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new yeti proto pics

RUFUS

e-douche of the year
Dec 1, 2006
3,480
1
Denver, CO
It's the 303-W, W for wheelpath. There is a single rail right in front of the rear wheel. Dave Ziegman has been riding it all season at all of the MSC races as well as a few others.

It is an interesting design and placement of the rail. On really muddy tracks it is a possibility to have mud and dirt pack up in there but that is speculation. The single rail on my 303R has been great and sheds dirt and mud effectively.

This design looks so much better than the last one. Not sure if it will be produced or not. Still strictly in test phase only right now.

http://yeticycles.com/#/videovault/

Check the MSC race videos for Dave riding the W.
 
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RUFUS

e-douche of the year
Dec 1, 2006
3,480
1
Denver, CO
Sup Rufus! I hope they pull the trigger on that beast! I'll pester Bubba about it when he comes home to slaughter the local CX scene.
I think I have pestered him enough so have at it:thumb:

I don't need another Yeti DH bike...oh wait, yes I do.:D:D:D
 

HaveFaith

Monkey
Mar 11, 2006
338
0
Interesting that they would choose to have a shortening wheelbase with the forward wheelpath. Especially with the infinite options...Pretty much goes against most conventional wisdom. Maybe due to chaingrowth issues...
 

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
Interesting that they would choose to have a shortening wheelbase with the forward wheelpath. Especially with the infinite options...Pretty much goes against most conventional wisdom. Maybe due to chaingrowth issues...
if you think about what "conventional wisdom" literally means, you start to see its flaws.

what it means, literally, is that something is wise because it's been done that way as a matter of practice. "convention" means practice, so "conventional wisdom" means the wisdom arising from the practice.

therefore "conventional wisdom" is about things staying the same, and not trying untested things.

sometimes a tried-and-true technique can be improved merely by changing to something that everyone has doubted. most of the great revolutionary ideas in science came about by flying in the face of convention. remember, at one point, people believed that the universe revolved around the Earth, and that the Earth was flat.

ultimately what matters in a new DH suspension design is whether the new design lets a few riders move faster over the same terrain. don't forget that Outland patented the VPP design with Intense a long time before anyone thought it would be useful. the patent sat dormant for a good while before Santa Cruz thought of using it.
 

djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
Interesting that they would choose to have a shortening wheelbase with the forward wheelpath. Especially with the infinite options...Pretty much goes against most conventional wisdom. Maybe due to chaingrowth issues...
It looks like there's pivot between the swingarm and rail car assembly. The wheelbase should lengthen at least in the initial part of it's travel.
 

mr2fastna

Chimp
Aug 5, 2007
9
0
Interesting that they would choose to have a shortening wheelbase with the forward wheelpath. Especially with the infinite options...Pretty much goes against most conventional wisdom. Maybe due to chaingrowth issues...
I think you'll find that the wheelpath is almost completely vertical. I'd buy one...:thumb:
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
It looks like there's pivot between the swingarm and rail car assembly. The wheelbase should lengthen at least in the initial part of it's travel.

Without a pivot between the car and the rear triangle...the suspension could not move. But the initial travel shortens the wheelbase...then moves toward vertical.

If you look at the shock link, and how it moves, it is pretty easy to see what will happen as the suspension is loaded.
At first, the link/rear pivot swings mostly forward...resulting in a 'near single pivot' axle path with the pivot being the car/rear pivot ie very low. At this early point in the travel, the car essentially does not move. This results in your typical low single pivot axle path...forward.

As the link moves past 45* and toward 90* or rotation (looks like it only ever reaches ~75*), the movement at the swingarm mount becomes more vertical. Thus the entire swingarm moves more vertical and so does the car.
No where in the (functional) travel does the swing arm or axle move rearward, it is always moving forward...just at a decreasing rate as it moves further into the travel.
 
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djjohnr

Turbo Monkey
Apr 21, 2002
3,001
1,693
Northern California
Without a pivot between the car and the rear triangle...the suspension could not move. But the initial travel shortens the wheelbase...then moves toward vertical.
That pivot is above the horizontal plane of the wheelbase - it HAS to move rearward until the pivot intersects that plane.
 

davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
...
No where in the (functional) travel does the swing arm or axle move rearward...

You are correct, and I thought of writing a bunch more to elaborate on that point. I thought the above would be enough to address issue with the people who wanted to nit-pick, obviously it was not.

The reality is that 'rearward' movement of the axle as you said would be between the absolute zero sag point (a static point that the bike is never ridden in and might sag out of under its own weight), and the point of intersection of a horizontal line through the pivot point. Considering that this horizontal line is approx 1" above the axle height, and the tangent of the axle path is about 1* off of vertical at that point....the net rearward movement for that top inch of travel is about 0.5mm.



I am certainly not going to say that the bike rides one way or another or that there is a 'best' way to design a DH bike. Many different suspension designs, wheel rates, and axle paths have validity and are prefered by different people...

So, not that it matters, but this bike has neither a rearward nor vertical axle path by typical definitions (ie not bike biz marketing BS).
 
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MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
I'm all for companies experimenting to find the 'ultimate' bike. I also know that not all DH courses are equal in terms of roughness, steepness, jumps etc. But I still don't understand the need some brands feel to continually batter out prototypes and sometimes new production models, when people are still buying the old one. Yeti with the 303, 303-R and now this. Intense with the Socom, 951 and M6 (although maybe less so as the Socom and M6 are pretty far removed). Maybe they just like to offer a choice to appeal to more riders, but it doesn't give me much confidence that *they* have much confidence in their designs if they overhaul them every year or 6 months.

