Not to mention better looking and mmm, lots of carbon.
Sram xo 2011
- Thread starter Trekrules
- Start date
Maybe this split between whats best for xc/road and fr/dh will bring about a better drive train for us. It makes sense for Sram to take care of road and xc first, its a bigger market. I see the hammer shmidt working as a good platform for a dh/fr drive train. 5 speeds built into the cranks(sealed), and a tensioner and one gear out back. So many pros to this setup and it could work on current frames. Sram just has to create it, and it would be a step above shimano's saint group.
that still wont their the bitchfest on how stupid Sram is for having 10speed in X0
Agreed but the thread was in discussion about the new 10spd and how it would affect the DH crowd, all I'm hoping for is they continue with 9spd and or bring out options, rather than do what other companies have done in the past and that is force us or try to down there route!
Its why Ive always been a Sram supporter, they were riders for riders, if the above is the case I have no issue with 10spd, but I don't see me running it on my DH bike or even my AM bike, Ive been running dual ring 2x 9 for years ya don't need 10spd for that, and same with DH ya still were able to select gearing to achieve what you're saying 10spd does.
I'm also not so worried about a specific DH group but that is more in response to what others have asked for and since Saint has been a relative success then i see no reason why this would not be a intended successful market, like Hammerschidt many argued about and its proven itself, to me I'd rather run that than a 2x10 rear anyways, another issue this could raise is and why you say medium and long cage rear Ds, is top jockey clearance on the 10spd cluster?
I'm all about progress and options, so Sram keep the options open.
Hammerschmidt with a 11-36 cassette for my next bike.
Twenty speeds of goodness, better then that 18 speed XX.
Twenty speeds of goodness, better then that 18 speed XX.
Yeah but the real point is its NOT going to affect the DH crowd one bit. At least, not anytime soon. You will still be able to get 9 speed stuff for years and years to come. Hell you can still get 8 speed stuff if you know where to look. Just because something new is introduced for MTB, doesn't mean it will have any bearing whatsoever on the DH crowd. Its just the DH crowd constantly thinking "ME ME ME" that makes it seem so. If people would simply look at XX and the new X0 (even current X0) for what it is, then this topic would never have popped up, particularly in a DH forum.
I think that most people don't use 3x9 already, whether it be due to having a bash-ring or simply because they never use the 44t. In that sense, all you are then discussing is what's the proper gear-ratio. You could say that a 36t cassette is specifically intended to be used with a 29er, but it comes down to personal preference. On my 29er I love my ultegra 12-27. If I can mash a 32t around on my heavy-am and FR/DH bikes without using a granny, I can surely push a 27t on a bike that weighs 10-20lbs lighter. I very rarely see an XC racer that uses the granny ring, and as far as DH bikes these things are even more true, that you don't need a huge rear cog. End result is that 10spd on a DH bike is pretty rediculous. 2x10 on an XC bike isn't really a big change when you consider most people don't use the big ring, but of course we said the same thing about going to a 9spd from 8spd (that it was a very small difference and not worth it).
I think the motives have to be questioned, even in the XC world. It seems like manufacturers are always trying to push some new idea as the "thing" that will somehow magically make you faster and allow you to keep up with your faster buddies. Gearing is somewhat important, but SS guys go up crazy steep stuff with only one gear. That doesn't mean that we all need to SS, but it does mean (to me) that psychological training as at least as important as physical training, we can do a lot more than we thing, and some component is not going to mean the difference.
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Rumor has it that SRAM changed their mind and isnt releasing the new product line, something about internet forum conflicts, seems the issues is resolved however, it appears that Raleigh is about to debut a new 12 speed drive train with extra long cage derailleurs to accommodate the 44-5 gearing on their proto cassettes-which will be made of glass
This man speaks the truth.you too, same here.......
this thread is funny.....but then again I'm at work......
J
I wonder who the bigger gear-whores are, DH or XC guys.
The fastest racers out there are doing just fine without DH specific gear, so I'm not sure why a bunch of forum jockey sport class racers feel the need to have such specific drivetrain gear. Then if it does come out, they complain about the price. If you have a problem with 8 or 9 gears, just lock them out.
X0 is top end XC, and it makes a ton of sense to go 10 speed. Graphics are debatable, I'm more interested to see how they deal with making the cassette shed mud without going the extremes of the XX cassette.
I am sure that if SRAM sees DH as a viable option for its own grouppo, as Shimano has, they will build a DH group. Giggles all around.
pure gold "forum jockey sport class racers" ftw.
