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Dilemma 20" or 22"

iksmudge

Monkey
Nov 4, 2008
154
0
Yes that's right 22" (NOT 24")!
I've been thinking long and hard about getting back into BMX - I'm 6'3", 200 lb, quite slim and for a while now have been riding a DMR transition (24") with cruiser bars. While this is great it's too heavy/big to feel like a bmx.
I've been considering a 22" faction zeitgeist for a while but am also thinking about getting a standard 20" with a 21" frame. I see lot's of the manufacturers now offering "bigger" frames.
Also the huge choice of parts in 20" is a big attraction , though the Faction bike sure is nice.
Any toughts?
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
Yes that's right 22" (NOT 24")!
I've been thinking long and hard about getting back into BMX - I'm 6'3", 200 lb, quite slim and for a while now have been riding a DMR transition (24") with cruiser bars. While this is great it's too heavy/big to feel like a bmx.
I've been considering a 22" faction zeitgeist for a while but am also thinking about getting a standard 20" with a 21" frame. I see lot's of the manufacturers now offering "bigger" frames.
Also the huge choice of parts in 20" is a big attraction , though the Faction bike sure is nice.
Any toughts?
my impression is that most tall/big guys who are older and getting back into riding almost always prefer bigger bikes than 20"s. but then sometimes you see guys get a cruiser, ride a lot, then they're ready to get back on a 20".

as i'm the only person on here with a Faction, i would say it definitely has a bigger/roomier/stable feel, yet geo-wise it looks and rides like a big version of a 20. a young shredder would probably call it sluggish tho!

but i say try some tweaks on your DMR first. try some lower mtb bars, maybe lighter fork. and go from there.
 
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Axis

Monkey
Jun 9, 2004
471
0
I rode 24" for the last 6 years... but this summer I got a 20". I am 6' and 40 years old. You can ride a 20. Find a frame with 21" to 21.5" tt and no shorter than 13.75 stays. 14" is optimal. Look for a lower BB too like 11.5" to 11.6" With a bb that low an 8" rise bar will be plenty high. HT should be 74 or 74.5 degrees. I ride a WTP trust... great bike great geo. I am switching the frame out for an FBM Exodus 21.25" TT. Can't wait!
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
I rode 24" for the last 6 years... but this summer I got a 20". I am 6' and 40 years old. You can ride a 20. Find a frame with 21" to 21.5" tt and no shorter than 13.75 stays. 14" is optimal. Look for a lower BB too like 11.5" to 11.6" With a bb that low an 8" rise bar will be plenty high. HT should be 74 or 74.5 degrees. I ride a WTP trust... great bike great geo. I am switching the frame out for an FBM Exodus 21.25" TT. Can't wait!
yeah for sure, that is rad. you know another frame that fits what you're saying is the Deluxe XXL trail frame. these guys nailed it ... in several ways: 74 degree head angle. chainstay brakes. 11.5" bottom bracket.

those are some classic geo numbers.... a mixture of S&M HOLMES with HOFFMAN CONDOR. sounds rad.



Frame Info:
Built for going fast. Simplicity is what we're aiming for here - no wishbones, no crimps, no harsh bends on the seatstays or chainstays, no front triangle gussets, and no rear stay bridges that have been laser-cut to resemble intricate metalwork pieces: and of course, all made from proper 4130 chromoly. 4130 chromoly is the stuff we've been making BMX frames from for decades, refined and produced into a high quality tubeset and expertly welded by our preferred frame builder.

We chose lighter, slightly slimmer diameter tubing while retaining all-important strength and durability - and combined plain-gauge rear ends with double-butted front end and heat-treated bottom bracket, headtube, and dropouts. We didn't go nuts and drill holes or laser-cut slots everywhere, we kept everything sensible and designed it properly - and ended up with a durable trails machine. Proportion wise, we didn't go too low-slung - otherwise, that could look like a bicycle trials frame.

