who's holdn out for new boxxer?

brocelif said:

My beg. stroke rebound does not click either.

Click to expand...

it's a very subtle click, sometimes i can feel it other times not. best bet is to record your adjustments in terms of 'turns'

turn it to full open and make some kind of visible marks that line up on the red and grey knobs. then you'll always have a constant reference point.

I was curious on the 2010 boxxer race, will it perform like an older like say an 07-09 team fork?

the 2010 boxxer race is available on ebay right now for $799 buy it now
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rock-Shox-Boxxer-Race-2010-black-BRAND-NEW_W0QQitemZ350200825612QQihZ022QQcategoryZ36135QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

I just got my 2010 race in 2 days ago, love how it feels in the parking lot, tomorrow should be it's maiden voyage. Only issue/non-issue right now is a small clicking noise when you gently compress the fork, more than likely just needs to be broken in.

On a side note, has anyone picked up the new truvativ direct mount yet? I'm trying to decided between it and the sunline.

I've ridden my 2010 Boxxer WC 2Xs now and like it a good bit. My only complaint is I'm running very little compression damping. So today I pulled the Mission Control and lightened up the valving. It feels much better in the parking lot test and I'll be getting some real DH runs on it tomorrow. I also pulled the lowers to check the lubricating oil volume and slick honey the bushings, seals and wipers.

Monday I'll get more of a ride report on the 10 Boxxer WC, Fox RC4 and Yeti 303R DH.

So has anyone had any runs on the Team and WC? I've been planning on getting a team but am considering the WC. My original conscern with the WC was the reliability of the air spring (I do some freeride). I know it's too early to tell but I'd like to know what some long time Boxxer owners think of this.

Thanks,

My 07 boxxer WC air spring has broken a solo air piston and needed new seals in the 4 months I've owned it, but it takes about 15 minutes to rebuild, super simple and easy, and works great. SRAM has also been great about warranty, so I haven't missed any riding. I recommend!

I am waiting for my team to arrive...

Does anybody know which spring (red or blue) is included?

Red (Medium) comes stock in the forks. The others will be in the box.

Which is a great touch, nice work Rock Shox.

Jase76 said:

Red (Medium) comes stock in the forks. The others will be in the box.

Which is a great touch, nice work Rock Shox.

Click to expand...

So RS provides more than one spring and two crowns - well done

Teamsuzukirm19z said:

So I rode my team today and the rebound (beg stroke) did speed up as the fork broke in but still no where near what I think it should be. When riding it I can't really say it seems that slow although in the slower stuff I would like it a little faster. The ending stroke seems to be pretty good.(the faster I went the better it felt)

When comparing it to my 08 WC I will say it has a ton more compression and when you push on it, its almost like "whoa thats stiff" but it doesn't really seem that overly stiff when I am riding it on the trail. Like somone else said it does hold lines better specially in fast rough terrain. It also feels better turning because the fork doesn't dive and I know many people had there 08s tuned so they don't dive but I could never really get mine at a place where it wouldn't dive and was as plush as I wanted in the rocks, and this fork seems to handle both well. I had 6 clicks of low speed compression and it doesn't bob and braking into turns feels really good.

When jumping I found that the fork doesn't blow through much travel. I can't say I noticed on my old one that it went through the travel easy, but with this one it seems easier to clear jumps because the fork doesn't soak up the lip as much. BUT it is still quite plush on the rocks like I already said.

It is noticeable that the stansions are 35mm now. It seems like it added the perfect amount of stiffness.

Now I can't say there is nothing to complain about because there is something going on with my beg stroke rebound. Also I put the soft spring in after a few runs because I can't get it through full travel. It goes through the travel when the spring is out but even with the soft spring and the bottom out all the way off I still only managed to go through 6 3/4in travel, but I am getting 30% with the soft spring.... The trails I was riding on I typically used about 7.5in of travel on my 08 WC. So with as good as it felt I think it will be even better once I get it dialed so I can use closer to 8in.

If someone could just confirm for me that their beg stroke rebound is much slower at 24 than 1 I would appreciate it.

Click to expand...

