My Brake Debate.

I would buy the levers for $100 and not get the whole set.

i dont get it...the levers for the juicys and elixrs are only $100, but youd spend another $210 to buy the whole set?

I love my new saint brakes, but I came from a set of 6 year old hope's so I can't really compare them to avid's. The only thing is the pad contact adjuster doesn't really do that much.

I'm kinda in the same boat... any word on which would be better? Elixer or Juicy master cylinders? weight is not a concern, performance and robustness take precendence...

Juicy 5 levers are the best feeling, most reliable levers SRAM ever made. Get those...

Iridemtb said:

Sorry I was unclear. They run $100 for EACH lever body w/lever.....

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gotcha....thats crazy high still.

QBP has the front/rear for around $145ish

Juicy 7 lever, code caliper. Win.

How about the older Saint brakes. A lot of my buddies love those. Price Point has them for $180 bled without rotors.

FYI: XT and Saint were the same thing different finish.
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19265-115_SHIX79-3-Parts-70-Shimano-MTB/Shimano-XT-M765-Pre-Bled-Brake-System.htm

NoUseForAName said:

Juicy 7 lever, code caliper. Win.

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true. A friend runs this and it is money.

unless you feel the need for shiny new parts this is the way to would go

P.S. Old saint suckz!

BUY HOPE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Yes it's been a while since I last said that

elixir levers are garbage. They get sloppy on the bar (wobble) after a few hits and I have seen quite a few snapping clean off. Look closely at how they mount to the bar, pretty lame.

Juicy lever+Code caliper=sickness.

elixr levers to your code calipers. done and done

+1 Nagaredamas recommendation. I have a pair, and they have been the very definition of perfection.

where could I get juicy 7 levers? Hmmm... anyone can point me in the right direction. I have a set of CODE that's i'd like to convert...

The Elixers have been great! They bleed incredibly easily, feel more solid than the juicys, and have a nice lever shape. I had problems with my juicys pumping up over a DH run, but the Elixers did not do that to me at all, plus they are more powerful and easier to bleed than the juicys as well. My shop has had a few random issues with the brakes, but Sram is by for the most helpful company out there and makes it right immediately.

I really dislike the new Shimano levers, the ergonomics are way off for me(although that is a personal problem rather than performance related) They do seem to work well, but are slightly harder to bleed properly, and the whole freestroke thing doesn't seem to do that much. That being said, the Saints are really strong, solid feeling, and have a better bar mount than the Avids. We have had very few issues with these through my shop.

Obviously my vote goes to the Elixers (either CR or just R). I just sold my bike with my Elixers, but my new 951 will have Elixers for sure. Check 'em both out though, my big problem with the Shimanos is just the ergonomics of the new levers, the Avids just fit me a little better.

Elixers Lever blade snaps out of the lever body. ****ty design, and aren't easy to rebuild with the new master cyclinder. They may feel good but what's the point if they snap after a minor accident? Go the Juicy 5/7 route or Ultimate levers if you have the dough. A lot of the world cup guys are still running the Ultimates lever, it just feels awesome and is a little lighter than the Juicy!

Nagaredama said:

How about the older Saint brakes. A lot of my buddies love those. Price Point has them for $180 bled without rotors.

FYI: XT and Saint were the same thing different finish.
http://www.pricepoint.com/detail/19265-115_SHIX79-3-Parts-70-Shimano-MTB/Shimano-XT-M765-Pre-Bled-Brake-System.htm

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Pretty good deal but this here is a good one for the older Saints. Cambria has the calipers with centerlock rotors for $45 each. http://www.cambriabike.com/shopexd.asp?id=75770&page=SHIMANO+SAINT+BR-M800+DISC+BRAKE

Backcountry.com has the Saint levers for $65. http://www.backcountryoutlet.com/outlet/SHI0131/Shimano-America-Saint-Hydraulic-Mountain-Bike-Disc-Brake-Lever-Set.html

Total is $165 and the rotors/adapters can be sold off to re-coupe some money.

Edit: Saint levers just popped up on Chainlove for $55. Not quite as good as the $36 I got them for but pretty damn good.

saint levers are 55$ on chainlove right now, but only for another like 17 minutes.

I have M810 Saints on my bike right now. Every time I ride someone else's bike with brakes other than these, I feel like I've gone back to the stone age. The Saints have the most power, great control, a great feel and are fairly easy (if time-consuming) to bleed. The downsides to em are:
- Lever pivot is a fair way out. I used to love Avid levers because of their close-to-the-bar lever pivot, and I still think it's a bit nicer than the Saints in that regard, but I don't ever seem to have any complaints about the current levers.
- They can have a slightly inconsistent bite point if you're ascending/descending huge vertical (like the 3000ft of the Whistler bike park) where the air pressure changes quite a bit. I don't know if this is actually the reason or what, but the amount of throw does vary a bit sometimes, and I'm fairly sure it's not a bleed related issue since I've bled both ends very thoroughly and they both seem to cop it simultaneously.
- They're not cheap, and neither are pads.
- The bite point adjuster makes the lever throw feel a bit notchy if you run it at anything but minimum throw.

Still though - for me at least, it detracts from my riding fun to use any other kind of brakes. Simple as that. I've used pretty much everything else on the market too - Avids (Elixirs, Codes, Juicies), Shimano's other offerings, Maguras, most models of Hopes except for the very latest Moto ones, Hayes (everything except the Stroker Aces) etc and they just don't work as well.

