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Santa Cruz vs Intense...

S

slowitdown

Monkey
Mar 30, 2009
553
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lumpygravy said:
I was referring to 2009 DH when Santa Cruz came 1st and the CRC intense team came 10th. Regardless if you are to argue that the bike has almost nothing to do with results, which of course makes 90% of the threads on this forum completely irrelevant, which they probably, then my analogy regarding quality and reliability stands. Santa Cruz = Porshe, Ferrari= Intense.

If you know nothing about these cars which it appears a few do not judging by responses, ferrari are known for their extremely poor reliabilty, service intervals and huge maintenance costs, whereas in comparison it is the opposite for porsche. However people buy Ferrar's from the heart and Porsche from the head, much like the respective bike manufacturers
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I think it's a good analogy. Porsches are reliable compared to Ferraris but not compared to many, many other mfrs.

Might even be more accurate to say Intense = Maserati.

lumpygravy said:
If we are talking innovation, didn't Santa Cruz come out with VPP ages before Intense licenced it from them?
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I'm pretty sure you have it backward. Outland developed it with/for Intense, if I recall correctly.
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
Huck Banzai said:
Granted its been a few ywars, but the current V.10 is Rev 2, if you recall the beast that was the 04 V10!!!! 1 very major revision, and then links and rear triangle.

I dont think they're any more conservative than others; Intense may be a bit more adventurous - they always seem to have a proto on the map - and 951 is the first to raise my eyebrows aesthetically!

BTW - I would buy a Porsche 'for, the heart' - in love with 911's since 1978! I would consider buying a Ferrari purely for the chick magnet factor, otherwise MEH, Ill soup up an EVO and roast em both!

Of course I can afford none of this, Evo included.................MOOT!

;)
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Yes but the old v10 being a completely different bike was designed loooooooong ago. 2002 or 2003 when it first came to production? We are talking about the current v10 that has only come threw minor changes from 05 to 2010 (that may be why the porshe comparison is relevant ;) ).
 
stiksandstones

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
jonKranked said:
That's what I thought. No offense stik, but I think that's kind of an apples to oranges comparison, at least when considering the subject of this thread is DH bikes (at least that's what I've taken away from it).

Stik, is there anyway to get the points for the Manufacturers cup broken down by discipline?
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Hey Jon...
Someone said "Santa Cruz just as fast if not faster judging by race results!", so I post the manufacturers cup final 2009 points standing, where Intense is 4th, the ONLY brand in the top 5 that has ZERO XC riders!

If you want it broke down by discipline, then in regards to this thread, pull your 2 brands: Intense (4th) and Santa Cruz (8th) and there ya go, intense is still 'faster judging by race results'.

Do not imply I am trying to say more than I have, just responding to the comment of 'faster judging by race results'. I like both intense and santa cruz bikes and am friends with people from both companies.
 
ianjenn

ianjenn

Turbo Monkey
Sep 12, 2006
3,001
704
SLO
lumpygravy said:
I was referring to 2009 DH when Santa Cruz came 1st and the CRC intense team came 10th. Regardless if you are to argue that the bike has almost nothing to do with results, which of course makes 90% of the threads on this forum completely irrelevant, which they probably, then my analogy regarding quality and reliability stands. Santa Cruz = Porshe, Ferrari= Intense.

If you know nothing about these cars which it appears a few do not judging by responses, ferrari are known for their extremely poor reliabilty, service intervals and huge maintenance costs, whereas in comparison it is the opposite for porsche. However people buy Ferrar's from the heart and Porsche from the head, much like the respective bike manufacturers
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I don't know my wife's boss has a Carrera S and that thing starts some of the time!

Since we are comparing bikes to "supercars" who is the McLaren F1? You know the ultimate no BS still sickest car ever made.....?:D
 
jonKranked

jonKranked

Detective Dookie
Nov 10, 2005
85,936
24,505
media blackout
stiksandstones said:
Hey Jon...
Someone said "Santa Cruz just as fast if not faster judging by race results!", so I post the manufacturers cup final 2009 points standing, where Intense is 4th, the ONLY brand in the top 5 that has ZERO XC riders!

If you want it broke down by discipline, then in regards to this thread, pull your 2 brands: Intense (4th) and Santa Cruz (8th) and there ya go, intense is still 'faster judging by race results'.

Do not imply I am trying to say more than I have, just responding to the comment of 'faster judging by race results'. I like both intense and santa cruz bikes and am friends with people from both companies.
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Wasn't trying to put words in your mouth, sorry if I came across that way.

I wasn't aware that Intense doesn't have any XC riders. Definitely impressive that they ranked so high based solely on gravity riders. Makes my point moot, as they would have the same number of points either way. Does Santa Cruz have any xc riders at UCI level? I don't know, I don't follow xc.

I think they both make awesome bikes too. And I also agree with the sentiment (that others have stated in this thread) that race results are comparing the riders, not the bikes (but I would be curious to take the top WC riders, put them all on the same frame - ideally one that none of them ride, to eliminate any bias - then hold a race and see who wins!)
 