Teamsuzuki,
I have a 2010 Team that doesn't get full travel either (6.125") . I believe this is due to the "drop stop" MCU being too long. If you pull out the spring and top cap assembly and measure the distance between the "bottom out" rod and MCU, it's only 6". In my opinion, it's going to take a huge hit to compress that stiff MCU nearly 2 inches when it's wrapped tightly inside a steel spring. The MCU should be made of a softer compound or be made an inch shorter (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

I'm running about 4 clicks of rebound (both high and low speed). Did you try running zero rebound in the low speed? All my knobs are a b*tch to turn, especially the compression knobs. I can't turn one without the other going along for a ride. Maybe yours did the same?

Udi said:

Can anyone else confirm that weight (for the team)? That's a fair bit heavier than claimed, I was hoping it might be closer to the current WC so that WC owners could switch to a (cheaper) team without much of a weight penalty, but it looks like that mightn't be the case.

Also that's the second story I've heard about the rebound being too slow, someone else said it was pretty lacking in "pop". That's a bit of a shame considering that forks generally work best setup fairly fast in terms of rebound.

I'm sure someone will figure out how to fix it internally soon enough.

Click to expand...

UDI,
The Team rebounds plenty fast. I like fast rebound and am running 4 clicks for low and high speed rebound.

I did not weigh the fork, but in hand it felt a little lighter than my old Boxxer Race. Any weight loss between the coil versions is minimal.

Hey thanks, appreciate the reply. Which spring are you running though? I'd be on a soft (so obviously it'd rebound slower than a harder spring).

Also, do the knobs loosen up with use, or do they stay hard to turn? And the last one... can you just remove the drop stop and run without it? If I get the team instead of the worldcup that I always seem to get, it'd really be so that it wouldn't ramp up so much... it'd be nice to hit bottom once in a while.

Cheers

Udi-

The knobs definitely do loosen up with use - turn them back and forth for a minute or two right out of the box and you'll feel a noticeable difference (thanks to Lee for this tip). However, wear gloves while doing this; those little bastards are sharp.

I'm not sure about removing the drop stop on a Team, but I've had no trouble finding the bottom of my WC - it's super adjustable at the end of its travel, and with a little trial and error, you can easily dial in a tune where the fork has plenty of damping to keep you high in the travel through turns and hard pedaling efforts but will work all the way through it on a rough hit.

Udi said:

Hey thanks, appreciate the reply. Which spring are you running though? I'd be on a soft (so obviously it'd rebound slower than a harder spring).

Also, do the knobs loosen up with use, or do they stay hard to turn? And the last one... can you just remove the drop stop and run without it? If I get the team instead of the worldcup that I always seem to get, it'd really be so that it wouldn't ramp up so much... it'd be nice to hit bottom once in a while.

Cheers

Click to expand...

I'm running the blue spring since I go about 215 suited up to ride.
I've only got one solid day on the fork so far so I can't say if the knobs will get easier to turn. I'm not much of a fiddler though, I tend to set and forget.
Fellow clydes... don't assume you need the black spring if you're over 200#. The spring rate of the blue still yields a stiff ride, and I'm running minimal compression.

I simply cut an inch off the MCU. I'll be riding again on Monday to see if I get back an inch of travel. In theory the bottom out would just happen later in the forks travel. Since I'm not dropping huge to flat, I'm not concerned if the MCU is in there or not. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered up a softer compound in the future.

I think Rock Shox leaned towards the safe side when designing the drop stop. Meaning, better to have riders give up some travel, for the sake of bottoming out hard, breaking internals in the process. Perhaps they wanted the freeriders seal of approval.

Can anyone please tell me how is the '10 Race compared to the older Teams? This should be a fair comparison... I'm sorry if this has been discussed before.

k1creeker said:

I simply cut an inch off the MCU. I'll be riding again on Monday to see if I get back an inch of travel.

Click to expand...

Have you thought of grinding/cutting a conical shape into the top 25-35mm of the mcu? This should give a nice progressive bottom out

just an idea

John P. said:

I'm not sure about removing the drop stop on a Team, but I've had no trouble finding the bottom of my WC - it's super adjustable at the end of its travel, and with a little trial and error, you can easily dial in a tune where the fork has plenty of damping to keep you high in the travel through turns and hard pedaling efforts but will work all the way through it on a rough hit.

