Exclusive:Trek Wind Tunnel Test

Sverre · Aug 27, 2009

Is there a rule for the length of the helmet peak?
I do remember Sam Hill riding a really short one in forth bill if I remember correct..
Also, how baggy do the racers clothes need to be the uci rule? Will an small jersey pass tru regulations if its streched over Peatys head?

slowmtb · Aug 27, 2009

Doesn't it state that DH is the "F1" of cycling in F1RST ?

Do you see the F1 teams staying static - NO. The pursuit of excellence is relentless and it is good to see Trek taking the sport seriously. Others should follow suit, our sport will be all the better for it :thumb:

MrPlow · Aug 27, 2009

I wonder if they researched the max speeds you would reach at Canberra (slow track) andset the air speed to match? Personally I doubt aerodynamics would play any significance in most DH races, or have we already established that?

fluider · Aug 27, 2009

When aerodynamic drag becomes the significant frictional force in DH racing then expensive sessions like that one will become important. Till then it's a pure money wasting, IMO. The only result I can see they're going to get is a correct presumption that it was not worth it.

EVIL JN · Aug 27, 2009

I think that when drag becomes an important factor in racing the tracks need to be more thec and gnarly. Since rider skill should take a rider to the top step not who has the least drag, simply when riders in general get better courses need to get harder(or smaller travel bikes).

bizutch · Aug 27, 2009

what's funny is that timing chips are being used on DH tracks now as opposed to photocells and "technically" there is a small variation in when the sensor picks up individual chips crossing the line. If you had two riders cross the line within an inch of each other visually where you could actually "see" the winner on slo mo video, it may be a different result that what the chip recorded if it senses the other one first.

Even in NASCAR, they go back to the video footage to review who actually won despite powered onboard chips. But that being said, I'd rather lose to someone using chip timing than photocell timing.

CRoss · Aug 27, 2009

MrPlow said:
Personally I doubt aerodynamics would play any significance in most DH races, or have we already established that?

But you have no idea if it really does you are just guessing.

Now Trek has proof of what role aerodynamics play. I love how everyone claims it is just a marketing stunt when someone decides to really find out how much of a role aerodynamics do play. How many times does it come up just here, a lot. Aerodynamics is not something Trek can debate they really know now.

saruti · Aug 27, 2009

is there any company who check there bikes on a moving ground?
like... with roots, rocks of diferent size, mud, and other stuff you find on the ground on DH tracks?
with diferent shocks? diferent weight of rider?

I think it will be abetter test then wind tunnel...

CRoss · Aug 27, 2009

saruti said:
is there any company who check there bikes on a moving ground?
like... with roots, rocks of diferent size, mud, and other stuff you find on the ground on DH tracks?
with diferent shocks? diferent weight of rider?

I think it will be abetter test then wind tunnel...

Companies have done data acquisition from the bikes for a long time now.

norbar · Aug 27, 2009

CRoss said:
But you have no idea if it really does you are just guessing.

Now Trek has proof of what role aerodynamics play. I love how everyone claims it is just a marketing stunt when someone decides to really find out how much of a role aerodynamics do play. How many times does it come up just here, a lot. Aerodynamics is not something Trek can debate they really know now.

We have also no proof what penis size or the amount of tacos a person eats influence the result. We may have out theories but I think it needs to be tested. Man I'd be very happy if eating tacos would make you faster.

It's nice that they are testing it but they are testing it against many illegal rules and if they try to enforce them being legal than it may do more harm than good. Also besides open tracks like FT. William/Canbera it's quite obvious you won't gain much. The whole frenzy with strange experimenting came from the fact that stromlo is so faar away from a serious dh track. They are not testing it for the future of downhill but rather for one crappy track. It's enought for me that a lot of the top guys are considering going with FR bikes there.

wiscodh · Aug 27, 2009

norbar said:
We have also no proof what penis size or the amount of tacos a person eats influence the result. We may have out theories but I think it needs to be tested. Man I'd be very happy if eating tacos would make you faster.

