I wanna know if anyone had some time on the 2010 Demo and how it behaves compared to the 2009 Demo, or other frames. Is the BB too low? Does the pedals clip the rocks often? Difference in suspension? Suppelness in the small hits? I have the 2009 and want to buy the 2010 but i don't think the geometry is really ok for average Joe and the BB is crazy low. Thanks!
2010 DEMO 8 BB height
- Thread starter istratetm
- Start date
I'll be hanging on to my 2008 Demo frame for these reasons. Other then the BB the numbers seem pretty much the same......HA anyways. I've measured my Demo's BB at 14.3, and I hit my pedals enough as it is. 13.5 would not be good for me.
I think the new Fox RC4 would be a good upgrade other the DHX-5, but you could always keep your 09 and put a CCDB on it.
I think the new Fox RC4 would be a good upgrade other the DHX-5, but you could always keep your 09 and put a CCDB on it.
It's a bike designed by a guy who doesn't win races by pedaling.
If you want a bike designed to win races at the highest level, buy the Demo and suck up your crappy style moments.
If you want an expensive bike designed for the 'Average Joe' then buy a Giant Glory.
If you want a bike designed to win races at the highest level, buy the Demo and suck up your crappy style moments.
If you want an expensive bike designed for the 'Average Joe' then buy a Giant Glory.
I ride with two guys who picked up 2010 Demos two weeks ago. One of them measured the bb height @ 13.25. Both have said that the bike rails corners but have also mentioned that they have to be REALLY aware of where their pedals are/bb is. Also, the new bikes are much lighter than previous models and that light weight (thinner tubes) combined with the low bb height meant two pretty big dents in one down tube.
I can't speak to the suspension characteristics, but hope that helped.
I can't speak to the suspension characteristics, but hope that helped.
But the Head Angle?!?!? it's too steeeeeep! Think about the children!!!!!!!
but is it really?! this may be so on the interwebs, but what about on the mountain? any word from people who have actual experience with the 2010 and the 2008 &/or 2009s?
well i smash my pedals everywhere on my Revolt's 13.78" BB
well that's clearly because you're getting bucked off the bike all the time and it's bouncing around on the ground isn't it?!?!
but seriously... wouldn't the spring rate and damping forces particular to a bike affect its attitude as it moves through its travel? (in other words, does it ride high or low in it's travel) That's why I'm asking for back to back comparisons of the 2010 against older versions... another bike's bb height might not be applicable for reasons mentionned earlier. Maybe I'm a newb and I know nothing, and I've been reading too much ridemonkey banter on the issue....
The new revision doesn't have the 'shuttle' anymore... you used to be able to flip it around to get the high or low BB setting. I'm currently on a '09 demo 7 set up with a fox 40 and sunline headset. The new bike is definetely lower, but it feels better to me. You have to be aware of your pedals, but you should be aware of them anyways if you're pushing the limits on DH.
i also had the demo 7 size small last year wich was lower. the bike didn't really like high speed. the shorter shock was noticeble. with the demo 8(medium, big difference) that i had this season i am in love. i ran a little more sag, tuned a Rocco so the rear wheel is glued to the ground.
havin' 35% sag on a 367mm high BB(static) was a little bit of a problem when entering rock gardens at high speed. off camber was also tricky.
that is why i wonder if 342 mm BB hight isn't too low.
I think u have to go with 20% sag so the bike sits high, and the forks raised to the max, in order to achieve clearence.
But i do think that the new bike corners like no other.
havin' 35% sag on a 367mm high BB(static) was a little bit of a problem when entering rock gardens at high speed. off camber was also tricky.
that is why i wonder if 342 mm BB hight isn't too low.
I think u have to go with 20% sag so the bike sits high, and the forks raised to the max, in order to achieve clearence.
But i do think that the new bike corners like no other.
