring, Vivid has a steel)
3. No hi-speed compression adjustment (not a huge deal since my bike ramps up nicely)
So my options:
1. Sell the Vivid, and PUSH the DHX
2. Sell the Fox, pay the difference for a Ti spring
3. Sell both and grab a Double Barrel (never ridden one, don't buy the hype either, but keeping an open mind.)
Yes I know the fact that PUSH custom tunes the shock for you, and the answer to my questions may be obvious, but having never ridden a PUSHed DHX I don't know how a custom tuned shock feels, same goes for the DB, never touched one set up for me; all I know is the Vivid blows the DHX out of the water, IMO.
So, let's hear some input from you guys.
 
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Kanye West

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
The only shock I ever felt on the DHR that didn't completely suck dong and had acceptable high speed square edge compliance was the Double Barrel. A close second was the Romic. All the others fell WAY short with that frame, mostly from having to run a ludicrously high reservoir pressure, which combined with the low pivot and linkage made them spike and hang up like mad.
 
V

Viv92

Monkey
Jan 31, 2009
204
0
Australia
Derailling this, but how did you find the adjustability of the Vivid?

It seems hard to set up a DHX with decent LSC but still have it blow off (does propedal in DHXs blow off like in the XC shocks, it doesn't feel like it to me?).
 
fred.r

fred.r

Dwangus Bogans
May 9, 2006
842
0
Hacktastic said:
The only shock I ever felt on the DHR that didn't completely suck dong and had acceptable high speed square edge compliance was the Double Barrel. A close second was the Romic. All the others fell WAY short with that frame, mostly from having to run a ludicrously high reservoir pressure, which combined with the low pivot and linkage made them spike and hang up like mad.
Click to expand...
Square edge hits were something I definitely noticed more so on my DHR than my previous R9 and Demo. But it's not really a huge issue to me since I've learned a lot about finesse since owning this bike. Although better square edge compliance can only be a good thing, what I care most about is small bump, and a very "open" feeling shock. I know that's a vague word to use, but it's really the only one I can think of. The only down side to the Double Barrel is it'll set me back a pretty penny, and I may only be running it for less than a year, plus I'm a gear whore and will have to buy a new Ti spring for it (lame, I know). I'll be on the DW DHR for oh-10 and have heard DW links and DB don't play well together.
 
fred.r

fred.r

Dwangus Bogans
May 9, 2006
842
0
Viv92 said:
Derailling this, but how did you find the adjustability of the Vivid?

It seems hard to set up a DHX with decent LSC but still have it blow off (does propedal in DHXs blow off like in the XC shocks, it doesn't feel like it to me?).
Click to expand...
DHX's don't have a ture LSC adjustment, just the platform. IMO the shock feels far better with zero to 3 clicks of Propedal and that's all.
I ran the Vivid with more than half the available LSC. Helped the bike stay up in corners and ride higher in it's travel in general. Super easy to set up and fine tune compared to the DHX in my experience. So I'd say the adjustablilty is great. With the DHX I tend to leave the setting the same regardless of course, only sometimes tweaking the HSC if the run has some really harsh hits. With the Vivid, I'd mess with the HSR and LSR on almost every course, as it seemed easier to feel what exactly what and how I wanted the bike to feel on that specific course, and of course know what adjustments will give me that feeling. With the DHX, it's a bit harder to tell it what to do I guess.
 
Kanye West

Kanye West

220# bag of hacktastic
Aug 31, 2006
3,741
473
fred.r said:
Square edge hits were something I definitely noticed more so on my DHR than my previous R9 and Demo. But it's not really a huge issue to me since I've learned a lot about finesse since owning this bike. Although better square edge compliance can only be a good thing, what I care most about is small bump, and a very "open" feeling shock. I know that's a vague word to use, but it's really the only one I can think of. The only down side to the Double Barrel is it'll set me back a pretty penny, and I may only be running it for less than a year, plus I'm a gear whore and will have to buy a new Ti spring for it (lame, I know). I'll be on the DW DHR for oh-10 and have heard DW links and DB don't play well together.
Click to expand...
Talk to CC, they might be able to make you a custom shaft eyelet or something for the DW DHR.

