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Outback for MBC

Should I do it (with a grain of salt)?

Issues:
car payments - JOY
am I ready to give up my 6cyl suv for a 4cyl car with MUCH better gas mileage?

reasons I'm considering it:
gas mileage
my car is due for at least $800 in repairs (wear and tear)
I've never been comfortable driving in the rain with the RWD
I like toys
 

gsweet

Monkey
Dec 20, 2001
733
4
Minnesota
you could always go for used, or certified pre-owned if you want to negate the absurd car payments for a new vehicle. then take some of the extra savings and grab an extended bumper to bumper warranty (if it's not already included).

i just sold my little honda civic, turned around and grabbed an 04 forrester xt with 60k miles, plus a 3 yr bumper to bumper. total cost to me: 2500 dollars!

booya!
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
I need you to buy one so I can tell (second hand) if I need a 2010 or not...


I mean, yes - its the sensible thing to do. :)

I have the 4 cylinder in my 08 but it is mated to a standard transmission, if you are going automatic I'd stick with the 6. Skookum has 04 or 05 with a 4 banger auto - not enough power!!!
 
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C.P.

Monkey
Jan 18, 2004
547
8
SouthEastern Massachusetts
Nice, I would like a new Outback, my '00 is tired...still runnin' strong, but tired. Problem is I need a third row (three kids), and I dont like the Tribeca (fugly).
The new 4 cyl chain driven CVT automatic is an option that seems interesting, never driven one (I know nothing about these).
Personally, I'd go with a 6 cyl if you go Auto, unless you get the 6 sped standard...the new Outback is BIG!
 
you could always go for used, or certified pre-owned if you want to negate the absurd car payments for a new vehicle. then take some of the extra savings and grab an extended bumper to bumper warranty (if it's not already included).

i just sold my little honda civic, turned around and grabbed an 04 forrester xt with 60k miles, plus a 3 yr bumper to bumper. total cost to me: 2500 dollars!

booya!
I can't go used. I put on 30k miles a year
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
You won't notice the power difference. The Suby will be so much lighter that it will feel the same as a V6 truck.
Subies are different vehicles. I have always wanted to like them, but never really did. Certain engine issues and uncomfortable seats have always left me bitter. Make sure you are a Suby person before you sign.
 

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
4,832
0
South Seattle
Oh, and not to discount your motives, but Subies are one of the scarier cars I've ever driven in the rain. Your straight line traction can be so good that you loose touch with how slick it really is. Accidentally touch the brakes in a turn and the front end will dump out on you.
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
I'm a fairly aggressive driver (particularly on twisty mountain roads) and I have never shaken my Outback loose... the idea is to use the engines resistance into the curves and the throttle to throw you out. If you are using the brakes in non-emergency situations you're not taking full advantage of AWD.

MBC - you need the big H6, the 6 speed manual and very dark tinted windows.

EDIT - You can't the two together.

The 2.5i is powered by a revised 170-hp 2.5-liter 4-cylinder Boxer engine and is available with either a new standard 6-speed manual transmission for $22,995 or the Lineartronic™ CVT for $23,995.

I have a 5 speed with the same engine - 2 adults, 2 bikes & gear can fly over the continental divide at 90 in 4th at about 5800 RPMs.

Your straight line traction can be so good that you loose touch with how slick it really is. Accidentally touch the brakes in a turn and the front end will dump out on you.
 
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I'm a fairly aggressive driver (particularly on twisty mountain roads) and I have never shaken my Outback loose... the idea is to use the engines resistance into the curves and the throttle to throw you out. If you are using the brakes in non-emergency situations you're not taking full advantage of AWD.

MBC - you need the big H6, the 6 speed manual and very dark tinted windows.

EDIT - You can't the two together.

The 2.5i is powered by a revised 170-hp 2.5-liter 4-cylinder Boxer engine and is available with either a new standard 6-speed manual transmission for $22,995 or the Lineartronic™ CVT for $23,995.

I have a 5 speed with the same engine - 2 adults, 2 bikes & gear can fly over the continental divide at 90 in 4th at about 5800 RPMs.
say wha? 4 or 6?

and manual is out.
 

Brian HCM#1

MMMMMMMMM BEER!!!!!!!!!!
Sep 7, 2001
32,119
378
Bay Area, California
It's a catch 22, you can't buy a new car for $800, but if it's getting WAY up there in miles it may be worth it. If not drive it around a few more years. I agree with the automatic, if it's your work-commuter car there is no way I'd drive a manual. For a way cool sports car for the weekend get away, of course the manual is the fun way to go.
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
I'm a big fan of 'the devil you know' approach to vehicles. If the truck is solid and reliable other than the maintenance items, and has needed little work to date, fix it and drive it into the ground. Subies don't get great mpg so you won't be saving much $ with greater efficiency, most likely, after you factor in payments/depreciation. Get some better tires to cope with the rainy roads if need be, too.
 