I have more travell and not much higher(or maybe lower but around that mark) bb than the 367 while my shock dives more than your roco (dhx air) and I'm pretty sure I have no problem with entering rockgardens at high speed. Also it's easier not to clip rocks at high speed but I'm no pro so I may be wrong
Thats all fine and dandy. After a WC season like last year its obvious that you need to be able to pedal your bike. The same is true within the lower ranks of racing around the world. DH is still bicycle racing. If you want to go fast you need to pedal. If the pedals hit the ground when you pedal you're in trouble. For this reason I wouldn't buy a DH bike with a BB below 14"s, because even then your sagged BB is likely in the 12 inch range. I hope Specialized makes a change within a couple years.
Your first 3 sentences are contradicted by your last 3.
Fact of the matter is, the fastest guys in the world pedal a ton, and Hill in particular is known for squeezing in pedal strokes between corners. If they couldn't pedal the bikes or keep the pedals from scraping everywhere they wouldn't keep asking for the bikes to get lower. the guys with the skills to ride at those speeds have no problem being aware of where their bb and pedals are in relation to objects on the trail, much like most average riders eventually figure out where the rear wheel is when cornering and what it will hit even though they can't see it. also, the need to pedal in inconvenient sections is negated by carrying speed. You wont find Peaty pedaling through the rocks, but you can rest assured a whole bunch of the am class will get on the brakes too hard and then bash their pedals into the ground trying to get back up to speed. a lot of the fastest pros also run their suspension a lot stiffer than you might think so they tend not to wallow deep in the travel.
I say the lower the better but 13-14" will be too low for some people, in which case its not the right tool for the job. buy something else, there are plenty of options these days. no point getting hung up on having WC racer geometry if that's not the way you plan to ride. but there is something to be said knowing you will never be able to 'outride' your bike.
*remember when the Sunday came out several years ago with a 14+" bb and all the internerds declared it too low? those same guys all probably ride bikes as low or lower now w/out complaint.
Last edited:
Not sure how I contradicted myself? I'm bacically saying you need to pedal, and that the bike is too low. Remember we aren't talking about a low Volume bike. This is likely one of the higher volume DH bikes on the market, and A huge percentage of the owners are average riders. Specialized basically brought to market their WC team Geometry. Was this a good choice???? Was it necessary??? The prevoius Demo allready had a very low CG, a long wheelbase, low stand over, and slack HA.
I like to think I'm fairly quick. I'm not stupid, I know what it takes to ride fast. Where do you draw the line on BB height though????
I like all the other changes to the bike.......they're subtle but seem to be inteligent.
I like to think I'm fairly quick. I'm not stupid, I know what it takes to ride fast. Where do you draw the line on BB height though????
I like all the other changes to the bike.......they're subtle but seem to be inteligent.
"After a WC season like last year its obvious that you need to be able to pedal your bike. . . . If you want to go fast you need to pedal. . . . For this reason I wouldn't buy a DH bike with a BB below 14"s"
what bike had more than 10 podium finishes and won the overall, surely not the one too low to pedal right?
Gee's and Fabien's bikes aren't any higher and they turn the pedal over once in a while.
kind of a moot point anyway, as most of those guy will tell you its not pedaling you have to worry about as much with the low bb, it's hitting your inside or lowest foot on rocks on the outside of ruts and smashing your feet while coasting or cornering in the rough or across off camber sections. but that, too, is an acquired skill.
Last edited:
Right but the 10 thousand other people buying the frame aren't Sam< Brendan, Gee or Fabian. No doubt it works well for them, especially on the real DH courses, and because they are "kick ass" they can adapt to the tracks on those bikes.
I mean seriously we are basically talking about 13" even BB's on DH bikes that run over 2"s of sag.
To sum up all my other posts in one statement..........I wish Specialized left their "team Geo" for the Team and brought to market something with a reasonable ride height.
cheers
If you want outdated Geo, that worked for the pros in 2004, or whenever you (or whoever specs the bikes you buy) have decided is acceptable, go dig it out.
Your concept of 'acceptable ride height' is so nebulous that it is laughable.
Me - I'll take as close as i can get, and ride it as close to my bleeding adge as i can. If that means that it punishes me for braking too early and too much, then so be it.
You don't buy a Valentino Rossi replica and then complain that it doesn't make a good commuter.
