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Slightly complicated bike dilema

haromtnbiker

Turbo Monkey
Oct 3, 2004
1,461
0
Cary, NC
Where to start?
I found a crack in my old morewood izimu. Over the christmas holiday I replaced the frame with a 2008 Iron Horse Sunday in great condition. I haven't really gotten to ride it due to the weather here in the mtns. I've had a Sunday before and I know I like the way it rides, and it will hopefully be even better with the new vivid I put on it.

I recently got a deal with Transition. I would love to get the new tr450 for the upcoming seasons, although I don't know how it would compare to the Sunday.
The downsides:
I just went through the hassle of building a new bike and haven't ridden it yet.
Should I try to sell it to buy the transition?
I will still lose financially.
I will have to wait until mid March for delivery.
Money spent could go towards more racing in the summer.

Well, there you have it. Initial reports seem favorable for the tr 450, but I wonder if it is worth the time, effort, and money. At least I will then ride a bike for a sweet company that is still in business unlike that of Iron Horse. I do realize Transition was generous enough to offer me the deal, and I do want the 450, but I just picked the wrong time to replace the cracked Morewood.
 

dropmachine

Turbo Monkey
Sep 7, 2001
2,922
10
Your face.
Deal with Transition? As in, you're riding for them in some manner? Seems like a no-brainer then doesn't it?

I would get the 450 anyhow. The Sunday, lovely as it is, has 0 support. You're going to lose otu on that bike when you can't get pivots, links, etc...good luck selling it then. I'd sell it now, while you can still get something for it, and get the Transition. At least then you have a great company backing you up, you can get replacement parts, and its not like the bike is going to be a slouch either.
 

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
It's the obvious answer, but if you haven't done so already I'd try and get a shot of the 450, preferably back to back with the Sunday. Try to be as objective as possible; personally I think when most people say that bike X blows their previous bike Y out of the water, most of that will be in their heads (assuming they are replacing like for like, not a Spec Hardrock for a 951 or something). Having recently bought an 09 Sunday WC frameset, I can say that I love the bike and I think it IS better than my old DH Team, but not by an incredible amount. In fact, I think it's more to do with subtle differences on the Sunday suiting my 'style' *cough cough* more than it being just all out better. Put it this way, I'm not going to be on podiums now just cos I have a new frame. :rolleyes:

On the subject of Sundays, it is a bit of a pisser that the warranty is effectively TP, but the way I look at it is they are fairly solid bikes and there are people out there still hammering 05/06 frames with the older hardware. Relatively speaking, if you have a newer frame you chances of having a frame catastrophe are lower than most, so I try not to let it bother me.

EDIT: Just another thing on the subject of warranties with regards to Transition. I don't know anything about that company but if you look back at the start of the Sunday tuning thread you'll see people saying how amazing the support from IH is, good warranty, people who work there on the forum etc. I'm just saying no bike is ever guaranteed to have indefinite support, if that is what you're after I'd stick with Giant, Specialized or Trek for the best chances of that IMO.
 
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NoUseForAName

Monkey
Mar 26, 2008
481
0
EDIT: Just another thing on the subject of warranties with regards to Transition. I don't know anything about that company but if you look back at the start of the Sunday tuning thread you'll see people saying how amazing the support from IH is, good warranty, people who work there on the forum etc. I'm just saying no bike is ever guaranteed to have indefinite support, if that is what you're after I'd stick with Giant, Specialized or Trek for the best chances of that IMO.
Except that IH have **** the bed. So your waranty is worth next to f all.

Ditch the Sundy for the reasons DM listed, get on board with Transition.
 

MarkDH

Monkey
Sep 23, 2004
351
0
Scotland
Except that IH have **** the bed. So your waranty is worth next to f all.
Umm, yeah I am aware of that, but thanks for politely pointing it out. I'm just making a general point that IMO, buying from a relatively boutique brand/small company means that company is more likely to '**** the bed' than one of the bigger brands. Heaven forbid, but if Transition were to go under, TR450 riders could find themselves in the same position in a few years that Sunday riders are in now. Anyway, this is straying way off topic too soon, lets get back to the guys questions.
 

vtminuteman

Monkey
Nov 29, 2004
166
0
Sharon VT
You can get parts for the sunday right? If so, then stick with the sunday, the frames don't crack or break, and parts have to be cheap now. Current bikes are not that much better than the goat sunday.

If your worried about image, getting attention in the pits, and having the latest greatest, than get the tr450.
 

yuroshek

Turbo Monkey
Jun 26, 2007
2,438
0
Arizona!
word if you bike is complete and shreddy i would def stick with it.

why spend more money out of your pocket because you can get a bro deal on a 450? hold off until next year.
 

