I recently purchased one of these forks and I was wondering if anyone can share some set up tips,I have read a lot about removing the par chamber on some older 888's is this still a good idea?What are the advantages?If you are tuning it with the par in which chamber controls the beginning of the stroke?I was running 85psi in the top and 120 in the bottom it felt pretty good but it could use a bit more small bump compliance.Any advice would be appreciated thanks.
09 888 ata wc
- Thread starter cmoney
- Start date
i have a 2008 which is basically the same as the 2009's.
im running basically the same pressure too, along with the volume adjustment fully open. you can run a lower pressure in the top chamber to get some small bump compliance.
the PAR on the bottom obviously controls the bottom out resistance. ive had nothing but issues with my 888 ATA and its going back to Marz for the third and final time.
it felt great when it worked tho
im running basically the same pressure too, along with the volume adjustment fully open. you can run a lower pressure in the top chamber to get some small bump compliance.
the PAR on the bottom obviously controls the bottom out resistance. ive had nothing but issues with my 888 ATA and its going back to Marz for the third and final time.
it felt great when it worked tho
I heard a rumour that Marz were abandoning the ATA concept, and if your fork goes in more than twice for warranty service, you'll end up with a coil.
yep, thats exactly what they are doing. they offered a free conversion to coil for my ATA. i ended up getting a Evo Ti
well my fork is a cross b/w a 2008 and 2009.
2008 ATA was 2910 grams, 2009 was 3188 grams and 2010 Evo Ti is 2990 grams. ill have to weigh it when i get it
i probably shouldnt have since i dont have a job, but i couldnt get the Evo and add more weight to my bike. and the price was right.IH8Rice, I see that you have made right decision(getting evo ti)
two new suspension parts on my bike for this year should prove interesting
pretty much so. its no different in terms of functionality to the older 888 WC's.
How did you get Zoke to offer you a free conversion to ATA? They just told you "hey we can turn that ATA into coil for free"?
I have a 66 SL (the one with Doppio Cartridge), I wonder if I can convert it for free
I have a 66 SL (the one with Doppio Cartridge), I wonder if I can convert it for free
i asked them to do it the 2nd time it went in (June,) but at that time they were going to charge me.How did you get Zoke to offer you a free conversion to ATA? They just told you "hey we can turn that ATA into coil for free"?
I have a 66 SL (the one with Doppio Cartridge), I wonder if I can convert it for free
since this is the 3rd time for the same problem, they offered 2010 models on the cheap or a free conversion to coil for my ATA. the guy said the PAR's have been nothing but trouble (obviously)
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I had the same problem, I blew one cartridge at a Mt Snow race, got it replaced with an 09 cartridge which apparently had better tolerances than the 08, rode it for maybe 7 hours before it had blown again. They're going to replace it with a spring as well. I'd suggest selling it while it still retains a decent value and getting something more proven. I loved the fork when it worked though, I will give it that.
hahaha
call up Marzocchi and tell them you want the free upgrade to the coil. seriously.
a temporary fix would be to try and burp the air from the top cap on the right. or to release some of the oil from the bottom schrader valve. there will be a lot that comes out, but its only a temporary fix.
i had that issue for 2 years
a couple notes:
no way a 2008 888 ATA is 2910g. It's close to 3200g.
mine holde up just fine, but have done only 5 days shuttling so far.
anyone tried these air carts?
http://www.protone-components.it/prodotti-kitmodifica.php
no way a 2008 888 ATA is 2910g. It's close to 3200g.
mine holde up just fine, but have done only 5 days shuttling so far.
anyone tried these air carts?
http://www.protone-components.it/prodotti-kitmodifica.php
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wait another couple of days....itll break.
why is half their site in English and the rest is in Italian?
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I have an 09 888 ATA and so far so good. I weigh 150ish w/ gear and I typically run 45/90psi.