Where can you buy a Rossi replica??? I agree with this post. When a consumer buys a bike designed to suit the personal preferences of a premier racer, they are (knowingly or not) purchasing a product thats design is dictated by the peculiarities of a top level competitive athlete. That's assuming the manufacturer has not brought the geometry back towards what suits the average (beginner) rider better. I don't know if I would be faster with WC-type geometry. I also don't know if I'd want to invest the build time and money to try it out.
Super valid points. I think that as the consumer you should be looking into what you think you need/want/like. There is no room for complaining about the geo of a frame with all the options available these days.
Actually, they are. As per Dirt and Decline who checked out the 2008 bikes of the Athertons and Yeti, all had static BBs of 14.2-14.5". And if they run stiffer setups their dynamic BBs are higher than the average Joe's too.
Team bikes have been run with even lower BBs. I've measured them side by side with production bikes.
There's a guy I know over here in the UK who now owns one of Brendan's 'old' demos. It has a 12.5" static BB height!!! He smacks his pedals a lot!
The newer supremes for Athertons? I've seen the article about their 09 protos and they never mentioned it. Also everyone is getting lower with every year if you haven't noticed it. Someone must like it.
And about the whole too low bb - just learn to pedal and be aware where your pedals are. It was the same babble a few years ago and some people mashed their pedals but we all learned to cope with that so why can't we now?
if you want to benefit from this kind of geometry you have to be a very skilled rider.
this frame doesn't alow much sag so this will not be a plough machine.
this geometry narrows down the number of potential buyers for specialized.
after all i think we must addapt because this is the trend but i would like to hear someone who has one or has ridden one.
this frame doesn't alow much sag so this will not be a plough machine.
this geometry narrows down the number of potential buyers for specialized.
after all i think we must addapt because this is the trend but i would like to hear someone who has one or has ridden one.
ow!!
12.5" is pretty low... but i think that your friend had to ride carefully with his pedals but i bet that demo is stable and can rail berms like hell 
What is all this bullshyte about having to be a WC level rider to ride a bike thats a little lower and/or slacker than what people are used to? In general, I think people should STFU unless they can qualify some of these asinine statements regarding who is qualified to ride a bike and how it rides with a statement that starts with "I rode xxx bike with xxx geometry...." When do you decide that speculation/fantasy = reality? Give me a f'in break.
This is kind of where I'm at. I want to buy a Demo. I've been riding Specialized bikes for 10 years, for no other reason than I was able to afford them at the time of my initial purchase. My trail bike is an Enduro and I love it. I've ridden Demo's in the past, and there's something in the way they handle that I find familiar and that I like. I think I've developed my riding style to suit a Horst Link suspension system. So, I want to stay in the Specialized family for my DH bike. By most accounts, the Demo has been a rippin' bike, so it's a fairly good strategy I think. I've looked at the Giant, and I'm thinking of the Trek, but I just like the feel of the Demo.
So I start reading the reviews, and I read that the BB height on the 2010 Demo is low. That gets me thinking... is it too low? I currently ride a 2005 A-line, and I don't really clip my pedals too often, but back when I had a 2001 Enduro, I used to clip my pedals all over the place, so I know how annoying it can be. Of course this is a DH bike, and not a trail bike, so I say to myself maybe it's not too bad. But... if I can score an 08 or 09 Demo, I'd still get a "critically acclaimed" bike without the worry of having a low bb. But my local dealers are out. The Montreal based dealers I've called are out of them too (in my size). Specialized Canada is out of them too. I could go used, there are some nice ones out there, but I'm weary of purchasing on-line sight unseen. These are downhill bikes after all, they take a beating, unlike some XC bikes out there. I'm in Ottawa, a 2 hour drive to Montreal, and 4 hours to Toronto... driving out to look at a bike isn't an insurmountable obstacle, I guess it depends on what's available at the time I'm ready to buy.
All this to say, if Specialized hadn't dropped the bb height so low, I wouldn't even hesitate to buy a new one. As it stands now, I'm mulling it over quite a bit. I think I can adapt my style and be more aware of my pedals. I'm not a super hucker so I'm not too worried about burying my pedals and downtube into the ground... but still, I find it unfortunate that Specialized messed with what was a pretty good design. But that's just me.
