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A little lower, lower, lower.....

BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
I'm looking for a replacement frame for my '04 Cannondale Chase. Obviously any Cannondale that is 5 years old is WAY past the average lifespan of any Cracknfail especially something being abused like the Chase. I've grown very fond of the bike and like all of it's geometry although I can't seem to find anything else with similar specs.

I want a 22.3-22.8tt,
11.7ish bb height,
derailleur ready
alloy or steel
sub 4.7lbs
chainstays should be 16.7 or less
ISCG tabs
Designed for a 80-100mm fork
26" disc specific

I'm mainly looking at TT, BB and weight. My chase is light and low. Actually all my bikes are low. My 10" travel DH bike is 13.9, my Niner and LS are low but can't recall numbers right now.

Any ideas?
 

BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
have you ridden any other dj hardtails? i just think that bb is a bit low.. higher bb has more "pop" and easy to manual
Yes. I've ridden a few STPs(I actually sell them so when not riding my friends and such I test ride them at the shop), an Astrix Union, Atomlab Trailking, DMR Trailstar, Cove Stiffer FR.

I do agree that the bottom bracket can be at a times a bit less poppy than a slightly higher BB. However, I have no issue hopping up on benches and the likes when I go out urban riding.

I should mention I have checked out the Geo listing thread on here before anyone helckles me thinking that I didn't.

-Kevin
 

Beast

Turbo Monkey
May 23, 2002
1,579
0
Where the riding is good
For what it's worth, your old chase frame has whacky geometry. 16.7 inch stays? 11.7 inch bb? Subtract 2 from the first and add at least 1/2 to the second and now you're talking. Good luck finding a clone of your old bike.

You should borrow a friends bike with modern geometry, and really ride it for a week. I mean really ride it. None of this parking lot/hopping up curbs business. Meanwhile, don't touch your chase.

I bet you change your mind about the geo you want.

Hey Kevin, have you checked out the new Scott Voltage? I think the geo is spot on and you have 385mm to 395mm chainstays with SS or gears.
If by "spot on" you mean a bb that sits full inch higher than what he's requesting . . .
 
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BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
For what it's worth, your old chase frame has whacky geometry. 16.7 inch stays? 11.7 inch bb? Subtract 2 from the first and add at least 1/2 to the second and now you're talking. Good luck finding a clone of your old bike.

You should borrow a friends bike with modern geometry, and really ride it for a week. I mean really ride it. None of this parking lot/hopping up curbs business. Meanwhile, don't touch your chase.

I bet you change your mind about the geo you want.



If by "spot on" you mean a bb that sits full inch higher than what he's requesting . . .
I realize that my chainstays are a bit long and that's why I gave a range in what I'm looking for to be shorter than 16.7 but in all reality they really aren't too bad. I know I also won't get the exact 11.7 BB height, but I would like to get something with very similar geometry as it works really well for slalom, pump tracks such which is where the bike gets used most anyway.

So far the P3 has similar 11.85 BB height, and a short 15.5 chainstay except that the top tube length is 23.4" Wow! I'll see if they are offering those in frames only.

I'm going to be spending some more time in the next few days on a couple other bikes, mainly atomlab and see how that works out.

Thanks for the help so far! Keep it coming.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin

SPECIALIZED P3

Top Tube Length (Horizontal) 595mm (23.42 in.)

Top Tube Length (Actual) 579mm (22.79 in.)
 
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sittingduck

Turbo Monkey
Jun 22, 2007
1,958
2
Oregon
NS Majesty! 15" stays, 22.5" top tube. Most comfortable 26 I've ever ridden. BB is a bit higher than you're used to, but not real high. Mine has a rigid fork, so it's pretty low. Suspension will probably put it a little over 12".
 

Paulyd

Monkey
May 15, 2007
255
0
Great White North.
Banshee Amp? a 100mm travel fork gives you a 69.5 head angle, a 12.4 bb, and the chainstays are slammed at 400mm. you've ridden all these bikes, and didnt like a single one? i find that hard to believe.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
have you ridden any other dj hardtails? i just think that bb is a bit low.. higher bb has more "pop" and easy to manual
My p.1 frame has an 11 inch bottom bracket with schwalbe tabletop tires and an 80mm gold label.


It punches other frames in the pussy. Try it sometime. Crazy stable in the air and no more difficult to manual than any other frame (no really......even a buddy who rides an atomlab trailking liked it :D)
 
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BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
Banshee Amp? a 100mm travel fork gives you a 69.5 head angle, a 12.4 bb, and the chainstays are slammed at 400mm. you've ridden all these bikes, and didnt like a single one? i find that hard to believe.
Why is that hard to believe. Each one has it's benefits but as a whole I haven't felt comfortable enough to buy one. Some of the frames made me feel like my butt was pointed straight up in the air, others felt heavy and sluggish, some felt twitchy.

I like the nimblness of the Atomlab Trailking frame and the smooth stable feel of the STP. The DMR Trailstar was my main DJ bike for a while but didn't feel so great jumping. Foes Predator was going to be the bike I bought but a few trips down the slalom course had me thinking otherwise.

NS Majesty! 15" stays, 22.5" top tube. Most comfortable 26 I've ever ridden. BB is a bit higher than you're used to, but not real high. Mine has a rigid fork, so it's pretty low. Suspension will probably put it a little over 12".
Looks good, but it seems to be lacking a derailleur hanger and appears to be 14mm as well, although I either suck at navigating NS' site or they didn't post that info.