They're expensive, but that's a part that you keep from bike to bike. There are a few things on my short list that stay with me between bikes. Others include my Hadley hubs and Formula brakes. My Sunline headset is also staying with me too now that they aren't making it anymore.

I didn't enjoy having to ride the DHR like it was a trail bike instead of a DH bike. Definitely learned "finesse" with it but not by choice, and I didn't feel that was an asset.
 
V

Viv92

Monkey
Jan 31, 2009
204
0
Australia
fred.r said:
DHX's don't have a ture LSC adjustment, just the platform. IMO the shock feels far better with zero to 3 clicks of Propedal and that's all.
I ran the Vivid with more than half the available LSC. Helped the bike stay up in corners and ride higher in it's travel in general. Super easy to set up and fine tune compared to the DHX in my experience. So I'd say the adjustablilty is great. With the DHX I tend to leave the setting the same regardless of course, only sometimes tweaking the HSC if the run has some really harsh hits. With the Vivid, I'd mess with the HSR and LSR on almost every course, as it seemed easier to feel what exactly what and how I wanted the bike to feel on that specific course, and of course know what adjustments will give me that feeling. With the DHX, it's a bit harder to tell it what to do I guess.
Click to expand...
Yeah I realise they don't have pure LSC adjustment. The propedal switch on my RP2 shock obviously has a blow off point, but the DHX PP adjustment seems different... it's quite annoying.
 
fred.r

fred.r

Dwangus Bogans
May 9, 2006
842
0
Hacktastic said:
Talk to CC, they might be able to make you a custom shaft eyelet or something for the DW DHR.

They're expensive, but that's a part that you keep from bike to bike. There are a few things on my short list that stay with me between bikes. Others include my Hadley hubs and Formula brakes. My Sunline headset is also staying with me too now that they aren't making it anymore.

I didn't enjoy having to ride the DHR like it was a trail bike instead of a DH bike. Definitely learned "finesse" with it but not by choice, and I didn't feel that was an asset.
Click to expand...
Shaft eyelet? Are you referring to the shaft side mounting eyelet for bushings, or some valving in the shaft?
From what I understand, the Sunday and the Double Barrel didn't match well since the DB is over damped for a low leverage bike like the Sunday. Now the leverage ratio for the new DHR will be close to the same as the current DHR while static, but I have no idea what the curve will be and if the DB will still be over damped for the new DW-Link. Mounting wise, I haven't heard of any issues.
The square edge performance of the DHR hasn't had me riding it like a trail bike, just taught me better line choice and how to pop off stuff and gap sections as much as possible, a good thing on either a plow bike or finesse bike. Were you riding a pre-08 DHR or the current version? I've ridden both and the current version carries it's speed far better over the rough than the older designs; the DW even more so (from what I hear).
 
fred.r

fred.r

Dwangus Bogans
May 9, 2006
842
0
Viv92 said:
Yeah I realise they don't have pure LSC adjustment. The propedal switch on my RP2 shock obviously has a blow off point, but the DHX PP adjustment seems different... it's quite annoying.
Click to expand...
Hmmm, I don't know, I've never ridden a RP2. But there is somewhat of a threshold with the DHX that is noticeable. The only way I really feel it is if I add too much Propedal and it feels harsh when the stutter bumps hit. Back it off a click or two and it still pedals about the same but opens up on those same stutter bumps, but it's not quite an on/off feeling like I think you're describing.
 
A

atb

Monkey
Jun 18, 2004
201
0
the north shore
i'v riden a DHR with a double barrel, it felt very over dampened.

i had a fox dhx5 on mine for the last 2 years, the fox guys did some stuff to it at crankworx, and as long as you keep the bottem out all the way out and the propedal at its min it was ok. i ran it with 110psi and a 400lbs spring, i'm about 175lbs.

i just got a vivid, still working on getting it set up, i tryed a 450lbs spring, i'm not fat enugh for that yet. so i need to get a 400lbs spring to get it going good.

it says in the owners manual for the vivid that it need full service every 100hours, with whistler riding thats like 3 months.
 
