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Exclusive:Trek Wind Tunnel Test

numerik

numerik

Monkey
Jul 22, 2005
473
8
Slovenia, Europe
Is this a joke? They "killed" skinsuites and now this! WTF? I'm sure if it's windy in Canberra, top racers will use jerseys of smaller size. Would be even more interesting if WC were again in Livigno, where wind and the general speed of the track obviously have huge effect.
 
D

DH Dad

Monkey
Jun 12, 2002
436
30
MA
I love that picture of Leov, zero forward vision and unless the course is as smooth as a highway he's going to take the bars off his goggles in that position. Call me crazy but I don't think your elbows should ever go beyond 90 degrees on a mountain bike.
 
cesar_rojo

cesar_rojo

Monkey
Feb 29, 2008
175
21
I think lycra ban, always the visor on rules need to go off again, this is all about speed, don't imagine valentino rossi on baggie leathers...

To look cool we have freeride, this is all about being fastest on mountain :)
 
numerik

numerik

Monkey
Jul 22, 2005
473
8
Slovenia, Europe
cesar_rojo said:
I think lycra ban, always the visor on rules need to go off again, this is all about speed, don't imagine valentino rossi on baggie leathers...

To look cool we have freeride, this is all about being fastest on mountain :)
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I'm sure this rules won't last long. As you said Cesar...it's all about the speed.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
I don't think it will change as long as there won't a consesus about using them. Still I think it's silly. I don't really see a nich sport like dh doing F1 type stuff to win. Crazy.
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Am I the only one that thinks this is way cool? I've always been surprised that no-one has looked into this sort of thing more, I applaud Trek! If nothing else it'll be an interesting read.
 
numerik

numerik

Monkey
Jul 22, 2005
473
8
Slovenia, Europe
- seb said:
Am I the only one that thinks this is way cool? I've always been surprised that no-one has looked into this sort of thing more, I applaud Trek! If nothing else it'll be an interesting read.
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Wind testing in moto gear on a bike? C'mon. They've done this before but in appropriate suit;)
I'm sure Trek did this just for marketing.
 
CBJ

CBJ

year old fart
Mar 19, 2002
12,874
4,214
Copenhagen, Denmark
Well at least Trek is putting time and money into their team. Just go back a couple of years when it seem like everybody ran away from DH. Stuff like this should only add to the tension build up for the worlds.
 
Sverre

Sverre

Monkey
Aug 26, 2004
400
0
Norwaii
Cool marketing stunt from Trek for sure!
There might be a few hundreds in aero dynanics, but I don´t think that will settle the score in Cambera.
Looking forward to follow the race :)
 
SuspectDevice

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,161
368
Roanoke, VA
Seems to me like Martin stirring the pot, as well he should.

Skinsuits will be mandatory at the World Slalom Championships in 2011. For sure.
 
bizutch

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
numerik said:
Wind testing in moto gear on a bike? C'mon. They've done this before but in appropriate suit;)
I'm sure Trek did this just for marketing.
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You have to measure your current kit's drag to know what your loss of drag is when you switch to aero stuff. You don't know what advantage you've gained if you don't have a starting point.

I've got so many comments about those pics, but I don't know the story behind them yet. Mostly things like "Box o' Nerds"..general tom foolery.:p

While I understand it being results they're after, I can only see it pushing racing off to the fringe that much worse if they go back to all aero stuff. What Nico and the Commencal team did with shaving down the fit and trimness of their "moto" kits seems like the most sensible way to go for a balance of marketing look and racing slickness.

I would want to think most time on a DH track is from the elements of rock, root and momentum, as opposed to aerodynamics and positioning. DH skiing and moto GP have so many far few variables to overcome...wind, traction, horsepower, tire compound, etc. Yeah, I broke them down to basics for simplicity.

A wind tunnel will amplify performance when wind is the primary contributing factor to gaining time in a sport like road cycling. And I have NO DOUBT that Sam Hill in a skinsuit with no visor is faster than Sam Hill in full moto kit. But I firmly believe if you put both of those Sam's (video gamers delight) on any World Cup course we've had this year, they'd probably tie.
 
gav_dub100

gav_dub100

Chimp
Aug 26, 2009
27
0
Dublin
- seb said:
Am I the only one that thinks this is way cool? I've always been surprised that no-one has looked into this sort of thing more, I applaud Trek! If nothing else it'll be an interesting read.
Click to expand...
Completely agree! I wouldn't all for the reintroduction of skinsuits and no visor at all but why not test and see what other ways there are of streamlining the aerodynamics? And if the difference in results is negligible, at least it known for definite as opposed to "that probably wouldn't make any difference!" You never know, next-gen dh bikes might end up with a front splitter and rear diffuser... probably not though!
 
H

HaveFaith

Monkey
Mar 11, 2006
338
0
Been wondering how long it would take to come to this. There are definitely seconds to be had on the bike alone...
 
M

MDJ

Monkey
Dec 15, 2005
669
0
San Jose, CA
numerik said:
I'm sure Trek did this just for marketing.
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It obviously worked. Cover shot and feature article in the main DH magazine. The publicity generated more than offset the cost of the wind tunnel time.