I find that when I run less compression damping I get much better small bump compliance. Usually like 4-6 clicks. I keep my VA adjust all the way open. I haven't really needed the extra progression.
I set my ATA to 45psi all the time. I set my PAR between 90-120psi depending on the aggressiveness of the trail. You can use VA or compression to control bottom out once you get on the trail. The whole point though is to control your bottom out while not sacrificing your LSC. Pretty easy to do with PAR and VA.
A lot of people like the complete linear feel though and remove PAR. You could then also put in an bottom out cone from Avalanche DH or something and be able to run super soft settings
I find that when I run less compression damping I get much better small bump compliance. Usually like 4-6 clicks. I keep my VA adjust all the way open. I haven't really needed the extra progression.
I set my ATA to 45psi all the time. I set my PAR between 90-120psi depending on the aggressiveness of the trail. You can use VA or compression to control bottom out once you get on the trail. The whole point though is to control your bottom out while not sacrificing your LSC. Pretty easy to do with PAR and VA.
A lot of people like the complete linear feel though and remove PAR. You could then also put in an bottom out cone from Avalanche DH or something and be able to run super soft settings
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What exactly should I expect to break?
7 out of 8 '09 Fox40's that my LBS sold in 2009 came back. Which doesn't necessarily imply it's going to 'break' on anyone.
Most likely because they are Italian made products. We're lucky they're not French.
Well, you might end up with a 4" travel fork. Had a customer's fork go off for warranty service 3 times, various problems, and the final time the warranty center dropped a spring assembly from an RC3 in there. Amazingly enough it works fine now.
the fork will get stuck down in its travel giving you a 4-6" DH fork. you wont be able to pull the fork up as the air has bled from the PAR chamber into the top chamber. it was a huge problem they had with the tolerances b/w the o-rings and the internal parts. this happened 3 times to me. another issue was the the fork not getting all 8" of travel. it would get about 6" and get unbelievably stiff and not getting down to 8". they told me to bleed the oil from the PAR chamber...but that was only a temporary fix.
and if 7 of 8 40's broke from your shop, i wouldnt even step foot in that store. that has got to be the highest failure rate for a single store in the world.
Almost right. This is caused by the o-rings drying out and leaking (or leaking because of bad tolerances if you have a bad fork) and allowing air to leak between the main air chamber and the Negative air chamber. When this happened to me I took the cartridge apart in the parking lot at Whistler and greased the o-rings. 15 minute repair. No problems since but I'm gonna get fresh o-rings this winter.
The reason for removing the PAR piston and making it one air chamber is to get a more linear spring rate and get full travel. Coils are linear, air is already progressive. There's no reason to make it even more progressive in the last quarter of travel.
Remove the PAR, keep your seals lubed and enjoy a very tunable DH fork with travel adjust. Buy the 2010 stantions if you want to drop a half pound. I love this fork.
I weigh 180 with gear. I run 80psi, 3-5 clicks of compression, 8 clicks of rebound, and no turns of bottom-out.
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I have an '08 which I bought brand new. On the first ride its travel reduced to around 150 mm - fail! I took the PAR chamber out and have had two seasons on it without a hitch. It has been a great fork - but the fact that i had to get my hands greasy just to make it work is pretty stupid. I found instructions on PAR removal on MTBR I think...its pretty straight forward.
its not the air from the PAR leaking into the top chamber?
in my first two warranty repairs, they replaced the o-rings with new ones and on the third time, the replaced everything inside w/ newer, tighter tolerances...still no dice. when i got the fork back from its 2nd warranty service, the fork was bad right out of the box. i was really pissed at this and almost missed my trip to France. i had to track down the UPS guy to find my fork since i was leaving for Morzine that night and obviously needed my fork.
their offer to replace the air cartridge with coil is nice, but that should have been offered last year after my third warranty work. im not going to deal with another air DH fork (besides another Foes,) so im getting a 2010 Ti coil.