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P

Pat Tellier

Chimp
Sep 8, 2004
62
0
Montreal, QC, Canada
fred.r said:
What I liked about the Vivid over the DHX:
1. Far more supple feeling on the big and small hits.
2. The hi/low rebound adjustment
3. Tracked the stutter in corners very well
4. No platform!
5. Just generally felt more open
What I didn't like:
1. Reliability
2. Weight (Fox has a Ti spring, Vivid has a steel)
3. No hi-speed compression adjustment (not a huge deal since my bike ramps up nicely)
So my options:
1. Sell the Vivid, and PUSH the DHX
2. Sell the Fox, pay the difference for a Ti spring
3. Sell both and grab a Double Barrel
Click to expand...
Here's another cheaper option you could consider:
4. Sell both the Fox and Vivid, keep your Ti spring and put it on a new Elka that you can buy with the money you'll get from the other shocks.

fred.r said:
Although better square edge compliance can only be a good thing, what I care most about is small bump, and a very "open" feeling shock. I know that's a vague word to use, but it's really the only one I can think of. The only down side to the Double Barrel is it'll set me back a pretty penny, and I may only be running it for less than a year, plus I'm a gear whore and will have to buy a new Ti spring for it (lame, I know). I'll be on the DW DHR for oh-10 and have heard DW links and DB don't play well together.
Click to expand...
The Elka is almost half the retail price of the CCDB. You are right that most CCDB have a little too much LS damping for a DW bike, even with the adjusters completely backed off. The Elka shock we offer on DW bikes actually does away with overly stiff platforms, since DW bikes already have it built in.

fred.r said:
DHX's don't have a ture LSC adjustment, just the platform. IMO the shock feels far better with zero to 3 clicks of Propedal and that's all.
I ran the Vivid with more than half the available LSC. Helped the bike stay up in corners and ride higher in it's travel in general. Super easy to set up and fine tune compared to the DHX in my experience. So I'd say the adjustablilty is great. With the DHX I tend to leave the setting the same regardless of course, only sometimes tweaking the HSC if the run has some really harsh hits. With the Vivid, I'd mess with the HSR and LSR on almost every course, as it seemed easier to feel what exactly what and how I wanted the bike to feel on that specific course, and of course know what adjustments will give me that feeling. With the DHX, it's a bit harder to tell it what to do I guess.
Click to expand...
Based on everything you describe above, you are looking exactly for the kind of feeling and adjustability that we have designed our shock for. In my humble opinion, the Elka would be a perfect match for your needs.

Before people start flaming me because I work at Elka and start blasting me pushing my products, I want to say that I am not trying to push a sale here.

Fred.r is coming on RideMonkey to get opinions and look into new options.

As a rider, I have been through that myself. That is what motivated me to work hard with my colleagues here at Elka to come up with a rider-oriented product that addresses what most riders need at a reasonable price. This is why I feel 100% comfortable coming on this forum and post about my product when I feel it can provide what someone is looking for.
 
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yd35

yd35

Monkey
Oct 28, 2008
741
61
NY
Another option is to wait for Fox's 2010 suspension line. They re-designed their shock, it's not even called the DHX 5 anymore, and I believe the new version has hi/low speed compression adjustments.
 
DirtyMike

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Fred, keep the Vivid, Push the DHX. The issues you are having witht eh DHX will be resolved by the custom tune, and the parts they use in them. If you just cant fin yoruself to trust the vivid, keep it as a back up.
 
P

Pat Tellier

Chimp
Sep 8, 2004
62
0
Montreal, QC, Canada
dhkid said:
pat, could you give a rough idea of pricing for the elka shocks?
Click to expand...
Our pricing is as follows (US Dollars):

- Stage 5 shock (no spring, no mountings): $450,00
- Optional Hi-Tensile spring: $45,00
- 2-Piece Aluminum Reducers Kit: $10,00
- 3-Piece Stainless Steel Sleeve & Aluminum Spacers Kit: $15,00


We use 1/2" DU Bushings (12.7mm, standard) which is compatible with Fox, RockShox, Progressive and CaneCreek (non-bearing models), so most people can keep and re-use their stock mountings is they are still in good shape.

We also use standard springs with 35mm minimum ID and 55mm maximum OD. Our spring are made from Hi-Tensile alloy, which is usually 10-15% lighter than regular chrome-silicon springs. Our size is compatible with Fox, Marzocchi, Manitou and CaneCreek spring, but also with Renton (RCS) and Diverse (DSP-Racing) titanium springs. Riders can also choose to keep their springs and save.

We always ship our products through FedEx and our rate for most states is about $25 for 2-Day service.