Toshi

Harbinger of Doom
Oct 23, 2001
38,037
7,554
If you are using the brakes in non-emergency situations you're not taking full advantage of AWD.
this statement has me scratching my head

MBC: how much would you anticipate that you'd save in fuel and maintenance costs with a 4-banger Outback vs. your current, what is it, a Pathfinder?
 

yesimaddicted

Monkey
Apr 28, 2007
824
0
centeral Euroland via CA
4 is not enough, i got a 97 legacy, yes its older butttt it still just doesnt have the power. go 6 and have some fun.


btw- the other day i saw a wrx lifted about 6in, all black with gold rims. mmmmmmmmmm
 

Serial Midget

Al Bundy
Jun 25, 2002
13,053
1,896
Fort of Rio Grande
say wha? 4 or 6?

and manual is out.
A manual is not fun in stop and go traffic so, since that's out - I'd go with the six cylinder. I used to commute 70 miles each day at 60MPH and routinely got 31MPG, your should still be able to get very high 20s with a 6 and still have plenty of power for a full load of people, bikes and dog. :)
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
What's your old car?

If it's the pathy that somebody mentioned, mileage sucks, but a Subaru may not be the very best option. $800 will end up being like 2-4 car payments on your new vehicle. Yeah, it's new, but if you fix it now, you should get at least 4 months out of it, and still not have to worry.

I wonder why you're uncomfortable with RWD in the rain...in the snow I can understand, but in the rain, good tires will make a more significant difference than AWD. Maybe it's the weight of the SUV that's the concern?

Anyways...even new cars come with their share of issues, but there is some technology out that really leaves older cars in the dust.
 
this statement has me scratching my head

MBC: how much would you anticipate that you'd save in fuel and maintenance costs with a 4-banger Outback vs. your current, what is it, a Pathfinder?
Quick math - est $1,000 in gas savings per year at today's gas rates - commuting miles only - doesn't count the weekend warrior (VT every other weekend in the winter and bike trips to VT, MA etc in the summer).

Maintenance? I don't have a real number but at least nothing major for 1 year/36K miles.

and yes, Sandwich - the Pathy is my current vehicle. It probably is light. It's not like I'm hauling around cement blocks :)
 

MTB_Rob_NC

What do I have to do to get you in this car TODAY?
Nov 15, 2002
3,428
0
Charlotte, NC
I don't think the overall deal is a consideration because I believe I can get what I feel will be a fair deal.

Subaru doesn't know what they are in for (if I decide to buy)......right Rob??

You have been trained well :p

I am a commuting mad man at the moment, my Jetta GLi is fun to drive and gets great gas mileage (you have to use higher grade fuel at times).
 

V-Dub GTI

Monkey
Jun 11, 2006
951
0
blah!
All i have to say is I was a hardcore VW addict [Hence the name] for a long time, and I just got a WRX after totaling my GTI, I think Im in love. You'll love the AWD in the rain, I just realized how crappy a truck is in the rain after having to drive one for a few days. Plus the subaru seems more reliable, but only time will tell.
 

HAB

Chelsea from Seattle
Apr 28, 2007
11,580
2,006
Seattle
Or maybe the auto is just *that* crappy in them Subarus. :D
My only experience with a Subie auto was in a late '90s Outback, so I'm totally willing to believe they've gotten better, but good god that transmission was infuriating. Even worse than the one in the Grand Cherokee a riding buddy has, and that thing makes me want to punch a baby penguin every time I drive it.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
Quick math - est $1,000 in gas savings per year at today's gas rates - commuting miles only - doesn't count the weekend warrior (VT every other weekend in the winter and bike trips to VT, MA etc in the summer).

Maintenance? I don't have a real number but at least nothing major for 1 year/36K miles.

and yes, Sandwich - the Pathy is my current vehicle. It probably is light. It's not like I'm hauling around cement blocks :)
Well it sounds like it might be worth it for you. 1000/yr plus 30k miles is a lot to put on a vehicle, so something new may actually be a worthwhile investment, but I still suggest looking for something with 5-30k miles on it already, just for depreciation's sake.

The pathfinder is hardly light...I meant that it's heavy weight will make the car "plow" in turns and not handle the way you want it to....something a small car will be more adept at.

I never really picked up on a difference FWD vs. AWD in the rain, but my ability to drive safely has improved and so did the tires on my vehicle, so I think that made up 90% of the difference in feel. Not diminish the stability I felt in the AWD cars...but unless you're driving 9/10s, you should be OK without.

