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Replacing custom-valved OEM shocks

Radarr

Turbo Monkey
Feb 25, 2004
1,130
9
Montana
I'm looking to replace my leaky 5th Element rear shock for a while until I can do a shim conversion on it.

In the mean time, I want to get a replacement rear shock so I can ride my big bike. I know that SC had their shocks specially valved for the Free (what I'm on again), just like IH did for Sundays, 7Points, and others. I'm curious whether or not the OEM custom valving really makes that big of a difference in terms of performance.

I've replaced a rear shock on a previous Free I owned with a regular-old aftermarket Roco. I had shuttle access to everything I rode at that time, so I was mostly just concerned with the small-bump/big-hit settings (which was awesome with the Roco), and I didn't care about pedaling. There was noticeably more bob when I swapped out for the Roco from a 5th, presumably because of the platform and the custom valving. I broke my hand soon after that, and have done mostly trail riding for the last couple years. Since I have a Free again, but really don't have the luxury of shuttling everything anymore, pedaling (and pedaling efficiency) has now become something that I think about.

Any input? Will hunting for a specially-valved OEM for the Free DHX/DHXa (or even another 5th) help out that much with the pedaling? Or can I just adjust the replacement shock to suit the characteristics of the leverage ratio and the VPP?

Better yet, any chance anyone has an extra VP-Free shock lying around they want to sell? :biggrin:
 

Avy Rider

Monkey
Feb 26, 2003
287
0
Muskoka,Canada
I'm curious about this whole pedaling issue. Yes, the suspension bobs on many bikes as you pedal but is the bike still not moving the exact same distance with every pedal stroke??? So what if the suspension moves as long as the bike still accelerates. I think it's more of a placebo or similar mental thing when the rider feels connected to the rear of the bike. Probably feels like all your energy is going into the rear wheel right? Am I missing something or does all the energy still not go to the rear wheel if the suspension is moving? The cranks are still in the same relationship to the riders position and the wheels rotate the same distance.

Talk amongst yourselves...I'm feeling a little verclempt. lol
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
as far as i know, there isn't anything special about 5ths that are on sc bikes. maybe they have custom rebound shim stacks, but besides that nothing.

the 5th element just suits that bike well because its position sensitive. the vp free with non position sensitive shocks like to sit low in its travel and does have much/if any at all ramp up to the end. so basically you get a bike that pedals like crap.*

you could try a roco with more lsc. will help, but still wont be like the 5th.

my advice is just to replace the main o ring on the 5th to a softer one. makes a world of difference, you will probably find that it will be close to the roco in terms of sensitivity. btw, where is it leaking? most probably through the rebound adjuster?


(*no, i am not just pulling this out of my ass, i rode a vp free in the past. with a 5th and a dhx.)
 

dhkid

Turbo Monkey
Mar 10, 2005
3,358
0
Malaysia
I'm curious about this whole pedaling issue. Yes, the suspension bobs on many bikes as you pedal but is the bike still not moving the exact same distance with every pedal stroke??? So what if the suspension moves as long as the bike still accelerates. I think it's more of a placebo or similar mental thing when the rider feels connected to the rear of the bike. Probably feels like all your energy is going into the rear wheel right? Am I missing something or does all the energy still not go to the rear wheel if the suspension is moving? The cranks are still in the same relationship to the riders position.
generally i would agree with you, but you need to try a vp free. its shockingly bad! you dont feel like you are moving forward at all, just up and down.

moving to a commencal after that felt like a rocket even though it still bobbed a bit. now i am on a banshee and the commencal feels like a slug.:bonk:
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,032
5,925
borcester rhymes
I'm curious about this whole pedaling issue. Yes, the suspension bobs on many bikes as you pedal but is the bike still not moving the exact same distance with every pedal stroke??? So what if the suspension moves as long as the bike still accelerates. I think it's more of a placebo or similar mental thing when the rider feels connected to the rear of the bike. Probably feels like all your energy is going into the rear wheel right? Am I missing something or does all the energy still not go to the rear wheel if the suspension is moving? The cranks are still in the same relationship to the riders position and the wheels rotate the same distance.

Talk amongst yourselves...I'm feeling a little verclempt. lol
no, it really does make a difference. Next time you go out, try slamming your weight down on the pedals as much as possible. Try it on a hardtail right after that. Some of your energy goes straight into the suspension. On some bikes, actual chain torque moves the rear wheel up or down, so there goes some energy as well. Ideally all of the energy from your pedal stroke goes into turning the rear wheel forward, not pushing the bottom bracket up or down, or pulling the rear wheel up or down.

A lot of systems use the torque to combat a rider's weight moving up and down...i wonder what the energy efficiency of this is as compared to just leaving it be? In other words, does expending energy from the pedals to keep the rear wheel in a certain "area" or move it up and down, equate to the energy a rider expends just collapsing the suspension? hmmm...
 

Iridemtb

Turbo Monkey
Feb 2, 2007
1,497
-1
Elka suspension would tune it to your bike... If you have the extra dough to drop, do it.