If you have other questions, feel free to email me at: pat(a)elkasuspension.com

Let's not turn this thread into an infomercial...
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
About the overdamped feel of CCDB on lower levreage bikes. Dirt has a proto of new CCDB that will be more suitable for it. It could be used from as low as 2.3 ratio so it still may be an option.
 
ridiculous

ridiculous

Turbo Monkey
Jan 18, 2005
2,907
1
MD / NoVA
DirtyMike said:
Fred, keep the Vivid, Push the DHX. The issues you are having witht eh DHX will be resolved by the custom tune, and the parts they use in them. If you just cant fin yoruself to trust the vivid, keep it as a back up.
Click to expand...
I am doing this, this season. I just got my Pushed DHX back and after 1 ride im in love. FWIW I had the same views as you on both the dhx and vivid, except I thought both could use some help on the smaller stuff. I didnt really like the feel of the vivid on my bike but it could be because I couldnt get it adjusted the way I wanted, I think I need to drop a spring size.
Problem solved with the push tune, it really eats up the small stuff, and no more "packing up feeling". My bike felt pretty amazing on high speed square hits before but its even better now due to the tune. I thought the vivid was a better shock than the dhx, no doubt, but no way is it better than a pushed dhx, especially if youre looking for more small bump compliance.


Im 175 lbs run 120 psi, 1 click of propedal, 400 lb/in spring on my yeti.
 
Ian Collins

Ian Collins

Turbo Monkey
Oct 4, 2001
1,428
0
Pacific Beach, San Diego, CA
Pat Tellier said:
Here's another cheaper option you could consider:
4. Sell both the Fox and Vivid, keep your Ti spring and put it on a new Elka that you can buy with the money you'll get from the other shocks.



The Elka is almost half the retail price of the CCDB. You are right that most CCDB have a little too much LS damping for a DW bike, even with the adjusters completely backed off. The Elka shock we offer on DW bikes actually does away with overly stiff platforms, since DW bikes already have it built in.



Based on everything you describe above, you are looking exactly for the kind of feeling and adjustability that we have designed our shock for. In my humble opinion, the Elka would be a perfect match for your needs.

Before people start flaming me because I work at Elka and start blasting me pushing my products, I want to say that I am not trying to push a sale here.

Fred.r is coming on RideMonkey to get opinions and look into new options.

As a rider, I have been through that myself. That is what motivated me to work hard with my colleagues here at Elka to come up with a rider-oriented product that addresses what most riders need at a reasonable price. This is why I feel 100% comfortable coming on this forum and post about my product when I feel it can provide what someone is looking for.
Click to expand...
Hey Pat, I actually was the first to test the elka on the 2010 DHR and i wanted to share some of my thoughts on it with you....email me at ianmcollins13@gmail.com ...i figure that would be a better medium than this board.....

one thing that's worthy of mention is that i tried to put the first elka you send david on my 2008 DHR and it didn't fit....the LSC adjuster bumps into the frame and you can't quite get the shock in there.....when i asked david about a revised tune for the 2010 bike he told me you guys were redoing the whole shock.....either way, i'm interested in your product and i'd like to share my feedback and some extensive notes i took.....drop me a line at your earliest convenience....

Ian
 
fred.r

fred.r

Dwangus Bogans
May 9, 2006
842
0
ridiculous said:
I am doing this, this season. I just got my Pushed DHX back and after 1 ride im in love. FWIW I had the same views as you on both the dhx and vivid, except I thought both could use some help on the smaller stuff. I didnt really like the feel of the vivid on my bike but it could be because I couldnt get it adjusted the way I wanted, I think I need to drop a spring size.
Problem solved with the push tune, it really eats up the small stuff, and no more "packing up feeling". My bike felt pretty amazing on high speed square hits before but its even better now due to the tune. I thought the vivid was a better shock than the dhx, no doubt, but no way is it better than a pushed dhx, especially if youre looking for more small bump compliance.


Im 175 lbs run 120 psi, 1 click of propedal, 400 lb/in spring on my yeti.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. That's the route I'll be going. Cheapest, and the only option that offers a custom tune specifically to me. I've talked to a few of the guys at PUSH in the past and they said they've done a whole lot of work with the tune for the DHR, since a few of them own them.
 
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