Our frames now come in three sizes - L, XL and XXL: the L comes with a 20.7-inch toptube, while the XL measures in at 21 inches, and the XXL comes in at 21.25 inches. The L and XL have 13.75-inch back ends, while the XXL has a 14-inch back end. We then chose a low 11.5 inch bottom bracket, to create a frame with a low centre of gravity and a very stable and balanced feel - which is vital when you're hitting the Bar End's Back Line at mach ten. Nobody wants a skittish high bottom bracket or a flatland-frame back end in that situation.

Likewise, we picked a traditional 74 degree head angle - something that's a little more stable than some of today's street frames which measure 75 or even 76. A steep head angle is all good when you're nose-wheeling the curb outside Lidl, but not when you're hitting big lines.

We specced small round tubes to act as neat rear-stay bridges, and then paid attention to the brake mounts. For one, they're placed on the chainstays so the brakes actually work better and they look cleaner - our lowered chainstay position combined with today's modern u-brakes create more room, so running 25:9 gearing will be no problem. We then angled the brake-lugs (at 81 degrees) and the cable stop to ensure good cable line.

The dropouts are super-light - we trimmed down the shape, slotted them for 14mm axles, and also made them 4mm thin. I wouldn't recommend using pegs on these dropouts, but who does? Since my favourite street riders (Steven Hamilton and Ian Schwartz) don't even run pegs, shedding unnecessary material here made sense. Also, instead of running angle-capped stays like every other BMX frame out there, we took a little influence from classic road bikes and dome-ended the stays - it makes them just look faster. Neat.

Stable, fast, light, durable, classic - it's all we wanted in a BMX frame.
 

iksmudge

Monkey
Nov 4, 2008
154
0
I rode 24" for the last 6 years... but this summer I got a 20". I am 6' and 40 years old. You can ride a 20. Find a frame with 21" to 21.5" tt and no shorter than 13.75 stays. 14" is optimal. Look for a lower BB too like 11.5" to 11.6" With a bb that low an 8" rise bar will be plenty high. HT should be 74 or 74.5 degrees. I ride a WTP trust... great bike great geo. I am switching the frame out for an FBM Exodus 21.25" TT. Can't wait!
That's really weird - I was looking at the WTP Trust myself. I tried one out at the shop and it didn't feel at all bad. Incidently - how high is the bb on the Trust?
Agree with the lower bb thing - not sure what the obsession is with the high bb.
Recently I see WTP (Avenue 24) and Fit have copied Sunday bikes model -C - am really attracted by that but I reckon for tall people the higher bb will mean more bend over = back pain. Strangely, why are they all going down the "built a 24 to feel like a 20" - you may as well buy a 20!

As far as I am concerned there are only two important measures - rake and reach - both governened by bb height, tt length and front end height (in itself mostly influenced by the bar height)
This is why I was attracted to the Faction - lower bb, 22" front tyre (therefore 1" higher at front) and then put some bigger bars on it (say 8.25"), tt length = 21.5 I think, so plenty of room. Though I do realise you can't compare MTB TT length with BMX TT length - the geo's are all different and also the faction may actually be too big!
Thanks all for reading.

Oh and 26" sucks!
 

iksmudge

Monkey
Nov 4, 2008
154
0
Well seeing that I just kinda got bike deal with Faction (bike is on the way) I say... Faction. :)
Yeah I know what you mean - I'm starting to lean that way as well - the price of the bike is superb for what you get, they seem to be doing good business as well with more parts to come.
Did you get the Zeitgeist or the new Amero?
Do you have any part upgrades in mind?
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
. . .
. . . the faction may actually be too big!
. . .
Oh and 26" sucks!
the faction front end is definitely not too big since you are 6'3". and even a lot of medium height riders ride 21" and 21.25" tt bmx bikes, so i think with the bigger wheels and longer back end, 21.5"tt would still feel good to them too. but everyone has different preferences so who's to say....

and as for 26", dont get carried away, newb! a lot of us are on this forum because of how rad 26" mtbmx is.

