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Speeding ticket pleading tips

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
Yo all, a little advice, please!

I have a court date for speeding tomorrow night (55 in a 30 while driving through an abandoned NYS Park on my way to a ride, caught by park police). I originally plead guilty but changed my mind when I found out that it's 6 points on the license.

Any tips from you all on pleading down? I am already planning on pointing out my current clean record and the fact that I'm signed up for defensive driving class (free at work!).

What other "tools" can I put in my toolbox for tomorrow night? It's a small town court, FYI.

THANKS!
 

Nick

My name is Nick
Sep 21, 2001
23,928
14,450
where the trails are
Take a lawyer to court with you.
It shows the court that you take the charge seriously, and with a little research you can find an attorney who has a good relationship with the local prosecutor.

My last trip to court (knock wood) was for 89 in a 55. My lawyer spoke to (a) the officer then (b) the prosecuting attorney. When my case was called the judge asked the officer if I gave him any trouble at the time I was pulled over (which I did not) and since I have a great record the prosecutor suggested supervision and a fine. My ticket COULD have fetched me a suspension for reckless driving. (30+ over posted limit)

There were other bozos in court that morning who showed zero respect to the court and judge, and that judge threw the book at them for lesser charges. IIRC my total out-of-pocket cost was maybe $300-350, and after 90 days of clean driving the ticket disappeared.
 

BurlyShirley

Rex Grossman Will Rise Again
Jul 4, 2002
19,180
17
TN
Show up dressed as a nun, wielding a super-soaker full of cottage cheese...and then plead insanity.
 

Jm_

sled dog's bollocks
Jan 14, 2002
18,855
9,560
AK
Just before Christmas I got 65 in a 40 in a residential area. I don't usually speed like that, but I was blowing off stem (with the full-power launch) after having finished the majority of my research project. Anyhow, there was no easy way out of that, and I fessed up to the cop. The cop did say (in a strange way) that he didn't know, but maybe I could do traffic school or something. I think he was trying to downplay the fact that I could do this, but he was probably pretty pissed I was going fast. He said he wasn't going to take me to jail, but that he could due to it being a residential area.

Except for residential areas, they can't write you up for going over the speed limit in AZ, it's simply exceeding a "prudent and resonable" speed. That sometimes works to our advantage, but over 85mph and it's criminal speeding. For these rules, I generally never cruise faster than 5mph above the speed limit. (We also have speed-cameras and photo-vans down in Phoenix). On our 75mph highways, it doesn't make sense to me to cruise above 80, and even though I do exceed what I've just discussed above occasionally, I make damn sure I'm in a deserted area or I can see that there's nothing out there.

Otherwise it's just not worth it to cruise 10+ above the speed limit. You're going to get caught, somewhere between 5 and 10mph over is where most cops will make the decision to pull you over. Sure, ALL the traffic may be moving faster, but as soon as you contribute to 10+ over, I'd say you're pretty fair game, no "but every one else was going fast....".

Otherwise, my tip is to use a Thule T2 with a big DH bike on the back. Photo cameras and vans usually can't get the plate number (personal experience). :D

Look into traffic school. You might have to do the research yourself.

With a pretty fast car, I make damn sure the area is deserted, and I bring the speed back down if I'm unsure. It's just not worth it. I really should have 2 tickets against me, but right now I have zero, and it's been that way for about 8 years.
 

AngryMetalsmith

Business is good, thanks for asking
Jun 4, 2006
21,082
9,792
I have no idea where I am
Storm into the court room and point your finger and shout " you're out of order, this whole court is out of order " and " you can't handle the truth ! " Then pull a barbie doll from your pocket, plop down on the floor in front of the bench, rock back and forth while chanting " I'm a pretty, pretty princess ".

If you follow these simple steps you will never have to worry about speeding tickets ever again.
 

X3pilot

Texans fan - LOL
Aug 13, 2007
5,860
1
SoMD
Call and asked the date to be postponed due to something, they will generally reschedule your appearance.

Forget the cop not showing up thing, they have a cop who's job that day is to sit in court and represent the writing officer.

If you've had no other tickets, make sure the ass't DA or prosecutor knows this before the court session starts. Press that issue. First offense, blah blah blah.
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
14
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
Storm into the court room and point your finger and shout " you're out of order, this whole court is out of order " and " you can't handle the truth ! " Then pull a barbie doll from your pocket, plop down on the floor in front of the bench, rock back and forth while chanting " I'm a pretty, pretty princess ".