X9 Hubs
Rumour on mtbr has it that, for 2011, XTR, XT AND SLX will be 10 speed. If you want to push 10 speed on the xtr-buying xc racer types, fine, but making XT and SLX 10 speed is ****ing stupid in my opinion.
Here's an idea Shimano/Sram. How about you actually LISTEN to what consumers want, rather than trying to force **** we don't want down our throats. At the end of the day, we'll be happier, and more likely to buy your product by choice. I was optimistic that Shimano were turning over a new leaf with the lighter Saint group, and the Shadow dérailleurs that seemed to be an attempt to solve a genuine problem. But this? No thanks.
Here's an idea Shimano/Sram. How about you actually LISTEN to what consumers want, rather than trying to force **** we don't want down our throats. At the end of the day, we'll be happier, and more likely to buy your product by choice. I was optimistic that Shimano were turning over a new leaf with the lighter Saint group, and the Shadow dérailleurs that seemed to be an attempt to solve a genuine problem. But this? No thanks.
Wait and see if its an option first, before condemning them to death.
you could always go with the truvativ(sram) hammersmidt
i have been running a 2x9 setup for years, one extra in the rear for freeride and trail will work just fine...for dh id stick with a road 9 cassRumour on mtbr has it that, for 2011, XTR, XT AND SLX will be 10 speed. If you want to push 10 speed on the xtr-buying xc racer types, fine, but making XT and SLX 10 speed is ****ing stupid in my opinion.
Here's an idea Shimano/Sram. How about you actually LISTEN to what consumers want, rather than trying to force **** we don't want down our throats. At the end of the day, we'll be happier, and more likely to buy your product by choice. I was optimistic that Shimano were turning over a new leaf with the lighter Saint group, and the Shadow dérailleurs that seemed to be an attempt to solve a genuine problem. But this? No thanks.
Maybe they are listening to what the customers want? DH is a very small subset of the very large group of mountain bikes. The XC, AM, Trail, ride through the mountains all day crowd might be wanting another gear. Shimano still has Saint, Saint is still 9sp and that is their DH/FR group so i don't know why we are all complaining about them changing their trail/xc groups up. I know there are some climbs in Pisgah where i wouldn't mind having one extra gear up top and it would open up being able to run 1x10 with more gears out back.
I'm sure you will be able to get sram 9sp for awhile, and w/ everyone on here saying its stupid to run x.o on the back of DH bikes anyway because of the cost makes this a no-issue. Run x.9 or x.7 with a PG-970 or make your 6,7,8 sp set up you want.
This is back to the future experience. Just like reading a thread when Shimano went from 8 to 9 speed.
you think that Sram and Shimano just puled 10speed out of their ass because they want to screw the customers? DH is a super small segment of the mtb market and as pointed out NUMEROUS times, XC/AM people will be all over this....which it is geared (no pun intended) for.
this obviously isnt a DH product. just because someone posted it in the DH forum, doesnt make it true
instead of b!tch!ng on an internet forum you guys should email SRAM and Shimano what you would like to see. maybe they will listen, maybe not, but they won't hear you whining here.
and I know some industry people lurk here.
now trying to get a bunch of people to use a similar email that says what you would like using a positive attitude could be pretty productive.
example:
Dear Sram;
I have heard internet rumors that more 10sp groups are coming. Personally I am not interested in more gears, but I do like the wider gear spread on the cassette, 11-36. I also like just 2 front chain rings. 2x9 is what I have now but I believe it could be better. 11-36 9sp cassette with 24-36, 24-38, or 26-40 front options would be ideal for most people in my opinion. Right now, with my 11-34 cassette, I often shift 2 gears at a time because the gear ratios are so close together. On my dh/fr bike I would like a wider range cassette also, since I only have one front chain ring. A single front chain ring is pretty popular these days do to simplicity. Less is more.
Thank you for your time
joelsman
and I know some industry people lurk here.
now trying to get a bunch of people to use a similar email that says what you would like using a positive attitude could be pretty productive.
example:
Dear Sram;
I have heard internet rumors that more 10sp groups are coming. Personally I am not interested in more gears, but I do like the wider gear spread on the cassette, 11-36. I also like just 2 front chain rings. 2x9 is what I have now but I believe it could be better. 11-36 9sp cassette with 24-36, 24-38, or 26-40 front options would be ideal for most people in my opinion. Right now, with my 11-34 cassette, I often shift 2 gears at a time because the gear ratios are so close together. On my dh/fr bike I would like a wider range cassette also, since I only have one front chain ring. A single front chain ring is pretty popular these days do to simplicity. Less is more.