C

ChrisKring

Turbo Monkey
Jan 30, 2002
2,399
6
Grand Haven, MI
Santa Cruz bought the patent rights from Outland. Then, Santa Cruz licensed the patent to Intense.

I like my Santa Cruz bikes. Well built and affordable. Intense makes nice bikes too.
 
Lelandjt

Lelandjt

Turbo Monkey
Apr 4, 2008
2,514
827
Breckenridge, CO/Lahaina,HI
The 3rd gen V10 saw revisions to every part of the frame. It may look similar but it is a "major revision". I owned a 2nd gen before the current one and the differences are lighter weight, better feeling suspension, and lower BB. I've got 2 full seasons on my 3rd gen V10 and think it is perfect, except the chainstay could be 1/8th of an inch shorter. The shock a bearings could be forced to go another season but I'm replacing them over the winter (Push MX).
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
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Warsaw :/
Lower BB? I didn't really see any change in geo on their site but I may not remember that. Any more detailed info?
 
J

JRogers

talks too much
Mar 19, 2002
3,785
1
Claremont, CA
jonKranked said:
I wasn't aware that Intense doesn't have any XC riders. Definitely impressive that they ranked so high based solely on gravity riders. Makes my point moot, as they would have the same number of points either way. Does Santa Cruz have any xc riders at UCI level? I don't know, I don't follow xc.
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I think the Luna women's team is probably it; they do a good number of world cups and things. I don't think they sponsor any other upper level teams or a mens team.
 
iRider

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,653
3,093
You guys are seriously comparing a bike manufacturer (Intense) with a design and marketing company (Santa Cruz)? ;)

On a side note, the Ferrari and Porsche comparison is off. If Intense is Ferrari then Nicolai would be Porsche. German engineering, made in house with high quality attention to detail but not as flashy as the competitor. :D
 
norbar

norbar

KESSLER PROBLEM. Just cause
Jun 7, 2007
11,369
1,605
Warsaw :/
iRider said:
You guys are seriously comparing a bike manufacturer (Intense) with a design and marketing company (Santa Cruz)? ;)

On a side note, the Ferrari and Porsche comparison is off. If Intense is Ferrari then Nicolai would be Porsche. German engineering, made in house with high quality attention to detail but not as flashy as the competitor. :D
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Maybe if as an option you can buy porshee with a machinegun turret than yea, nicolai would be porshe ;) Though I must admit their bikes seem to look more bike'ish lately and have a bit less gussets.
 
Dog Welder

Dog Welder

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
1,123
0
Pasadena, CA
Rode a 6.6 and a Nomad fairly extensively at Moab. For my body size Santa Cruz makes an XL frame that fit me perfectly. The 6.6 Large was still too short in the top tube. Maybe because it was a larger size...the Nomad just felt better and made riding more enjoyable.
 
P

profile

Chimp
Nov 13, 2009
13
0
stiksandstones said:
Simply not true.

And also bear in mind a few other factors for Intense on this list:
-Intense has the smallest race team budget out of anyone on this list.
-racers are 'choosing' to ride intense, meaning there is no factory team, it is just privateers choosing to ride their bikes.
-the 3 brands ahead of intense are +20x the size of Intense.

2009 UCI Manufacturers cup
1. Specialized (648)
2. Trek (415)
3. Giant (404)
4. Intense (375)
5. Scott (361)
6. Yeti (359)
7. GT (348)
8. Santa Cruz (324)
9. Commencal (303)
10. Merida9 269)

Awarded to the bikes that have won the most UCI World Cup and World Championship events
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The bit I've bolded for you? The one that starts, "privateers..."? That's factually untrue. I invite you to do your own research to reveal. :thumb:
 
B

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
norbar said:
Lower BB? I didn't really see any change in geo on their site but I may not remember that. Any more detailed info?
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The BB actually wasn't lowered IIRC, it was 14.8 before and after the revision. However, the wheelbase was lengthed by .7". The noteable changes to the frame were the significantly decreased weight, and suspension. The revision felt noticably livelier. I wouldn't call it "playful" like the current trend of bikes, just less doggish than the previous model.
 
stiksandstones

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
profile said:
The bit I've bolded for you? The one that starts, "privateers..."? That's factually untrue. I invite you to do your own research to reveal. :thumb:
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In motocross and most often bicycle racing, the term 'privateer' means "not racing for a factory team". At any rate, it is arguing over semantics, the fact Intense was 4th against those MASSIVE brands, is very cool.
 
D

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Just a couple thoughts here.

Its very cool that Intense came up that high against the other brands, but I don't think it actually says much. How many of those riders are on Intense bikes because marketing says they are a "race" brand? Lets face it racers are straight up nuts, and do a ton of silly things all in the name of chasing the win.

As well, were racing results the be all and end all, then Ferrarri would be considered the finest cars in the world, which they are not.

Putting up a SC vs INTENSE thread is as pointless as a SRAM vs SHIMANO one. It all comes down to personal preference. I can say that I've never owned an Intense, but am hoping to change that in the future. I have 2 Santa Cruz bikes right now, and just got rid of my Nomad. I am hoping the Intense SS will replace it, but that depends on money. Do I worry about the name of the bike I am riding? No, i worry about numbers, suspension, fit, and THEN the company behind it.