Maybe look for a deal on k24s from formula? They are relatively easy to service (though a bit painfull to bleed) and after I fixed minor problem I had with mine from start they are very nice brakes. Stronger than juicy and very light and durable. Add a good braking fluid and you're set. The only consistent problem with them is that the pad wear can really be felt in the levers with them.

norbar said:

Maybe look for a deal on k24s from formula? They are relatively easy to service (though a bit painfull to bleed) and after I fixed minor problem I had with mine from start they are very nice brakes. Stronger than juicy and very light and durable. Add a good braking fluid and you're set. The only consistent problem with them is that the pad wear can really be felt in the levers with them.

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IMO the K18s are pretty much as good as the K24s. The 'FCS' adjuster is pretty much useless, so I don't mind losing it. Oros are pretty impressive though. I have a set on my Chameleon and I thought they'd be a big power downgrade compared to my The Ones, but it wasn't the case. I reckon they are better than Elixirs power wise.

Socket said:

.... I love saints... anything else feels like going back to the stone age.... etc

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Have you tried Formulas? I can't really tell the power difference between Saints and The Ones, they are both pretty up there.

Viv92 said:

IMO the K18s are pretty much as good as the K24s. The 'FCS' adjuster is pretty much useless, so I don't mind losing it. Oros are pretty impressive though. I have a set on my Chameleon and I thought they'd be a big power downgrade compared to my The Ones, but it wasn't the case. I reckon they are better than Elixirs power wise.



Have you tried Formulas? I can't really tell the power difference between Saints and The Ones, they are both pretty up there.

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Is not. I can really feel the pads wearing and without the FCS I'd throw away them before I finished them. I tweak the feel all the time so they feel the same threw the whole pad life cycle.

norbar said:

Is not. I can really feel the pads wearing and without the FCS I'd throw away them before I finished them. I tweak the feel all the time so they feel the same threw the whole pad life cycle.

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Each to their own I guess. On my Ones I can only feel a slight difference between the minimum or maximum adjustment. I just have it on the shorter/firmer feeling one all the time, not that I can really tell.

Viv92 said:

Each to their own I guess. On my Ones I can only feel a slight difference between the minimum or maximum adjustment. I just have it on the shorter/firmer feeling one all the time, not that I can really tell.

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On 24's you can use a tool to adjust it beyond what you can do by hand. This gives me quite a wide range of control. Don't know how is it in ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackalope
+1 Nagaredamas recommendation. I have a pair, and they have been the very definition of perfection.

Hmmm. elaborate please.

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I got a pair of the original "Saint" brakes (again, just re-badged XTs) probably 3-4 years ago, and they have been mint. Excellent modulation, easy bleeding, good power, very fade resistant, levers still have no slop, and it seems like they are relatively light. To me, they have been like a good headset - they just work and you don't have to think about them. I agree with Socket's opinion on Avid levers and their short throw, but I have found most of their offerings to be terribly inconsistent and unreliable. Eventually, my Shimanos they got a little "odd feeling" in sub-40* temps, but I bled them (for the first time btw) and all was well again.

I also have a new set of XTs on my DH bike, and I would go so far as to say the older verision are easily their equal in terms of performance. The new Saints on the otherhand - yikes...Most powerful brake I have ever felt and I would love to get a pair. But still, I would run my older versions on any bike I have without hesitation - and the price is right.

I've got a few days on the Hayes Stroker Aces now and am pretty impressed. I was hesitant to go back to Hayes after the last few years of crap they've put out, but they've hit the target with this one. Gobs of power and excellent modulation. They were finicky with regards to lever position for the first few rides but once the pads bedded in they have been consistent. And that's with big steep descents at Sunpeaks. One thing to remember, the pads need to be bedded in gently. It's not like other brakes where you can just hammer them for a few stops until you can stoppie then head out. The pads will glaze very easily when new so it's best to head up to a long gentle descent and bed them in easily until the power comes on.

I've heard the Saints are likely the best brakeset out there, and there's deals to be had if you look online. Initial reports said the pads were stupid expensive, like around $70 but I see online they can be found at the normal ~$25 range.

Iridemtb said:

I will get hope if you can get me a HUGE DISCOUNT!!!!!!!

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Which ones?

I've always been happy with my Maguras. I have Gustavs and Louise, both have been trouble free and work great. I like the feel a lot better than Avid brakes. I haven't tried the Elixirs yet though.

davec113 said:

I've always been happy with my Maguras. I have Gustavs and Louise, both have been trouble free and work great. I like the feel a lot better than Avid brakes. I haven't tried the Elixirs yet though.

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when you first got the gustavs, did they rub, mine (havent been ridden yet) rub alot, and i can put an index card between the pads and disc and stop the rubbing, but once i pull it in, it re-adjusts to the disc? sorry for thread jack

demo 9 said:

when you first got the gustavs, did they rub, mine (havent been ridden yet) rub alot, and i can put an index card between the pads and disc and stop the rubbing, but once i pull it in, it re-adjusts to the disc? sorry for thread jack

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They won't rub at all after you ride them the 1st time. If they do, face your brake tabs. Even though the caliper floats, the caliper holder still needs to be aligned with the rotor correctly. Gustavs are awesome, they last forever, and Magura CS has been the best. They will always take care of you unless you use any other brake fluid besides Magura Blood.

I loved the lever on my gustavs. The feel was nice but much better with goodridge hoses. If they lost some weight I'd still be on them.

Your light enough - just get some juicy fives.