It's nice that they are testing it but they are testing it against many illegal rules and if they try to enforce them being legal than it may do more harm than good. Also besides open tracks like FT. William/Canbera it's quite obvious you won't gain much. The whole frenzy with strange experimenting came from the fact that stromlo is so faar away from a serious dh track. They are not testing it for the future of downhill but rather for one crappy track. It's enought for me that a lot of the top guys are considering going with FR bikes there.

even if the course is "closed in" you still have a drag force on the rider. By changing the body position on the bike you can lower the drag force by probably a few lbs or drag. How is this not awesome for a rider to know?

People try to cut out a few grams on there bike and noone thinks twice. Cut a few lbs of drag and the interwebs goes insaneo.

norbar · Aug 27, 2009

wiscodh said:
even if the course is "closed in" you still have a drag force on the rider. By changing the body position on the bike you can lower the drag force by probably a few lbs or drag. How is this not awesome for a rider to know?

People try to cut out a few grams on there bike and noone thinks twice. Cut a few lbs of drag and the interwebs goes insaneo.

Because on difficult courses (ie not canberra) you gain much more by a body position that allows you to go faster than you'd by drag. If you changed your position and lowered your drag but it would result in a less fluid run or worse cornering you'd clearly loose much much more. If it was really the way with drag people would forget about traction and go for low rolling resistance.

BTW. A lot of the top pros still have quite non weight weeniesh bikes (Gee's being 41lbs)

wiscodh · Aug 27, 2009

norbar said:
Because on difficult courses (ie not canberra) you gain much more by a body position that allows you to go faster than you'd by drag. If you changed your position and lowered your drag but it would result in a less fluid run or worse cornering you'd clearly loose much much more. If it was really the way with drag people would forget about traction and go for low rolling resistance.

BTW. A lot of the top pros still have quite non weight weeniesh bikes (Gee's being 41lbs)

i understand that about riding the bike, and so does needles, loev, and mosely.

Maybe one of the rode straight up and for no reason what so ever. After some wind tunnel testing, now they crouch over. In effect lowering there drag and having no impact on there riding. Looks like a win for the riders. Faster you go the more drag has an effect. Maybe needles and leov are going to go mach 500 to beat peaty. I sure hope not cause i got peaty for the win.

The article dosent state what they found, what they tested, or how they tested. This is all just a bunch of internet engineers reading way into something. Just a few pictures, super vague write ups.

Yes i know gee's bike wieghts 41lbs. I was trying to point out how rediclious the interwebs are some times.

norbar · Aug 27, 2009

wiscodh said:
i understand that about riding the bike, and so does needles, loev, and mosely.

Maybe one of the rode straight up and for no reason what so ever. After some wind tunnel testing, now they crouch over. In effect lowering there drag and having no impact on there riding. Looks like a win for the riders. Faster you go the more drag has an effect. Maybe needles and leov are going to go mach 500 to beat peaty. I sure hope not cause i got peaty for the win.

The article dosent state what they found, what they tested, or how they tested. This is all just a bunch of internet engineers reading way into something. Just a few pictures, super vague write ups.

Yes i know gee's bike wieghts 41lbs. I was trying to point out how rediclious the interwebs are some times.

Going low on lower smoother straits may be tested with a stopwatch though

No need for a test tunnel

Drag is important but dh is so many factors at once than only real life tests will give you something if they are not testing stuff other than clothing/gear.

CRoss · Aug 27, 2009

I believe Nico took the time to figure out at what speed it was better to get into a tuck vs sprinting pedaling. Getting into a wind tunnel will just help you determine the best form to be in while in that tuck. There are many ways to position your body and a wind tunnel will really tell you what those best positions are.

frorider · Aug 27, 2009

stiksandstones · Aug 27, 2009

maybe the wind tunnel tests werent for the worlds, maybe they are secretly baggin the worlds and headed to mammoth with some rubber suits for the kamikaze reunion???

- seb · Aug 27, 2009

bizutch said:
what's funny is that timing chips are being used on DH tracks now as opposed to photocells and "technically" there is a small variation in when the sensor picks up individual chips crossing the line. If you had two riders cross the line within an inch of each other visually where you could actually "see" the winner on slo mo video, it may be a different result that what the chip recorded if it senses the other one first.

Even in NASCAR, they go back to the video footage to review who actually won despite powered onboard chips. But that being said, I'd rather lose to someone using chip timing than photocell timing.