While some may bitch about some of the SC bikes being outsourced, I could care less. SC makes damn good bikes, and at the end of the day that affects me more then where they are made.
 
dondon

dondon

Monkey
May 21, 2002
380
0
Laguna Beach yesterday, Bend today
The manufactures cup is misleading and irrelevant. Intense sits high on the list most probably because of points garnered by Beerten, Kintner and Sumesa in womens 4X and Buchar/Sumesa in womens DH. While they may not be factory intense they defiantly did not pay for their frames. Having male and female junior and Elite riders in all the categories (including XC, U23 etc) quickly gets you the points.
 
stiksandstones

stiksandstones

Turbo Monkey
May 21, 2002
5,078
25
Orange, Ca
dondon said:
The manufactures cup is misleading and irrelevant. Intense sits high on the list most probably because of points garnered by Beerten, Kintner and Sumesa in womens 4X and Buchar/Sumesa in womens DH. While they may not be factory intense they defiantly did not pay for their frames. Having male and female junior and Elite riders in all the categories (including XC, U23 etc) quickly gets you the points.
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Sven,
'misleading and irrelevant'?
A bit over the top of a description don't ya think?

No one is building their brand off this points system, I would imagine it was started/kept track of, to be another marketing tool for teams to use. Some will use it to their advantage with sponsors and some will make it work...others will sit around calling it 'misleading and irrelevant', just as they did with the UCI world ranking system, but Volvo-Cannondale back in the day used that system to get some miles out of it.

Lastly, I never said anyone gets their frames for free.

Sorry to derail guys, you may resume your Intense vs Santa Cruz argument.
 
TomBo

TomBo

Monkey
Jan 13, 2004
300
0
Calgary,Alberta
Joe W.Cup said:
I'm not trying to starting any $hit here... Bahahaha ...lets say that I am in the market for a new frame (which I am), my choices are the V-10, 951 and the discontinued M6 (which I already own). (Also I talk in circles. (in brackets when they tighten))

Now... bait ...what really are the differences between Santa Cruz and Intense.

Joe
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If your in the market and need information but already own one of your top picks. Then why are you in the market? Does your M6, eat shocks? Feel dead? Not pedal well? Oh are the pedals too low? Only turn left or something? Did you snap it in three?

What differences would you like to feel in your M3? Maby that would help this thread be more informative. Rather then a trolls delight.
 
aj-monkey

aj-monkey

Monkey
Oct 11, 2007
225
0
Squampton, BC
Hey guys. I'm wondering if anyone could let me know what the difference between the 2008 model V10 and the most current rendition of it are? Is the 2008 frame the current? Also does anyone remember what the DH Team build kit included then? Is it the same as the current model DH Team kit? A mate is looking at a second hand one for 3K CAD.

Also was the 2008 frame the one that they slimmed down the tubing. (more standover) or was it later?

Thanks for any help.
 
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aj-monkey

aj-monkey

Monkey
Oct 11, 2007
225
0
Squampton, BC
Lelandjt said:
2008 was the first year for the current V10. No changes since. The build kit hasn't changed much either. The easy tip off is the carbon upper link. Alloy upper link is the 2nd gen.
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Thanks Lelandjt. I noticed the carbon link on a couple of images of 08's but still wasn't sure. Rep.
 
dhr-racer

dhr-racer

Monkey
Jan 24, 2007
410
0
A, A
Foxbat said:
That would be the Turner DHR! Luckily it doesn't suffer the steep price hike the F1 has from a Porsche or Ferrari.
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couldnt agree more!

as for the VPP question from the last page, Outland created VPP in the mid 90's for its own bikes, however the company went butt up. Santa Cruz, looking for a an addition to there single pivot bikes, they picked up the VPP patents. They then started work on the Blur and V-10. They also licensed VPP to intense who had some DH prototypes at races in 2001-2002. SC licensed it to intense according to a MBA blurp around that time because SC thought intense would help advance the technology, which they did.
 
Joe W.Cup

Joe W.Cup

Chimp
Jul 22, 2009
80
0
The W. stands for World. Actually it's Willard.
TomBo said:
If your in the market and need information but already own one of your top picks. Then why are you in the market? Does your M6, eat shocks? Feel dead? Not pedal well? Oh are the pedals too low? Only turn left or something? Did you snap it in three?

What differences would you like to feel in your M3? Maby that would help this thread be more informative. Rather then a trolls delight.
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If you really don't have anything productive to add, why must you waste time by posting? Plenty of others figured out what I was getting at, so I say good day to you.
 
Ithnu

Ithnu

Monkey
Jul 16, 2007
961
0
Denver




I'd pick the snowboard, I'm not a fan of BMX. There's too much BMX in 4X and you'd definitely lose in boarder cross on one. Did I get the right thread?;)
 
uzziman

uzziman

Chimp
Apr 14, 2009
94
0
Charlotte
I've had two Intenses, an Uzzi SLX and a Socom, and i love them both. I haven't had a single issue with either bike. and one of them has seen solid head on collisions with more than one boulder, and hasn't resulted in any damage other than a scuff in the paint.
 
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