If you follow these simple steps you will never have to worry about speeding tickets ever again.
Rep given...

:rofl: your way of calling him a princess was way better than mine.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Just be honest, dress appropriately, and get a copy of your otherwise clean (I hope) record. My GF went in to contest her ticket and the shrank it to a non-moving violation and she got out for 150 bucks and no points. I haven't gotten a speeding ticket yet (knock knock knock wood) but I've had several others for various things, and I've gotten out of them all by being mostly honest and doing what I needed to do.
 

Sghost

Turbo Monkey
Jul 13, 2008
1,038
0
NY
Get Lennie to go in with you, youll be out downing beer and wings with the court in no time.

If he's busy, go non-guilty, explain your situation that you didn't mean too, have a good driving record, would never speed in school zones, and definitely play up that you drive a lesbo car rather than a sports car.

Try to make it there early early, so you can talk with the cop, be sincere and polite.

Female cop or male?
 
If a Park Police Officer stopped you; you can try all the sound advice above( and by that I mean the good posts.....those were quite helpful) or you can try and contest the ticket and the dispute the PARK officers testimony............ask how he clocked you; if he used a radar.....ask when he was last qualified with it...........when and how he performed the requisite tuning tests; what his zone of influence was and how many other vehicles were on the road with you, how he eliminated those others from his zone and how he knew it was you. Ask how many times he's used said radar and how proficient he thinks he is.
If you were on a dirt road there might be a posted a limit and he could be out on a limb.

WHatever you do..........be contrite; polite; dress accordingly; and if you get found guilty........DO NOT fly into a rage. Bare minimum I would reschedule once and on the second date try to request a lesser charge in exchange for a guilty plea.

Good luck
 

stevew

resident influencer
Sep 21, 2001
40,496
9,526
If a Park Police Officer stopped you; you can try all the sound advice above( and by that I mean the good posts.....those were quite helpful) or you can try and contest the ticket and the dispute the PARK officers testimony............ask how he clocked you; if he used a radar.....ask when he was last qualified with it...........when and how he performed the requisite tuning tests; what his zone of influence was and how many other vehicles were on the road with you, how he eliminated those others from his zone and how he knew it was you. Ask how many times he's used said radar and how proficient he thinks he is.
If you were on a dirt road there might be a posted a limit and he could be out on a limb.

WHatever you do..........be contrite; polite; dress accordingly; and if you get found guilty........DO NOT fly into a rage. Bare minimum I would reschedule once and on the second date try to request a lesser charge in exchange for a guilty plea.

Good luck
and be prepared to get fvcked extra hard when all of the above fails.
 
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Wumpus

makes avatars better
Dec 25, 2003
8,161
153
Six Shooter Junction
Look into deferred adjudication*...worked for my brother -- he is a lawyer though.




*In texas, it essentially probation(6 months or so) where if you go without a ticket then the offense is not put on your record.
 

loco-gringo

Crusading Clamp Monkey
Sep 27, 2006
8,887
14
Deep in the heart of TEXAS
I just love how people just get caught and act like you need to fight the man. How often do you speed??? If it's a jury, plan on them stuffing it in your ass for wasting their day over your saving $200 and 6 points. I had my time wasted 6 weeks ago, when we were super busy at the shop but I had duty anyway because this dickhead couldn't follow a safe distance and was too f*#king cheap to pay his $115 and be a man. Let us know how much less it is when you pay the fine and the court's fees.
 

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
Get Lennie to go in with you, youll be out downing beer and wings with the court in no time.

If he's busy, go non-guilty, explain your situation that you didn't mean too, have a good driving record, would never speed in school zones, and definitely play up that you drive a lesbo car rather than a sports car.

Try to make it there early early, so you can talk with the cop, be sincere and polite.

Female cop or male?
I should've called Lennie! Lennie is our mutual friend who used to work for the "drug interdiction task force" - a combo state police/US Marshall/DEA deal; but then got sucked into the anti terrorist task force post 9/11 because "I don't know no terrorists, too many relatives want me to get their kids outta jail, can't even go to a family reunion anymore!" I love that guy. Once in his undercover car, he pulled my wife over in Ravena (backwoods by us) just to say "Hi". Scared the hell out of her.