Click to expand...

That's awesome to hear, not sure if anyone else noticed, but the new WC has a floating negative air piston (like the solo air totem - which I noticed was a lot more linear than the old solo air boxxer)... which should help make it a bit more linear. The old one is a bit hard to use all the travel on, especially if you run a lot of compression damping.

I did notice my totem made a little tap on return after a deep compression though, which was the noise of the floating negative piston hitting its rest position (topout)... wasn't a fan, have you noticed anything like that? I forget now but I don't think the totem had a bumper, putting an o-ring in quietened it down and it looks like the boxxer already has one so it's probably not an issue.

k1creeker said:

Teamsuzuki,
I have a 2010 Team that doesn't get full travel either (6.125") . I believe this is due to the "drop stop" MCU being too long. If you pull out the spring and top cap assembly and measure the distance between the "bottom out" rod and MCU, it's only 6". In my opinion, it's going to take a huge hit to compress that stiff MCU nearly 2 inches when it's wrapped tightly inside a steel spring. The MCU should be made of a softer compound or be made an inch shorter (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

I'm running about 4 clicks of rebound (both high and low speed). Did you try running zero rebound in the low speed? All my knobs are a b*tch to turn, especially the compression knobs. I can't turn one without the other going along for a ride. Maybe yours did the same?

Click to expand...

I can only get 6" or so out of my team too. I kinda agree they need to shorten or soften the mcu

I've had a few issues with mine right out the box - but that shouldn't put you off.

These things are high performance race forks that require fettling to get right. Analogy is F1 car wont be perfect when it has finished being built. It needs time to bed in, and be serviced regularly and set up properly.

When I first put these on the bike (2 weeks ago) they were brilliant, although a little over damped - but I did like this - having run a hard spring in my 08 Teams with an air assist top cap (25PSI in there) and three clicks of 'compression' damping. These things bottomed regularly - I weigh 80kg - 13stone.

Now these news ones did not - which I think is impressive.

Anyhow, back to the problem. They were mint out the box, but I noticed about after three good solid days of alpine riding they were starting to get harder and harder and the rebound was getting slower and slower. I rung TF tuned and they recommended that I cut out one of the lips on the oil seal to reduce drag (seeing as the oil seal is pretty obsolete now because there is only max 40cc in there!).

I didn't bother doing this because after opening them up (took about 1hr to get the c clip off the rebound adjuster) they were dry as hell inside with literally no grease in either seal.

So I greased them all up, relubed them (probably put too much in there, but doesn't matter too much this ISNT rocket science!) and they felt fine yesterday during the ride. I rode for about 1hr 15 of actual bike time (Bex in Switzerland in case any one is wondering). This morning they felt horrible so I figured that the grease and oil had degraded from the rough treatment the night before. I relubed them etc etc again but this time it didn't improve performance.

I then remember what TF said about the oil seal - I took them out and started cutting away. Then curiosity got the better of me and I decided to see how they ran without the oil seal at all. They were so smooth and soft at the start of the travel they practically fell into it.

So I lubed them up and put oil in there and off I went for some riding. Absolutely fantastic - reached what looks like full travel of about 2mm off (indicated by rubber O ring on stantion) and they still propped up in the corners. I've got no High speed, a lot of Low speed and the rebound is set relatively slow both ending and beginning stroke.

So basically what I am saying is these forks are amazing performance wise (a lot better than the old ones) but the down side of that is the amount of servicing I think is going to be involved.

I wouldn't recommend running them without the oil seal, but I can't see that it will cause too many problems if you service them regularly and clean the internals and seals out too.

So yeah, rad fork.

A mate of mine ran his 40 without the oil seal and if felt unbelievably supple. Saying that it spat out a thin layer of oil onto the stanchions most runs which needs to be wiped off. Lube oil needs to be replenished often as well. Pretty much a very high maintenance race mod, but fantastically frictionless results. Literally night and day. His medium spring fork felt considerably more plush than a standard soft spring fork.