THe Jackal looked pretty nice but the BB is a bit high.
So many company are going to singlespeed specific and it's quite frustrating.

-Kevin
 

opjones

Monkey
Aug 17, 2006
678
0
Detroit
My p.1 frame has an 11 inch bottom bracket with schwalbe tabletop tires and an 80mm gold label.


It punches other frames in the pussy. Try it sometime. Crazy stable in the air and no more difficult to manual than any other frame (no really......even a buddy who rides an atomlab trailking liked it :D)
That is one thing i miss about coming from my P.3, the stability that comes with a low rider.
 

Paulyd

Monkey
May 15, 2007
255
0
Great White North.
Why is that hard to believe. Each one has it's benefits but as a whole I haven't felt comfortable enough to buy one. Some of the frames made me feel like my butt was pointed straight up in the air, others felt heavy and sluggish, some felt twitchy.

I like the nimblness of the Atomlab Trailking frame and the smooth stable feel of the STP. The DMR Trailstar was my main DJ bike for a while but didn't feel so great jumping. Foes Predator was going to be the bike I bought but a few trips down the slalom course had me thinking otherwise.



Looks good, but it seems to be lacking a derailleur hanger and appears to be 14mm as well, although I either suck at navigating NS' site or they didn't post that info.

THe Jackal looked pretty nice but the BB is a bit high.
So many company are going to singlespeed specific and it's quite frustrating.

-Kevin
i guess it really isn't hard to believe, but it isnt something i have really heard people actually want


I have an STP. I find the bb too low. especially for the fact that i dont ride many dj's. So i'm getting myself a banshee amp. but my next frame is probs going to be a bmw big ben. that thing has sick geo imo.
 

opjones

Monkey
Aug 17, 2006
678
0
Detroit
Yeah I don't get this whole 12+ bb thing.

Those bikes ride like shlt unless you're bunny hopping at 2mph.........and that's gay so who cares. :D
I find it easier to move around in tighter places, e.i. park & tech jumps, but I'm not 100% convinced on it yet, I'm giving some more time.
 

kidwoo

Artisanal Tweet Curator
I find it easier to move around in tighter places, e.i. park & tech jumps, but I'm not 100% convinced on it yet, I'm giving some more time.
3 out of 3 people prefered my bike over their own at a pump track session 5 days ago. True story. Doesn't get much tighter or tech than tiny little multiple direction changes on a pump track.

I'm not really a nazi about it or anything. I don't care that much because I'm good to go with what I'm riding. But I've never ridden a bike with a higher bb that I actually preferred.......usually because of the higher stance over the bike just never felt like a more suitable position in anything.
 

basikbiker

Monkey
Jun 15, 2006
619
0
Northern Cali
My p.1 frame has an 11 inch bottom bracket with schwalbe tabletop tires and an 80mm gold label.


It punches other frames in the pussy. Try it sometime. Crazy stable in the air and no more difficult to manual than any other frame (no really......even a buddy who rides an atomlab trailking liked it :D)
i used to ride a p1cromo with dual 24's and a lowered Dj to 80mm and it was a fun bike no doubt and i didnt have issues jumping. in fact i sold my setup to a friend of mine with the same frame and he likes it as well. i just like higher bb, 0-15mm bb drop max. i feel it rides a little snappier and easier is all. currently rockin an 09 riot 22" and lowered argyle409 to 80mm and it rippps hard
 

poekie

Chimp
Mar 21, 2009
59
0
is a blk mrkt frame nothing for you?

reasonably low bb (12.25 with an 80mm fox, I run mine either with a contraband fork or a 70mm fox); 22.5" tt option; proven geometry for pumptracks/ trails/a little 4x..

as for low bb's not being responsive, IMO that's only problematic when doing really fast bunnyhopped spins like flat 3's, for slow 3's on trails/park (and riding in general) I'd prefer a slightly lower bb.
 

BmxConvert

Monkey
Aug 6, 2007
715
0
Longview, Washington
is a blk mrkt frame nothing for you?

reasonably low bb (12.25 with an 80mm fox, I run mine either with a contraband fork or a 70mm fox); 22.5" tt option; proven geometry for pumptracks/ trails/a little 4x..

as for low bb's not being responsive, IMO that's only problematic when doing really fast bunnyhopped spins like flat 3's, for slow 3's on trails/park (and riding in general) I'd prefer a slightly lower bb.
A 12.25bb is a half inch change in bottom bracket height, small for some but a big deal to me. I also don't want to deal with getting set up as a dealer to get a BLK MRKT for myself as I really won't sell one through my shop even if I had one on the floor. I seem to recal the frame being a little weighty too.

The closest appealing geometry to me is the DSS.
16" chainstays
12" bottom bracket height
69* headangle
The tt sits longer at 23.5, but I can drop back to my 50mm stem now.
4.0lbs and I'll be picking it up slightly used from a friend for $200 with a Thomson post.

Funny thing about the Arrow DSS is that the rear end is identical to the Cove Stiffy FR. We had the two side by side and the Arrow is just a trimmed down Stiffy rear end. Oh well. It's a fun peppy little bike.

I think I'm going to order up a 80mm Fox 831's for it and take the Reba off my Chase and put it on the Foes Prolight XC for my girlfriend.

Chase pretty close to how it sits now and a few of my micro pumptrack.





-Kevin