Thank you for your time
joelsman
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you'd be surprised how many industry folk lurk the forums...
Unless you copy/paste this thread in said email...
I wouldn't put it past them. Not so much screw the customer but try and tout something new simply for the sake of it, and to give them a new marketing angle. Satelite shifters. Dual Control. Rapid Rise. I rest my case...
I have tons of friends that race xc that are stoked on their 10 speed XX setups. It makes a lot of sense for the xtr group. MAYBE for XT, but to go 10 speed on SLX, the hard-hitting, rugged, "trail" group is ridiculous. Maybe it'll be an option, but I hope people have the sense to realise 10 speed is always going to be more problematic and vote with their wallets, as was the case for my examples above.
is anyone in this thread really naive enough to think that with SRAM powering so many gravity teams and oe product lines that they wont bring something dh specific to market?
I mean rock shox, avid, tru vativ, all have offerings, i am hoping they are just sitting and waiting to release a really killer product that is internally geared...we'll see.
I mean rock shox, avid, tru vativ, all have offerings, i am hoping they are just sitting and waiting to release a really killer product that is internally geared...we'll see.
No wonder industry people hate forums so much.
While your thoughts that SLX is a "rugged trail group", the positioning of the group in the market is more akin to a junior version of XT, especially in Europe. It is found on tons of XC oriented bikes as well as trail and all mtn. The SLX group took the place not only of Hone but also of LX. It needs to play across many segments of the market. 10-speed here is a wise choice by Shimano and caught some with their pants down.
-ska todd
but we're the customers! and we're always right!
id love to try a 10speed on my DH bike. i use my DH bikes for light XC rides and for just riding around. i think the chainline might be a little (or alot) off, but i use most of my 11-34 cassette now
How would the chainline be any more off than with 9spd?
Meh. I still feel that, at that price point, most customers would rather their bikes work better for longer without excess maintenance than have an extra gear ratio. Whilst your industry experience is obviously far better than mine, I've seen first hand the number of customers that bring mid-range xc hardtails back to the shop a month after purchase due to imperfect shifting. My concern is that, by going to 10 speed, this problem is only going to be exaggerated. If it is only an option, and 9 speed is to continue, it'll be interesting to see how many manufacturers spec 10 speed oem.
Yea, so have I, and pretty much everyone that's ever worked at a bike shop as a mechanic. It's called "normal break-in" from cable stretching (even happens if cables are pre-stretched). And it has nothing to do with the quality or even style of the bicycle (seen it on road bikes and hybrids too) or the number of gears, but with the mechanical ability of the customer (many riders don't know how to do basic derailler adjustments). This is why most shops offer free or discounted tune-ups after the first 30 or so days of the purchase.
I don't think I agree. Face it, most people are lazy. If its easier for them to do something, they will. If that means that extra cog will make it easier ot get to the top of the hill, I bet they bite, maintenance be damned.
Maintenance thats ignored on current 9 speed drivetrains is just as easy to ignore on 10 speed ones.
Maintenance thats ignored on current 9 speed drivetrains is just as easy to ignore on 10 speed ones.
Fine. Everyone disagrees with me. I'm going home... 
10 speed has worked good enough for road bikes that companies already have 11 speed setups. if 10speed didnt work for them, i dont think there would be a 11 speed system. and road bikes see a lot more pedaling than DH bikes do.
Dunno that I agree with that either. 
Bikes are like any industry. They need the preception of added gains to fuel sales. Will 11 speeds make you faster? Probably not. Probably not going to do much for you at all to be honest, except for maybe the top 5% of riders that know how to use that stuff anyways. But it APPEARS to do something, so people will buy it.
I'm not saying that a lot of the advancements made have been purely superficial, not at all. But its debatable if people can truly take advantage of the benefits claimed.
Bikes are like any industry. They need the preception of added gains to fuel sales. Will 11 speeds make you faster? Probably not. Probably not going to do much for you at all to be honest, except for maybe the top 5% of riders that know how to use that stuff anyways. But it APPEARS to do something, so people will buy it.
I'm not saying that a lot of the advancements made have been purely superficial, not at all. But its debatable if people can truly take advantage of the benefits claimed.
im not saying that they are necessarily better, im saying that there arent issues with their drivetrain setups like people think there will be with 10speed MTB partsDunno that I agree with that either.