I am a total bike fiddler myself and regularly service my 08 boxxers, but all this talk of stiffness, stickiness and rubber on stanchions on the new fork has put me off buying the new model this year.

In fact I know many who have totally abused the older model, e.g. a full race season and a week in the alps on an 08 WC and absolutely no servicing of any kind. They don't feel that supple, but they work, the seals work and despite my constant badgering the consistent performance means he isn't motivated enough to bother servicing them. I'm not advocating this, just showing the difference in reliability out of the box from some new model examples.

Good luck to all those who think a rebuild every few days of riding is perfectly justifiable to get a functional fork. This was not the case with the older forks, and I'd rather spend my chairlift assisted holidays on my bike.

Hopefully we will see an improved situation with some running mods from SRAM.

Couldn't agree more. But if you're racing like me then it is worth the effort/oil weep.

My Team also shipped with practically no oil or grease on the coil side... but a proper tune will unleash this forks true performance. Problem is, you're good for only a couple of days, or so it appears? Yep, be prepared to drop the lowers frequently if you like it supple. Cutting away the seals just doesn't sit with me, I certainly hope there are mods on the way.

So any suggestions for a clanky 2010 Boxxer race? First two days of riding were great, the fork felt solid and smooth through the whole stroke. I was running it with no compression and 2 clicks of rebound, so almost wide open.

The third riding trip involved a lot more speed and a lot more rocks, similar to angelfire in the sense that It had open sections that led into the really rough stuff. On the second day or riding it was wet, mucky, and everything was getting caked up and then the fork started to feel like slop (loss of any rebound even when it was cranked up/ compression knob was doing nothing.)

Got home and cleaned everything up and now there is about half an inch of travel when I push down on the bars where the fork has play and about 60% through the travel there is a clanky sound that I can feel in the bars, almost like the spring is binding inside or something.

I haven't had a chance to tear her down yet, but the oil levels are correct and the spring is fine. But right now, the rebound knob does almost nothing and the compression knob only makes the slightest difference, where as when I first pulled it out of the box, the compression felt like it would lock out the fork after 3 clicks.

Any suggestions other than tearing her down and using some slick honey??

Wow, this just doesnt sound good. I was ready to order a 2010 Team tomorrow from Go-Ride, but I think Im going to pass... sorry Kris if you are reading this. I emailed you yesterday. Im only a local racer, but I want a fork that only needs a rebuild once a year, maybe twice a year.

Kanter said:

Wow, this just doesnt sound good. I was ready to order a 2010 Team tomorrow from Go-Ride, but I think Im going to pass... sorry Kris if you are reading this. I emailed you yesterday. Im only a local racer, but I want a fork that only needs a rebuild once a year, maybe twice a year.

Click to expand...

I you rebuild your forks once or maybe twice a year, I wouldnt want to be the second to own those...

contactjt said:

A mate of mine ran his 40 without the oil seal and if felt unbelievably supple. Saying that it spat out a thin layer of oil onto the stanchions most runs which needs to be wiped off. Lube oil needs to be replenished often as well. Pretty much a very high maintenance race mod, but fantastically frictionless results. Literally night and day. His medium spring fork felt considerably more plush than a standard soft spring fork.

I am a total bike fiddler myself and regularly service my 08 boxxers, but all this talk of stiffness, stickiness and rubber on stanchions on the new fork has put me off buying the new model this year.

In fact I know many who have totally abused the older model, e.g. a full race season and a week in the alps on an 08 WC and absolutely no servicing of any kind. They don't feel that supple, but they work, the seals work and despite my constant badgering the consistent performance means he isn't motivated enough to bother servicing them. I'm not advocating this, just showing the difference in reliability out of the box from some new model examples.

Good luck to all those who think a rebuild every few days of riding is perfectly justifiable to get a functional fork. This was not the case with the older forks, and I'd rather spend my chairlift assisted holidays on my bike.

Hopefully we will see an improved situation with some running mods from SRAM.

Click to expand...