Those are both positive springs so that wouldn't make it suck down, just get stiffer in the early part of travel. When air goes from the positive spring to the negative it makes the fork suck down. It happened to me at Whistler. The tech at a shop told me what was happening so I took it apart, greased the o-rings, and no problems since. I'd already removed the PAR piston a year before.
So to recap, there are 3 problems with 888ATAs, sucking down, not getting full travel, and ATA winding down (only a problem with '08s, fixed in '09).
To fix sucking down grease the o-rings or replace them, specifically the one between the positive and negative chambers.
To get full travel eliminate PAR and run only a small amount of oil in the air chamber. If you're bottoming reduce the damper air volume (RC3 knob). Directions for PAR removal: http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=3490818&postcount=2
If your ATA knob screws itself in while riding unscrew the top cap and look for the 2 holes in the side of it. There are small allen screws in these that push on springs that push on the detent balls that are supposed to keep the knob from spinning. Screw them in some to put more resistance on the knob.
P.S. I've also noticed with most forks I've owned including both 888s and my motocross fork that the damper will build up pressure while riding. Once a week loosen the damper side top cap and listen for a hiss.
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thankfully winding down was the only issue i didnt have with the fork. i have to say though, when the fork got stuck down in it's travel, it felt great for that 4" of travel!
Foes's original DH forks, before the Curnutt design, had a valve to bleed the small amount of air pressure that built on in the system. i wish they came out the new gen model.
Probably because it was getting worked on so much that it didn't get ridden enough to set in. I didn't get wind down till I'd had the fork for a year. The knob loosened up from use and then would turn on its own.
I'm surprised top end DH forks don't have the bleed valve that your Foes and every moto fork have. It's a pain that to burp the top cap I have to first remove the RC3 and rebound knobs.
Wow I removed the Par chamber and it was super easy only about 15 minutes,thanks for the link to the DIY I would not have been able to figure it out without it.The fork feels great really linear through out the travel.I tried burping the air out of the compression side too although I did not get any,all I can say is watch out for the detent balls on the rebound and air volume adjusters they like to try and get away.Hopefully this will be the end of the troubles for my fork.Cheers
Yeah, I forgot to mention the detent balls, haha! That's why there should be a bleed valve. Now just remember to keep your air chamber o-rings lubed so they don't leak.
I was mentioning the forks failing, not the shop. Your shop also didn't make your 888 fail, did it.
Yes it may be a rare occurence, and I may be lucky enough with my 888, but that's it.
i dont let anyone work on my bike besides myself.
and the fact that a shop had 7 of 8 of the same exact fork fail, means i would never set foot in that shop. apparently apes work there
Just got back from my first ride after removing the par,the fork feels great,totally bottomless feel now,I found myself trying to run the front tire into roots and rocks just to test how plush it is,and I was getting close to full travel no real hard hits though,the front tire was hooking up well in the corners too so the fork is working great all around.
Sweet! Isn't it funny how everyone acts like this fork is possessed by demons but once you've had it apart you can see how simple and easy to maintain the air cart is?
id be tempted to take it out, but the fork had to go back or it would have went in my fireplace.
I understand. I'd feel the same if my fork was warranted 3 times. After a year of use I had my '08 lowers replaced with '09s under warranty cuz the bushings had always had some slack. This didn't piss me off since a $40 rebuild with new lowers, seals, and bushings after a year of use was pretty sweet.
My 888 ATA puked all the oil out of the left leg two minutes into my first ride it went back for warranty and got new lowers I rode it two times after that was not very impressed and put it back in the box and mounted my Boxxer Team,well the Boxxer bit it a couple of weeks ago and is back for warranty,thats why I pulled the 888 out and started asking questions,now with the PAR removed and riding it yesterday it felt way better than my 2010 Boxxer so the Boxxer is going in the box when it gets back and I am going to rip it up on the 888,sometimes it pays off to ask lots of questions.
thats blasphemy in these forums
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