I'm sure they got some really interesting data too, espcially compared to the differences they get from road bikes. Whether it's useful in the real world is debatable.
 
zdubyadubya

zdubyadubya

Turbo Monkey
Apr 13, 2008
1,273
96
Ellicott City, MD
i cant believe anyone is taking this seriously... its just a bunch of wind tunnel nerds and dhers having some fun. dude, if someone wanted me to jump into a wind tunnel for kicks and giggles i would do it in a heartbeat. sounds like a riot. there is probably no way that a world cup rider is coming towards the finish and thinking.. "what was that position that we figured out i should be in to get the least amount of drag?" its probably more like "sh*tsh*tsh*tsh*t...gotta go gotta go gotta go... crankcrankcrank!"
 
Jason4

Jason4

Monkey
Aug 27, 2008
338
0
Bellingham
Wind tunnel time is not cheap. The last tunnel I worked in was $1400/hour but it was also temperature controlled down to -20C. I'd guess a tunnel like that to be around $1000/hour.

I bet they had some time left over from the road bike program. Every little bit counts too, especially at the world cup level when the racers are all at such a high level. Even self confidence makes a difference.
 
S

Slater

Monkey
Oct 10, 2007
378
0
Guarantee you the expense for this will be posted to Trek's "Marketing Expenses" for the 09 tax year.

If you're reading into this whole thing more than that, then Trek won.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,368
1,606
Warsaw :/
Jason4 said:
Wind tunnel time is not cheap. The last tunnel I worked in was $1400/hour but it was also temperature controlled down to -20C. I'd guess a tunnel like that to be around $1000/hour.

I bet they had some time left over from the road bike program. Every little bit counts too, especially at the world cup level when the racers are all at such a high level. Even self confidence makes a difference.
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That's pretty cheap for an advertisement that everyone will talk about.

I also wonder what the next crazy ad/pseudo science program will be? Testing if being covered in butter makes you faster?
 
I

iandude94

Monkey
May 30, 2008
426
0
OC, NY
as stupid as this whole thing sounds, i'm sure that gee would have won that race that he lost by .02 if he had done this pre-race.
 
A

A.P

Monkey
Nov 21, 2005
423
0
boston
love the narrow bars on the aero test bike...so much for figuring out aerodynamic posturing on something not at all like their real bikes.

Furthermore much of that stuff is not even UCI legal. Any protruding fairings, windscreens, or any aerodynamic assemblies on the bike are illegal, as well as anything worn to improve aerodynamics (like the upper back fairing they made, or the helmet windscreen)

good marketing though..
 
time-bomb

time-bomb

Monkey
May 2, 2008
957
21
right here -> .
I agree, a good marketing stunt by Trek.

What's next? Fox scaling the 40 RC2 down to a 15 RC2 to lower wind drag on the fork with triangular legs to cut through the air?
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
A.P said:
Furthermore much of that stuff is not even UCI legal. Any protruding fairings, windscreens, or any aerodynamic assemblies on the bike are illegal, as well as anything worn to improve aerodynamics (like the upper back fairing they made, or the helmet windscreen)
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But it's not a fairing, it's a mudguard, duh! :)
 
rayhaan

rayhaan

Monkey
Oct 18, 2007
522
0
ireland
leov did amazing at val di sole last year, he finished 6th which was effing amazing. I would have to agree with Akula_7, leov definitely has a very good shot at a medal in Canberra!
 
CRoss

CRoss

Turbo Monkey
Nov 20, 2006
1,329
0
The Ranch
A.P said:
love the narrow bars on the aero test bike...so much for figuring out aerodynamic posturing on something not at all like their real bikes.

Furthermore much of that stuff is not even UCI legal. Any protruding fairings, windscreens, or any aerodynamic assemblies on the bike are illegal, as well as anything worn to improve aerodynamics (like the upper back fairing they made, or the helmet windscreen)

good marketing though..
Click to expand...
Who cares if it is illegal according to the rules. Testing is all about testing. They decided to test all the variables and see what the real effects are. Rather than all the speculating everyone here does Trek now has hard data to support whether or not something can improve your time on a race course. If you do not test everything you cannot make comparisons. So you need to test skinsuits and baggy moto gear, narrow bars and wide bars. looks like they even tested helmets with visors and goggles and compared them to helmets with face shields. I cannot believe no one has talked about how impractical the deep v rims they tested are. DH is all about technology and this is just another piece of technology being used to progress the sport and improve the speeds and times in which we race downhill. Last I checked the serious racers do not pick equipment on how cool it is but how it will improve their performance. Some of the things Trek has discovered and might use the amateurs here will call it stupid and cheesy until it is winning races, then they will change their tune.
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Of course wind-tunnel isn't the be-all and end-all. It is for TT riders, as it's a good simulation of what they do on the road. For DH though there's a lot more to it. Specifically any aero benefits need to be weighed up against the loss in suspension/accelerative performance from the extra weight of the aero parts. The deep V wheels, especially, are going to be a poor choice on most courses, I'd wager.

Doesn't mean that there's no place for any aero parts - some will weigh barely any more than normal parts. It'd have to be weighed up on a course-by-course basis though.
 
- seb

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
And it strengthens my opinion that Martin Whitely is DH's very own Ross Brawn - glad someone's taking things seriously :)
 
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