Good call. My "chopped" MCU did give back an extra inch of travel. But today (day 4 of riding), my '10 Team got a massive case of the stickies. It feels like I could pull the spring out and just use the stiction as a spring. Left stanchion has some dry streaking on it. I've not pulled it apart yet, but I'm guessing there's no lube in the lower left leg.

Kind of disappointed and hope this isn't a weekly chore.

karpi said:

I you rebuild your forks once or maybe twice a year, I wouldnt want to be the second to own those...

Click to expand...

A 66 or 888 only needs to be rebuilt once or twice a year if you ride as often as most people do.

Here is the other mod, that I am now currently trying:

I've replaced the oil seal...

Basically the oil and dust seals are an over kill because RS has to cover their asses from people who do absolutely no maintenance all together. This messes people like you and me up big time - the fork wont perform as well so that it can last longer between services for the people who are spannerphobic.

Pull out the dust seal (recommended to replace with new one if you gouge it too much when removing) and then get at the oil seal (all instructions for removal are in RS pdf). One side will be flat and one side will have a hole in it. The flat side is the 'top'. You'll notice that there in fact two lips in this oil seal, one on each edge. The flat side lip is the one you have to get creative with.

Find a very sharp stanley knife and cut the lip out of the seal. It took me about 1 minute per seal doing it properly. Make sure you go around a few times so that the lip is no longer the furthest sticking out part of the seal - it's the bottom lip that you have left well alone!

AEvans said:

Here is the other mod, that I am now currently trying:

I've replaced the oil seal...

Basically the oil and dust seals are an over kill because RS has to cover their asses from people who do absolutely no maintenance all together. This messes people like you and me up big time - the fork wont perform as well so that it can last longer between services for the people who are spannerphobic.

Pull out the dust seal (recommended to replace with new one if you gouge it too much when removing) and then get at the oil seal (all instructions for removal are in RS pdf). One side will be flat and one side will have a hole in it. The flat side is the 'top'. You'll notice that there in fact two lips in this oil seal, one on each edge. The flat side lip is the one you have to get creative with.

Find a very sharp stanley knife and cut the lip out of the seal. It took me about 1 minute per seal doing it properly. Make sure you go around a few times so that the lip is no longer the furthest sticking out part of the seal - it's the bottom lip that you have left well alone!

Click to expand...

What you've done is turn your twin lip seal into a single lip. Great idea, as I can't see the reason for having an oil seal lip for the side with no oil. I don't know why they speck them with those. Single lips are also a much more common site at a bearing shop as well.

dilzy said:

What you've done is turn your twin lip seal into a single lip. Great idea, as I can't see the reason for having an oil seal lip for the side with no oil. I don't know why they speck them with those. Single lips are also a much more common site at a bearing shop as well.

Click to expand...

Sry for threadjack but do you think this mod would be suitable for the pre 10' fork ?

k1creeker said:

I simply cut an inch off the MCU. I'll be riding again on Monday to see if I get back an inch of travel. In theory the bottom out would just happen later in the forks travel. Since I'm not dropping huge to flat, I'm not concerned if the MCU is in there or not. I wouldn't be surprised if someone offered up a softer compound in the future.

I think Rock Shox leaned towards the safe side when designing the drop stop. Meaning, better to have riders give up some travel, for the sake of bottoming out hard, breaking internals in the process. Perhaps they wanted the freeriders seal of approval.

Click to expand...

if anything I think they leaned on the side of this being designed as a race fork. ie being slammed into sh#t at high speeds w/ out blowing through its travel. I'm 155lb, running the med spring (160-180lb recommended) and I've managed the full 8" with the drop stop turned almost all the way in. yeah it feels like a fairly hard mcu but if you could compress it with your fingers it would be useless.

personally I'm glad they released a couple forks (team/wc) designed and damped for actual racing and hard riding rather than feeling nice and plush in the parking lot like the old boxxer.

I got to race my 2010 WC yesterday. I got two more days of riding on it and by race time I was very happy with the fork. When I first rode it I felt it was a bit stiff, but it is breaking in nicely. For a test I swapped bikes with a friend that has an 08 WC so we could compare performance between the two. We both agreed that my 10 was smoother and more supple than his 08.