Good luck! I know the outback is a great vehicle and that's a tough decision, but with the use you'll get out of it, I kind of say go for it!
 

dan-o

Turbo Monkey
Jun 30, 2004
6,499
2,805
Yeah, a jetta tdi wagon with dedicated snow tires for your VT trips would get the job done. It will have more sack when loaded for a trip, too.
 
The pathfinder is hardly light...I meant that it's heavy weight will make the car "plow" in turns and not handle the way you want it to....something a small car will be more adept at.


Good luck! I know the outback is a great vehicle and that's a tough decision, but with the use you'll get out of it, I kind of say go for it!
Wouldn't an empty SUV suffer the same issues as a light pickup? All the weight is in the front of the vehicle while the drive is in the rear (when in 2wd). A little slip with the rear wheel can send the back fishtailing or worse. I actually had that happen years ago with my explorer (luckily no damage done *knock on wood*).

Thanks to everyone for the help.

btw, I called another CT dealer today. They confirmed that there are no 6cyl in CT and they are having a hard time getting them. So the 6cyl may be off the table.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
All or most RWD cars suffer the same fate...too much weight in the front, not enough in the rear...but an SUV is a far cry from a pickup, which has almost NOTHING (besides the fuel tank and tailgate) in the rear of the car. In the SUV, you've got a roof, a much heavier tailgate, a pair of seats, an interior...should add up to a couple hundred pounds, much better than an empty pickup!

What happened, exactly? Did you fishtail? That can certainly be a problem in RWD cars; I almost wrapped my dad's triumph around a telephone pole as I went down a hill in the rain, and was not used to RWD tendencies. I've actually experienced fishtailing in a FWD car with bad tires and snow, but that was when I was still learning to drive (and learning to drive responsibly...oops!). You will definitely experience better grip in the subie, but you can probably make your current situation better in the SUV...that's what I'm trying to get at. Can you do full time 4wd in the pathy? IE not 4hi nor 4lo, but "awd" on the t-case? That might help, but good all seasons can get you through the rain pretty powerfully. Just a thought.
 
All or most RWD cars suffer the same fate...too much weight in the front, not enough in the rear...but an SUV is a far cry from a pickup, which has almost NOTHING (besides the fuel tank and tailgate) in the rear of the car. In the SUV, you've got a roof, a much heavier tailgate, a pair of seats, an interior...should add up to a couple hundred pounds, much better than an empty pickup!

What happened, exactly? Did you fishtail? That can certainly be a problem in RWD cars; I almost wrapped my dad's triumph around a telephone pole as I went down a hill in the rain, and was not used to RWD tendencies. I've actually experienced fishtailing in a FWD car with bad tires and snow, but that was when I was still learning to drive (and learning to drive responsibly...oops!). You will definitely experience better grip in the subie, but you can probably make your current situation better in the SUV...that's what I'm trying to get at. Can you do full time 4wd in the pathy? IE not 4hi nor 4lo, but "awd" on the t-case? That might help, but good all seasons can get you through the rain pretty powerfully. Just a thought.
I was driving uphill on lightly snowed/wet roads in VT. I'm not sure what I hit - maybe a frost heave and I started to fish tail badly (going uphill mind you). And all the counter steering I was doing wasn't getting me out of it so in a panic I tapped the brakes and spun around 180. Like I said - by some miracle I didn't hit anyone or anything and it was a lesson learned.

THen and now they were a/t tires. a/s probably would suit my driving more.

They don't make an awd pathfinder and the 4wd is not recommended for dry roads.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,921
borcester rhymes
I was driving uphill on lightly snowed/wet roads in VT. I'm not sure what I hit - maybe a frost heave and I started to fish tail badly (going uphill mind you). And all the counter steering I was doing wasn't getting me out of it so in a panic I tapped the brakes and spun around 180. Like I said - by some miracle I didn't hit anyone or anything and it was a lesson learned.

THen and now they were a/t tires. a/s probably would suit my driving more.

They don't make an awd pathfinder and the 4wd is not recommended for dry roads.
some vehicles have a multi position transfer case that has an option of engaging the front wheels with an open diff...ie full-time 4wd. Part time is the locked center, like you're thinking of. I didn't know if the pathy had that option or not...some fords and GMs do.

AT tires really aren't any good for street driving...that certainly could have contributed...not enough siping! Those are probably the worst conditions though, slushy and wet, possibly frozen, under power, odd weight distribution. In that case (under power) awd is definitely your friend. AS tires would have helped, but maybe not enough.

I like the new outbacks in white...and supposedly the 4cyl naturally aspirated engines are bombproof. maybe not fast, but zomg reliability.