I think you might be mistaken. In the UK we've used the "timing chips" at a few races, but they're only used to identify the rider crossing the line. The rider still breaks a light beam to start/stop the timing, the chip is just there as an extra backup alongside someone manually writing down the number of each rider as they start/finish.

norbar · Aug 27, 2009

frorider said:

Besides the butt**** position what's the prototype bike? Looks kinda strange.

AlCapone · Aug 27, 2009

MrPlow said:
I wonder if they researched the max speeds you would reach at Canberra (slow track) andset the air speed to match? Personally I doubt aerodynamics would play any significance in most DH races, or have we already established that?

I think it may. Try running in super baggy clothes, and then try running in your boxers. The difference is noticeable. I'd imagine at DH race speeds it you matter even more.

norbar · Aug 27, 2009

AlCapone said:
I think it may. Try running in super baggy clothes, and then try running in your boxers. The difference is noticeable. I'd imagine at DH race speeds it you matter even more.

It's understandable at a track like Ft. William where you go really fast, on stromlo the differance is smaller but looking at Mosleys time last year it matters in canberra. When skillfull riding is not there to differentiate the riders everything matters.

toodles · Aug 27, 2009

If anyone has been to stromlo, I'm sure they'll agree that the best aerodynamic advantage would be from avoiding the cross-winds rather than the head-on wind resistance. Nothing like landing 3 metres to the left of the line you were on when you left the ground....

gav_dub100 · Aug 28, 2009

The TLD D3 was aero-tested and designed with aerodynamics in mind! didnt see any hullabaloo over that!

Trekrules · Aug 28, 2009

That fork has 100mm travel

OGRipper · Aug 28, 2009

Man what a bunch of fashion whores! :rofl:

In a sport all about getting down the hill the fastest, lots of you guys want riders at the highest level to intentionally ignore a way they might go faster so...so...they can look cool? Seriously?

Given how close the times are, checking out something as obvious as areo drag seems like a no brainer. They've been working on it for road bikes for a long time and there is a lot of knowledge out there - why not tap it and see if any of it makes sense for DH?

stiksandstones · Aug 28, 2009

OGRipper said:
Man what a bunch of fashion whores!

In a sport all about getting down the hill the fastest, lots of you guys want riders at the highest level to intentionally ignore a way they might go faster so...so...they can look cool? Seriously?

Given how close the times are, checking out something as obvious as areo drag seems like a no brainer. They've been working on it for road bikes for a long time and there is a lot of knowledge out there - why not tap it and see if any of it makes sense for DH?

Oh that's because everyone wants to be MOTOCROSS, despite the fact that the entire sport motocross is about to have the bottom fall out of it.

Total Heckler · Aug 28, 2009

OGRipper said:
Man what a bunch of fashion whores!

In a sport all about getting down the hill the fastest, lots of you guys want riders at the highest level to intentionally ignore a way they might go faster so...so...they can look cool? Seriously?

Given how close the times are, checking out something as obvious as areo drag seems like a no brainer. They've been working on it for road bikes for a long time and there is a lot of knowledge out there - why not tap it and see if any of it makes sense for DH?

+ Rep.

I could not agree more.

- seb · Aug 28, 2009

stiksandstones said:
Oh that's because everyone wants to be MOTOCROSS, despite the fact that the entire sport motocross is about to have the bottom fall out of it.

Why so?

We were chatting at a race a while ago, and decided that one of the best things that could happen to DH, would be if MX was banned. Obviously never going to happen, and something new would spring up if it was, but if it was totally banned, and there was no scope for bending the rules, what'd we get? A whole bunch of gnarly MXers and their sponsors and bikini girls, all flooding into DH. The sport would go through the roof

Gary · Aug 28, 2009

always wondered if anyone would ever find that wrap of Coke dropped mid race run on a certain welsh hillside.. :thumb:

jonKranked · Aug 28, 2009

stiksandstones said:
the entire sport motocross is about to have the bottom fall out of it.

please explain.

MDJ · Aug 28, 2009

jonKranked said:
please explain.