Not a rant, just saying.
 

ekripper

Chimp
Jul 2, 2005
75
0
Salt Lake City, Utah
I'm all for companies experimenting to find the 'ultimate' bike. I also know that not all DH courses are equal in terms of roughness, steepness, jumps etc. But I still don't understand the need some brands feel to continually batter out prototypes and sometimes new production models, when people are still buying the old one. Yeti with the 303, 303-R and now this. Intense with the Socom, 951 and M6 (although maybe less so as the Socom and M6 are pretty far removed). Maybe they just like to offer a choice to appeal to more riders, but it doesn't give me much confidence that *they* have much confidence in their designs if they overhaul them every year or 6 months.

Not a rant, just saying.
As soon as they stop doing this they go away. The DH crowd is always after something new and different. I believe it truly drives sales numbers. As soon as you stop innovating and coming up with new product, sales tend to dry up and go to the competition. I've been in sales my whole life and no matter what the product is this tends to be the way. Just my opinion.
 

joelsman

Turbo Monkey
Feb 1, 2002
1,369
0
B'ham
as long as people keep trying new things, weather they are better or not, it is good. progression has lots of miss steps, not saying this is one, but....

I think it would be cool if the rail was tilted rearward as the car goes up, giving a bit of rearward wheel path for part of the cycle. would end up closer to vpp maybe?
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
As soon as they stop doing this they go away. The DH crowd is always after something new and different. I believe it truly drives sales numbers. As soon as you stop innovating and coming up with new product, sales tend to dry up and go to the competition. I've been in sales my whole life and no matter what the product is this tends to be the way. Just my opinion.
I agree to some extent. I think what he was trying to say though is that these companies barely let their product reach puberty, let alone maturity. There's a fine line to be walked between "innovative", and cannablizing your own product. Intense (not to start a war here) is a prime example. I've seen a few riders who dropped cash on an M6 because the socom sucked, only to have the 951 released shortly after. To be fair and avoid picking on one company, Santa Cruz did this with their Blur LT, followed up by the Blur LT carbon for only $400 more just a short year later. Are they giving people options and gaining new customers, or training them to wait for the next best thing? I think the companies that nail their product from the release and let them run for a couple years before making changes are playing a smarter game.
 

ekripper

Chimp
Jul 2, 2005
75
0
Salt Lake City, Utah
I don't disagree with that. I would be surprised to see this Yeti out in the near future. I'm one of those who bought a 303r so I totally understand what you're saying. I also bought a 951 a couple of months back and I understand what you're saying about Intense as well, they seem to be the worst at doing this. lol They can pretty much count on idiots like me always wanting what ever is new and cool even though I can't possibly use it to it's full potential. Maybe there's enough out there like me that encourage this behavior by always buying the new stuff.
 

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
0
I'm all for companies experimenting to find the 'ultimate' bike. I also know that not all DH courses are equal in terms of roughness, steepness, jumps etc. But I still don't understand the need some brands feel to continually batter out prototypes and sometimes new production models, when people are still buying the old one. Yeti with the 303, 303-R and now this. Intense with the Socom, 951 and M6 (although maybe less so as the Socom and M6 are pretty far removed). Maybe they just like to offer a choice to appeal to more riders, but it doesn't give me much confidence that *they* have much confidence in their designs if they overhaul them every year or 6 months.

Not a rant, just saying.
I hear you but I also think Yeti have a good record of doing interesting things that fly contrary to the flock. I've been riding MTBs since 1990. I've ridden all sorts of great designs, and in July 2008 I got a 575 for my trail bike. I was skeptical of a bike that uses a carbon flex point as a pivot, I expected it to ride like crap and skip around in choppy terrain. I've owned some really solid designs (Turner, Knolly) and I have to say the 575 rides incredibly well for a bike that has a flex point instead of a circumferential pivot at the back end. I can't even tell the difference in ride quality from the TNT design Turner or the FSR/Horst Turner bikes I've owned.

I don't think Yeti are just making stuff up to be "different." I think they're looking for new ways to do something better.

I will also say that a good rider can learn to ride well on most anything. There's a pretty huge difference between the singlepivot of an Orange 224 and the vpp design of the SCB V-10, and Steve Peat seems to be getting on fine with the V-10.
 

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
I agree to some extent. I think what he was trying to say though is that these companies barely let their product reach puberty, let alone maturity. There's a fine line to be walked between "innovative", and cannablizing your own product.
Yeah that's pretty much what I mean, cheers. I don't think it's the case that if you don't make a new from the ground up model every year you will disappear. I'd personally rather see a design tested to it's limits in the R+D stage, then refined over several years in response to real world feedback, new technologies etc. The real 'classic' bikes IMO have done this. The Sunday ran for 5 years, the V-10 has been going for 6 maybe? The Glory as well, it may have different tubing for 2010 but the overall layout has remained very similar. To me this shows the company has more confidence in their original design.

Let's face it, if a bike is good, word gets around. People try out their mates bikes or ask for shot on random guys bikes at races. If a lot of people are seen to be getting on well with a certain bike, that, in my experience, is more important than a bare metal prototype posted online to bikes sales.
 

- seb

Turbo Monkey
Apr 10, 2002
2,924
1
UK
Ugly, imho. I know that's not the be-all and end-all. But it's all I have to say :)