 

joelalamo45

Monkey
Jun 25, 2007
741
1
Idaho Springs, Colorado
Yeah I know what you mean - I'm starting to lean that way as well - the price of the bike is superb for what you get, they seem to be doing good business as well with more parts to come.
Did you get the Zeitgeist or the new Amero?
Do you have any part upgrades in mind?
I'm getting a Zeitgeist for now, but as soon as the Amero is out I'm getting that along with their new wheelset.
 

Axis

Monkey
Jun 9, 2004
471
0
yeah for sure, that is rad. you know another frame that fits what you're saying is the Deluxe XXL trail frame. these guys nailed it ... in several ways: 74 degree head angle. chainstay brakes. 11.5" bottom bracket.
Oh ya that frame is nice. One of the local rays employees has the xxl and it feels great. The xxl has 14"cs but the smaller sizes have 13.75" cs. I really considered this frame... getting the fbm exodus st mainly because of the price. They are heavily discounted because fbm's new frames are about to come out.
 

Axis

Monkey
Jun 9, 2004
471
0
That's really weird - I was looking at the WTP Trust myself. I tried one out at the shop and it didn't feel at all bad. Incidently - how high is the bb on the Trust?

Just measured it and it is 11.65". It is a really nice complete for sure. Upgrading mainly because I can.
 

iksmudge

Monkey
Nov 4, 2008
154
0
Just measured it and it is 11.65". It is a really nice complete for sure. Upgrading mainly because I can.
Brilliant - many thanks for that.
Do you mind if I also ask you to make another measure?
Can you measure from the front wheel axel to the center of your bars - I want to get an idea of front height when in the cockpit.
Many thanks
 

Axis

Monkey
Jun 9, 2004
471
0
Brilliant - many thanks for that.
Do you mind if I also ask you to make another measure?
Can you measure from the front wheel axel to the center of your bars - I want to get an idea of front height when in the cockpit.
Many thanks
Sure np. I have been running 8" bars though. The orig WTB bars are 8.25" rise.

It will take a couple days to measure (need to swap out). I have my bike ready for the RaysMTB party this weekend.

If you are interested I will sell you the frame, bars, BB, cranks and chainwheel for a good price once my FBM frame gets here. Should be monday.
 

iksmudge

Monkey
Nov 4, 2008
154
0
Hi Axis,
sorry for not replying sooner - I've been tied up at work and with the kids.
I'm interested in your WTp stuff.
Issue though is where we live in relation to one another I'm in the UK, where abouts are you?
 

roadwork

Chimp
Nov 19, 2009
22
0
Seems like the brakes on that Deluxe XXL would get mucked up being down there. Nice geometry on the frame though. I'm 5'10" and where I live, getting the Sunday Model C frame/forks/bar set isn't an option (import tax would be about 50%-70% of cost and shipping), so I'm also thinking about the WTP Trust for a 20" option.
 

iksmudge

Monkey
Nov 4, 2008
154
0
Hi - had you thought about the WTP 2010 cruiser?
Lately I've been giving it the mull over.
Like you I'm interested in the model c but can't find anywhere in the UK that sells the frame.
Does anyone know where you can get one from in the UK?
 

Axis

Monkey
Jun 9, 2004
471
0
Hi - had you thought about the WTP 2010 cruiser?
Lately I've been giving it the mull over.
Like you I'm interested in the model c but can't find anywhere in the UK that sells the frame.
Does anyone know where you can get one from in the UK?
Oh sorry I lost track of this thread. I will PM you.
 

cmc

Turbo Monkey
Nov 17, 2006
2,052
6
austin
I spent my first day at the skatepark on my Zeigeist... awesome. So stable railing stuff at speed and getting major boost on the hips. Love that thing.
cool... did you make any part switches or are you riding stock ? pics, vid ?
 

Axis

Monkey
Jun 9, 2004
471
0
Sorry for the crappy cell phone pic... swapped out the bars, stem, pedals, seat/post. Animal Piff bars, FBM stem, Animal pedals, Kink pivotal post, Macneil pivotal seat, linear cable... I really really like this bike.
Looks good! Let's see some action pics!