Thanks to all for the advice- sarcastic, good, angry and pre-pubescent - Jim
 

berkshire_rider

Growler
Feb 5, 2003
2,552
10
The Blackstone Valley
Forget the cop not showing up thing, they have a cop who's job that day is to sit in court and represent the writing officer.
There's a slightly better chance of park police not showing up then state or town police.

That said, for 25 over the posted limit - you should get a lawyer. It's going to cost you some $$$, but a lawyer can get it pleaded down to something lesser, and can go to court on your behalf. You'll just have to write a check.

6 points is a big deal, especially for your auto insurance.
 

mullet_dew

Monkey
Mar 22, 2009
224
0
Bellingham WA
Find a lawyer that specializes in this stuff, my friend is a UPS driver and an amateur sprint car racer, he has a lawyer contest the ticket for him and drown the court in paperwork until they drop it. Pretty shady, but he can keep his job and his license.
 

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
WTF are park police doing in an abandoned park? :confused:

Was this in Pittstown?
Wrong choice of words - the park was not opened yet to the public- Thatcher State park - the main road (Route 157) goes right through the park.

The only tickets they give in Pittstown are to the ATV's! :D

The place is a classic speed trap - goes from 55 to 30 in a heartbeat.
 

dante

Unabomber
Feb 13, 2004
8,807
9
looking for classic NE singletrack
Ok, if this was in NY, here's the deal:

As long as you're not in NYC, you can have your day in court with the cop and the judge. Show up for the court date (note, this is the COURT date, not the date which you had to have pleaded guilty to. The date on the ticket is only the date by which you have to submit a plea, not the actual court date), and you'll all sit together in the courtroom ahead of time. They'll make an announcement that the cops are there and you'll have a chance to talk with them ahead of time. Cops come in, call your names one by one, and when your name is called you go off and speak to the cop privately. As long as the traffic stop went fine, they'll almost ALWAYS drop it down to 5mph over the speed limit if you're willing to plead guilty. Then you agree to that, and then you get to wait for your time in front of the judge. The court session starts, and everybody goes through it pleading guilty to 5mph over. I've sat through this probably 3-4 times (yes, I need to slow down) and I've yet to hear someone plead guilty to anything more than this. They'll run through the "I plead guilty" cases first, and there's usually a handful who want to fight (that I never hear since I've always plead guilty in court), so there's a chance that the cop offers something else to them, but if your record is clean you're golden. Here's my outcomes:

1) Failure to obey traffic control device = dismissed b/c cop didn't show up
2) 47 in a 35 = plead guilty to 5mph over
3) 77 in a 55 = plead guilty to seatbelt violation (how I got away with this I have no idea)
4) 47 in a 30 = plead guilty with an explanation BY MAIL and was reduced to failure to obey traffic control device.

As an FYI the charge you plead guilty to has to be approved by the judge, so in the seatbelt charge above he was PISSED at the speed and the prior speeding ticket which was still on my record, and tacked on an additional $50 (so totaled almost $200)... but no points.

If you had noted this a couple weeks ago I would have advised you to find ANY excuse to reschedule your court date. I can't imagine that the Park Police would have too many tickets to show up for, so if you could have rescheduled it there would have been even more chance that you'd be his only reason to show up at all. It's a little late for that though...

Also, in NY the whole DD thing doesn't mean anything other than getting points off of your license for insurance purposes. I've never heard that as an option in lieu of a fine/ticket. Just push for a non-moving violation (broken speedometer, seatbelt, etc) so that the NEXT time you get a ticket you won't have a prior violation on your record.

And most of all, have fun, it's really the only experience some of us have in dealing with the courts/legal system in this country.

edit: NY used to levy a $25 "court surcharge" which was the additional amount you'd have to pay for fighting it in court (or even just showing up to plead it down). However, this was much better than getting the full amount of points and the resulting insurance increase, but it's just something to note.
 
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Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
Thanks Dante! That was the help I was looking for, not the whole "suck it up, dood" stuff; and I am totally looking forward to it tonight, should be fun! Kind of like getting psyched for a DH race run, actually - same kind of mindset.

Other good advice I have gotten thus far:

from http://www.speedingticketcentral.com/got-a-speeding-ticket.html

So what do you do? You engage in that honorable American institution known as The Plea Bargain. On the day of your trial, before you go in front of the Judge, you will be approached by either the Cop who wrote the ticket or by an ADA, or Assistant District Attorney. This pretty much depends on the population density where you got the ticket.