Like I said before, I'm contemplating the Giant and the Trek. I'm shopping with a price-point in mind ($4000k), and other bikes don't really hit that mark (and are available locally). I'm also weary of virtual pivot link bikes caus' I've heard they don't behave the same way Horst Link bikes do, and I don't feel like re-learning to ride my bike, and changing styles going back and forth between my trail bike and my DH bike. Of course I'm probably over-analyzing this, but four grand is a lot of money, and this wouldn't be an issue if Specialized hadn't changed the height of their bb...
So... I'll conclude this run-on post with a question... if I got the shop to swap out the Boxxer for some 888's and ran the stanchions at max height in the crowns, would that raise the bb a noticeable amount?
What Zombies and Gridds have written is correct.
A team issue Demo (or Brendans at least) int standard. With some 2010 boxxers dropped right through on the crown and Minions fitted the BB stands at 12.6 from floor to centre od the BB axle.
The tope tube is also longer and the back end i think.. We did spend a good hour comparing it with a production bike.
Having come from bikes with Low BB's previously i liked the drop even more. Bike turns mint and is crazy stable.
On flatter turns you feel the front pushing but you soon learn to weight the front more in these situations.
It may not be everyones cup of tea but if it is fit for purpose then why not! Personally i hate pedally tracks so that int an issue. Much of my times is spent in Wlaes riding on tracks built by the Athertons so as you would imagen pedalig never really comes into it that oftten.
I think such extreme geo is a bad thing for someone new to the sport but to someone who has been riding and racing for many years that knows how to use it surely it is a good thing!
A team issue Demo (or Brendans at least) int standard. With some 2010 boxxers dropped right through on the crown and Minions fitted the BB stands at 12.6 from floor to centre od the BB axle.
The tope tube is also longer and the back end i think.. We did spend a good hour comparing it with a production bike.
Having come from bikes with Low BB's previously i liked the drop even more. Bike turns mint and is crazy stable.
On flatter turns you feel the front pushing but you soon learn to weight the front more in these situations.
It may not be everyones cup of tea but if it is fit for purpose then why not! Personally i hate pedally tracks so that int an issue. Much of my times is spent in Wlaes riding on tracks built by the Athertons so as you would imagen pedalig never really comes into it that oftten.
I think such extreme geo is a bad thing for someone new to the sport but to someone who has been riding and racing for many years that knows how to use it surely it is a good thing!
Those of you concerned about the BB on the Demo 8 being too low could just buy a Demo 7, no? Pull the travel reducer, stick on a dual crown fork with an internal reducer headset and you're good to go...
yeah Demo 7 is always an option but there is a big difference on how the suspension works with 2.5 stroke instead of 2.75.
I know it doesn't seem much but it is obvious while riding.
I hope you didn't think that was what i was implying. obviously lower bikes are not going to be good for everyone, but i'm very much of the opinion that the majority of DH riders can learn to ride these bikes w/out a tremendous amount of trouble. but i do agree that it is total BS when people write things like 'it's too low to pedal' or 'my trails are too rocky for that bike.' nonsense, those statements are proven to the contrary week in and week out on the WC circuit as well as countless local mountains both by the best guys in the world and average joes alike, whether they ever race or not.
yes, Specialized probably lost some customers but they definitely gained a few new ones who have otherwise snubbed the Demo for years.
same BS that got written about the Sunday back in the day, and by todays standards that bike is pretty average. riders adapted
I 100% agree with you. You and I have been on almost the same bikes since the Orange days, riding the same terrain...I have no issues with a low BB. This is an area where you would think it would be a hinderance, but I want something lower. I even had my sunday dropped to 13.5" One of the reasons I'm actually considering the Demo. I have no issues with pedaling around here. I can see it taking some people time to adjust...but the pros trump the cons in my book at least. It was probably a decent move for Specialized. Sure they lost few customers, but it only takes a test ride and maybe a season of having the bikes out to gain them back.
a review of the frame:
http://raceface.com/riders/?p=1598
http://raceface.com/riders/?p=1598