What have I done to get my fork to feel better than the previous model?
1. As you should do with any RS fork I pulled the lowers and filled the seal, wiper and gap btwn them with Slick Honey. Slick Honey works better than Judy Butter which is thicker.
2. I've actually ridden my fork. Guys the 10 Boxxer is built to last and because of that requires some break-in time.

go-ride.com said:

I got to race my 2010 WC yesterday. I got two more days of riding on it and by race time I was very happy with the fork. When I first rode it I felt it was a bit stiff, but it is breaking in nicely. For a test I swapped bikes with a friend that has an 08 WC so we could compare performance between the two. We both agreed that my 10 was smoother and more supple than his 08.

What have I done to get my fork to feel better than the previous model?
1. As you should do with any RS fork I pulled the lowers and filled the seal, wiper and gap btwn them with Slick Honey. Slick Honey works better than Judy Butter which is thicker.
2. I've actually ridden my fork. Guys the 10 Boxxer is built to last and because of that requires some break-in time.

Click to expand...

Well now you're going to far. For $1500 I expect my fork to be pre-ridden for me on top of comming with crap dampers and loose tolerances so I can neglect it for an entire season and it still slides up and down all smooth while the bushings and internals turn to sh*t.

contactjt said:

A mate of mine ran his 40 without the oil seal and if felt unbelievably supple. Saying that it spat out a thin layer of oil onto the stanchions most runs which needs to be wiped off.

Click to expand...

did he cut out the lower seal or something? coz the 40 only runs one seal anyway, well, a sorta combination seal.

well I have solved all of my issues thanks to my super mechanically inclined riding buddy. We tore her down, changed the oil, lubed her up with some slick honey and it feels perfect again. Once broken in, it feels great.

How often are you going to have to relube the Boxxer to keep it feeling good? Any ideas from people who have some significant time on the fork.

Kanter said:

How often are you going to have to relube the Boxxer to keep it feeling good? Any ideas from people who have some significant time on the fork.

Click to expand...

if you do the slick honey all over the seals and fresh oil after the first ride you will be good to go for some time.

of course putting something like triflow on the upper tubes should be done at least before or after each day of riding (or more in **** weather)... but that is at simple as putting a few drops on your finger tip, applying to upper tubes, compress fork a few times, and wipe clean... this just pulls dust/dirt out of the top lip of dust seal and keeps it nice and smooth.... you should do this to any fork as dust seals have no other way of staying lubed, and get dirty from doing their job.

as for dropping the lowers and applying fresh grease and oil.... I did it two weeks ago and have since ridden a weekend at bromont and three days at US Open and it still feels perfect.

Seems like after getting it set once you can stick to SRAMS recommended service interval (roughly once a month and a 5 minute job)... this varies depending on the weather and trail conditions. i personally do not wait for it to start feeling like it needs service and do it once a month regardless.

bent_steel said:

well I have solved all of my issues thanks to my super mechanically inclined riding buddy. We tore her down, changed the oil, lubed her up with some slick honey and it feels perfect again. Once broken in, it feels great.

Click to expand...

Bent Steel,
The lubing of the lowers seems to have fixed you stiction issue, but what about the rebound and compresssion issues you were having?

I only ask as my rebound and compression knobs now do nothing to change the feel of the fork. I've gotten rid of the stiction by lubing the seals and adding oil to both lowers, but the cartridge side now clunks and offers no response to any change in setting.

Any thoughts?


For those worried about the maintenence, the lowers are a piece of cake to remove and the whole lube process takes less than a half hour your first time through. Including removal of the brakes, etc.

I do have to say however, that the 203 post mount bracket is the worst design ever. No more simply pulling off the adaptor (while retaining the caliper's alignment. You now have to remove the caliper from the mount and re-align when you install again.

k1creeker said:

I do have to say however, that the 203 post mount bracket is the worst design ever. No more simply pulling off the adaptor (while retaining the caliper's alignment. You now have to remove the caliper from the mount and re-align when you install again.

Click to expand...

unless you are running brakes that do not have a 2 bolt clamp at the lever (pretty much all brakes are two bolt these days).... simply take the lever off the bar oster_oops: