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Rock Shox Vivid 5.1 problem

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MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
Hey,

Just wanted to hear from anyone with experience with the RS Vivid 5.1? I've got one on my 09 Sunday that I just built up about 4 weeks ago, have ridden it every weekend since but not given it a total beating yet. While it's on the bike it works really well, still fine tuning the settings but overall pretty happy.

However, I've been pretty thorough with checking the linkage for play (had to do it all the time on my old DH Team) and check it quite frequently throughout a ride by lifting and dropping the back end with the saddle. I've noticed that sometimes when I do this and the bike has been sitting unused for a while, I get play actually in the shock itself; the shaft will go in and out of the body like it is completely undamped for a few mm. I have checked the preload collar and it is definitely keeping the spring snug so it's not that. At first I remembered the stories on here about the shaft coming unscrewed from the rebound base plate or the piston head, but when I squish the shock a few times the play goes away. It is almost like it needs to get a bit of oil redistributed around it before it starts working properly again and the play goes away. I thought that if something was coming undone it would constantly have the same amount of knocking and gradually get worse, but it doesn't. Basically I'd like to know if this is normal behaviour for this shock, as all my experience so far has been on a Fox?

Cheers for any replies.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,076
5,989
borcester rhymes
I don't know whether it's normal for that shock, but on my DHX, it signified oil cavitation from having not enough air in the thing. I had to change the oil and pump it back up, and it was fine.

My symptoms were similar, but worse. I had about 10mm, maybe, of undamped travel, followed by overdamping on both circuits...it sucked and ruined my day. Had a friend rebuild it, and it's been minty since.

I would check the air pressure (do vivids use nitro?) then tear it down and put it back together. Double check the pressure before you ride next time.
 
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happhazard

Chimp
Aug 30, 2005
49
0
There's a pretty thorough rebuild manual on the sram website. Got a used vivid the other day, and cycled it a couple times. It seems to be doing what you described; cavitation. Oh well, if the info on rebuilding this thing works, I'll be glad to know I can fix it myself mid summer without a 2 week turnaround...
 
M

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
So cavitation would cover the symptoms that I'm describing do you think? Sandwich, when you were having problems with your shock, did cycling the suspension sort it out? I'm guessing probably not as you said it ruined your day. Mine feels fine when riding, it's only when it has been sitting for while and I rattle the back end without first compressing it properly that it has the play. It's like the oil settles at the bottom of the shock or something, and has to be flushed around before the damping will kick in in the first few mm of travel.

If it is cavitation, is riding it in this condition likely to cause any damage? It should be under warranty but the shop I got the frame from is, in my experience, pretty incompetent and I'd imagine I'd have to go through them.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,076
5,989
borcester rhymes
First, I think my condition was way worse than what you're describing. I later found out that I had dirt in the valve core, so when I went to check the pressure, I ended up emptying it all out...so you may have a little bit of bubbles, but I had the whole bath. It did seem to get better when riding, but when I checked the thing, it would go back to "clank-squish, clank-squish". Less noticeable on the trail, worse in the parking lot.

There shouldn't be any cycling necessary under normal conditions, I don't think...at least not in a shock. In a fork, it's usually not pressurized, so you can hear the oil drip down when you flip it over. In a shock, that shouldn't happen since you have that compensator piston/bladder, and a much smaller oil volume...usually.

To me, it really sounds like cavitation. I don't know whether the vivid has air or nitro charge, but you may want to check that pressure and pump it back up if you have the option...but that's a bandaid. You should probably have it rebuilt or do it yourself. The DHX was super easy to rebuild, and I may try that with some lighter RSF for next season.

To answer your final question, it won't cause any damage to the shock itself, it just sucks to ride with. I would get it corrected as soon as possible, but I wouldn't worry too much about damaging your shock. As long as the oil is clean, it shouldn't hurt anything.
 
M

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
Just had a look in the service manual there. The Vivid uses air, 200psi on the 5.1. It seems like I would need an adapter specific to the shock to check or change this though, I don't know if that is something they sell to the public. I'm just wondering now whether it is worth my while trying to get a hold of one of these to check the pressure, just send it off under warranty, or just ride the thing as is! :confused:
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,076
5,989
borcester rhymes
I can't really help you there, but it sounds like the shock isn't designed to be user serviced, but rather brought into a shop or sent directly to sramalamadingdong. I would send it to SRAM, a reputable rebuilder like TFTuned or PUSH, or see if anybody near you can help you out. For me, the difference was night and day after it was fixed. I would imagine you'll like the bike better once it's repaired too. A couple MM at the shock means CMs at the wheel.

If you have an off-season like we do, I say send it in and spend a week or two off the bike.
 
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davep

Turbo Monkey
Jan 7, 2005
3,276
0
seattle
Actually the Vivid is 100% user servicable.....as mentioned above, all the info and a complete rebuild tutorial are on the Sram site. Everything from glide rings, seal kits, tune kits, internal and external parts are ALL avaialable either directly from Sram (through a LBS) or from their distibutors.

There are a few specific tools 'needed' for the shock....a spanner for removal of the seal head, an air adapter, as well as vice blocks for the shock body... again, all of these tools are avaiable to the public from any Sram distributor (as well as all the info you need to rebuild/tune/repair you own Vivid).

To the original question, you either have air in your shock (most probabaly) or the main piston is comming loose from the shock shaft. If it is air, it wont 'hurt' anything, but it will most likely get worse over time. If it is the piston, expect your shock to seperate (two pieces) some day soon while you are riding.

Get your shock back to the LBS or (since you think they might not be up to snuff) contact the local sram service center/distibutor directly....

United Kingdom
Fisher Outdoor Leisure
Unit 8/9 Brick Knoll Park,
Ashley Road Industrial
Estate, Ashley Road
AL1 5UG St. Albans, Hertfordshire
PHONE: +44 1727 798345
FAX: +44 8009 807129
EMAIL: sales@fisheroutdoor.co.uk
WEB: www.fisheroutdoor.co.uk
 
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Sverre

Sverre

Monkey
Aug 26, 2004
400
0
Norwaii
I have the same problem as the OP. When the bike is resting/not used for a while I have no rebound damping. But I just bob my bike a couple of times and it´s fine. I even sent mine it TFT to have it fixed. Came back with the same "problem". I´ve used mine lots since it first happend, and the problem havnen´t gotten worse, so I just ride it as it is.
 
M

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
Morning, I am still interested in this thread but I only have internet access at work, hence the long delay.

davep: That was my first thought, the piston coming loose, as I'd heard a few people on here mention it. However, I thought that if that was the case, there would still be play all the way through the travel, and it wouldn't sort itself with a few squashes of the suspension. I am still bearing that scenario in mind though.

Sverre: That's interesting what you said there. Did TF tell you what they thought the problem was, and what work they did while they had it?

Just a general question as well, I take it that when you pump air into the shock it just fills up a bladder or seperate chamber, and doesn't come into contact with the oil directly? So it could be the case that some has leaked from the bladder into the main shock body?
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,076
5,989
borcester rhymes
MarkDH said:
Just a general question as well, I take it that when you pump air into the shock it just fills up a bladder or seperate chamber, and doesn't come into contact with the oil directly? So it could be the case that some has leaked from the bladder into the main shock body?
Click to expand...
Correct, you don't pump air/nitro onto the oil directly. It's unlikely that air leaked from the bladder or piston to the oil, unless there's a bad seal or bladder, but rather that without the pressure that's normally there, the oil heated up and expanded, then either drew air in from outside, or maybe rattled around in the empty space and created bubbles. Once there are bubbles, they're difficult to get rid of, which is why simply refilling it is unlikely to fix the problem.
 
M

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
Cheers for the replies. I'm afraid I don't have the tools or the experience to rebuild my shock, and if it becomes a real issue then it's under warranty anyways so I would just send it away. I don't keep my bike at my normal residence so unforunately I can't do much with it till next weekend anway. I'd like to think it could go directly to TF in the UK, but the reason I am reluctant is that it would probably have to go through the shop I bought it from and they are fairly incompetent. When I ordered the frame from them they ended up putting it out on the shop floor for sale, then almost sold it to someone that phoned them up. Luckily the guy who phoned up was my mate and knew mine was in the shop! Cowboys...
 
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