Now is where you tell them, in quite simple language, that you know you were doing wrong and you're mostly worried about the points. Ask them if it's possible to plead guilty to a non-points charge instead and pay the fine. Now, remember when I said you shouldn't annoy the cop by asking for a supporting deposition? This is where it pays off. Basically, if you didn't do anything to annoy the cop either at the original stop or later on along the way, he's pretty much not going to care. If you have an ADA then he's going to ask the cop if he's OK with any deal.

Now, sometimes you can't get the deal you want. OK, try for what you can get. If they ADA says that he can't let off the hook with no points, ask him if there is anything he CAN do for you. What's the worst he can say, no?

I have encountered exactly TWO courts in 20 years that simply will not allow plea bargains of any kind and they are both in suburbs of Cleveland, so unless you're there, don't worry about it.

OK, so there are two possibilities now. a) You struck a bargain b) You struck out

90% of the time you'll have struck a bargain, and you can almost always get rid of the points. At this time you'll go back into the courtroom and wait to be called. When you are, walk to the front of the courtroom, say "I'm your honor." and shut up. The cop or ADA will do the talking for you, there will come a moment when the Judge will ask if you agree to the plea bargain. You say: "Yes, your honor" and shut up. The Judge tells you what the fine is and hands you off to the court clerk. By the way, you REALLY should have your fine money with you already. This is NOT the moment to be asking for time to pay, but if for some reason you don't, then you better speak up before you walk over to the clerk. Make sure you know how long you need and I strongly advise you to make sure sure it's not longer than a couple of weeks. Pay what you can on the spot.

Now, let's say that you were not able to strike a bargain. Well, you have two choices. You can try to cross-examine the cop during your trial, hoping to trip him up. Trust me when I say that this is pretty much a waste of time and will annoy the Judge, especially if you're clumsy about it. They HATE wannabee lawyers. OR, you can take that sob story you've been saving and tell it to the Judge. Keep it short though, and don't insult the man's intelligence. Ask for a reduction in fine if you want. Ask whatever. You've really got nothing to lose at this point. Unless you do something stupid like argue with him or smart off of course... Now you're done. Pay your fine or ask for time to pay and go home.

Using this method you will almost always be able to avoid the points. That also has an effect on your insurance. The few times you don't manage to get a favorable plea are just that, FEW. Over the long term this will keep your points down, your insurance costs down and cost you only the occasional fine. And remember; Fines are the fee you pay for the privilege of driving as fast as you want
 
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TreeSaw

Mama Monkey
Oct 30, 2003
17,670
1,848
Dancin' over rocks n' roots!
Wrong choice of words - the park was not opened yet to the public- Thatcher State park - the main road (Route 157) goes right through the park.

The only tickets they give in Pittstown are to the ATV's! :D

The place is a classic speed trap - goes from 55 to 30 in a heartbeat.
Exactly....it's always a good idea to send the ticket in requesting a supporting deposition. Also, check EVERYTHING on the ticket. If it's not 100% legible and correct the judge should throw it out no contest. If there was a question, you should also ask to see the radar tape (they can't give it to you = no ticket on the spot if they reference it as how they stopped you). Definitely go and be polite, cite your driving record and defensive driving class that's coming. Be humble and apologetic and hope for the best. Sq-Earl got out of his last ticket because the office didn't show up!

Good luck!
 

chuffer

Turbo Monkey
Sep 2, 2004
1,528
869
McMinnville, OR
Also, in NY the whole DD thing doesn't mean anything other than getting points off of your license for insurance purposes. I've never heard that as an option in lieu of a fine/ticket.
Years and years ago, I got nabbed for 70 in a 55 just outside of Hamburg NY. At the court date they dropped the charge to a parking ticket with the requirement that I plead guilty and attend two days of DD.

These days I rarely ever speed. Over the past three years I have average 50k+ driving miles per year for work. As much as not wanting to risk getting a ticket, I also didn't want to deal with hassle of always being on the lookout for HP. Sometimes it is really easier to just obey the law.
 

Jim Mac

MAKE ENDURO GREAT AGAIN
May 21, 2004
6,352
282
the middle east of NY
...ANNNND done!

The officer made me an offer of parking on the sidewalk without me even asking. $125 fine, and no points on my license (would have been 6 points!)

The moral: always go to court! There was not one ticket that was not plead down, and the house was packed.