I'm guessing he means that the whole industry is in the crapper. Bikes and gear just aren't selling. Maybe the rumors that Chad Reed and Bubba are lovers is actually true.

MDJ · Aug 28, 2009

Whoa! It all make sense now! Aerodynamics is the reason we never see big guys winning races. The short thin guys have an aerodynaic advantage over the big boys. Just like a Ferrari has an aerodynamic advantage over a Mack truck. I'm mean really, when was the last time a big guy won a race? Oh, wait a minute...

I actually think it's cool that Trek did this. It'll be especially useful if the UCI starts having downhill asphalt races in conjunction with thier wildly popular 4x series.

CRoss · Aug 28, 2009

OGRipper said:
Man what a bunch of fashion whores!

In a sport all about getting down the hill the fastest, lots of you guys want riders at the highest level to intentionally ignore a way they might go faster so...so...they can look cool? Seriously?

Given how close the times are, checking out something as obvious as areo drag seems like a no brainer. They've been working on it for road bikes for a long time and there is a lot of knowledge out there - why not tap it and see if any of it makes sense for DH?

Taking racing seriously are you kidding me? This is DH it is all about being cool and anything that threatens that must be stupid and pointless.

IH8Rice · Aug 28, 2009

ridiculous said:
On the bright side at least UCI isnt run by Bernie Ecclestone.

maybe we need a money grubbing, loud mouth a-hole to promote cycling....then again, maybe not

norbar said:
Besides the butt**** position what's the prototype bike? Looks kinda strange.

it looks like the one from the picture someone grabbed of the Trek testers on Showa equipped bikes riding along the old Honda RN01 bikes

MDJ said:
I'm mean really, when was the last time a big guy won a race? Oh, wait a minute...

Peat has won a few and he's like 7'1" isnt he?

Sandwich · Aug 28, 2009

I herd he was 9'3" and 647 pounds. I once saw him out eat Kobayashi, but he doesn't compete because of all the nitrates in hot dogs.

Trek of all companies has the financial ability to take racing to the next level. Very few other companies could ever afford time in a wind tunnel...trek practically has their own with all the research they did on lancer and the tour duh franks.

I personally am all for pushing the genre and technology forward. Companies used to be more daring and used DH as a way to push new freaky technologies. Now, not so much...most bikes, besides say the Yeti 303DH and a few others, are not so different from one another.

I hope trek pushes the envelope and succeeds because of it. It'll bring a new angle to the sport, especially at the top level. I do hope they aren't exclusively successful though, just because they'll push other co's out of racing if so.

rossp · Aug 28, 2009

Sverre said:
Also, how baggy do the racers clothes need to be the uci rule? Will an small jersey pass tru regulations if its streched over Peatys head?

this made me think - so if someone like Peaty wore the exact same size jersey that a little whippersnapper like hill wears and it was a bit tight, would that be illegal? WTF? Can you imagine the press: "last night, world cup champion steve peat was arrested on suspicion of wearing a tight jersey"

WTF? :weee:

slowmtb · Aug 28, 2009

OGRipper said:
Man what a bunch of fashion whores!

In a sport all about getting down the hill the fastest, lots of you guys want riders at the highest level to intentionally ignore a way they might go faster so...so...they can look cool? Seriously?

Given how close the times are, checking out something as obvious as areo drag seems like a no brainer. They've been working on it for road bikes for a long time and there is a lot of knowledge out there - why not tap it and see if any of it makes sense for DH?

WORD

Straya · Aug 30, 2009

frorider said:

Anyone seen the real world testing of this position?

Blatantly stolen from Farkin

dondon · Aug 30, 2009

blackohio said:
Also, aside from Tracey it's not like any of the Trek dudes have a real chance at 1, 2 or 3

So Andrews 6th last year 1.67 seconds off the podium at Canberra means he has no real chance this year... The stuff some people spurt on the internet really cracks me up sometimes...

Jm_ · Aug 30, 2009

dondon said:
So Andrews 6th last year 1.67 seconds off the podium at Canberra means he has no real chance this year... The stuff some people spurt on the internet really cracks me up sometimes...

I'm not that interested in this thread, but in the world of racing 1.67 seconds is an eternity.

Exclusive:Trek Wind Tunnel Test

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