NoUseForAName

Monkey
Mar 26, 2008
481
0
Heaven forbid, but if Transition were to go under, TR450 riders could find themselves in the same position in a few years that Sunday riders are in now. Anyway, this is straying way off topic too soon, lets get back to the guys questions.
Are you trying to get ahead of the curve or something?

Edit: Didn't realise you are also a recent Sunday purchaser. :thumb:
 

RMboy

Monkey
Dec 1, 2006
879
0
England the Great...
word if you bike is complete and shreddy i would def stick with it.

why spend more money out of your pocket because you can get a bro deal on a 450? hold off until next year.
Agree mate! stay with the sunday.. you will have fun..

Its normally best to wait for the next model of bike.. So the glitches are sorted out.. And im sure the 450 will have some..:-D
 

Banshee Rider

Turbo Monkey
Jul 31, 2003
1,452
10
why spend more money out of your pocket because you can get a bro deal on a 450? hold off until next year.

Agreed. Unless the "deal" is a free frame, then purchasing it will probably involve losing a substaintial ammount of money just to make the switch. Why bother?

You're frame has no support behind it, and is/will be hard to get parts for. The ridemonkey downhill forum isn't the only place that knows that, its the entire used market. They aren't worth much now, and they'll be worth less next year. It sounds like your frames in great condition, and its a fine bicycle; I'd ride it until you have the disposable funds to take that next deal that comes along. As you know, its pretty much a matter of filling out a form and showing a credit card these days anyway. There will be more 'deals' next year!
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
I have to agree with a few others as far as riding the Sunday, Ive never ridden one (want to) but from all the hype including several friends on other rides its a pretty sick bike.....
I would run the Sunday this season as you already have it, swing a leg over someones tr450 at the races just to get an idea see if you can get a run in on it but don't be fooled by there suspension set up. Theirs may feel like the golden ticket but remember they may have the suspension dialed and that MAKES A HUGE difference on any bike except maybe a hard tail :D.

Sundays a proven fast bike with a long standing following behind it, yes there were some business mess ups and it makes it a tad hard on the replacement stuff but theres a ton of them out there so you could pick up another in great shape and part the frame... Thats the bonus to so many being sold....

Keep the Sunday, I dont think the tr450 is going to ride a ton better realistically. Theres good suspension designs with great tuning and thats the ticket to almost all set ups...

Post pics of the sunday! :thumb:

I like transition bikes alot and want a BR for goofing off so Im not biased to IH at all.
 
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manhattanprjkt83

Rusty Trombone
Jul 10, 2003
9,644
1,214
Nilbog
go tr450, every part on your sunday will transfer over from it, and start fresh with a badass bike this season...

something is bound to happen to the sunday, move forward.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
Vote from me to move to the transition. One of the things I love about Transition, is their use of standard bearing sizes.... Makes for nice when you need a pivot or something like that, to be able to go to a local bearing distributor and grab a part, and be ready to roll.......
 

haromtnbiker

Turbo Monkey
Oct 3, 2004
1,461
0
Cary, NC
Bullcrew... here is the bike now



All the parts would transfer over minus the headset and perhaps the seatpost.
 
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Eastern States Cup

Turbo Monkey
Feb 29, 2008
2,465
2
East Coast
Well, it is not at all appropriate to disclose the price,
Actually it is not at all appropriate to post the fact you're getting a sponsored deal anywhere on the internet. And then giving hints to the amount of the "deal". I'm sure Mike at Transition can't be too happy about this thread.

Imagine all the groms calling Transition on Monday for their "deal".:think:
 

davec113

Monkey
May 24, 2009
419
0
Almost everyone I know that has a tranny has gotten a bro deal on it. It's not news that they give deals to move bikes, esp. if you're a decent rider. So does every brand. In DH, it seems like everyone has a hook up somewhere, and thats probably part of the reason msrps are so high.

If the tranny isn't that much more $$$, go for it. It will have better resale later down the road too. But if finances are real tight it's hard to say if you'd be faster on the tranny. I'd do it more for reliability and resale value, which mean squat when you don't have cash in hand and spending the money is going to keep you from doing other things that have higher priority, like actually riding.
 

MFrider

Monkey
Jul 10, 2009
138
0
The East
Get the Transition, if you do not you will not be able to tell your friends you are sponsored and everyone will think less of you.
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
LOL!!! Just keep the SUnday its a proven frame, Its built and ready to ride. Its not like its a POS.... Its a B@D @$$ bike that stupid fast and stable and apparently corners. Hell Id have no issues having one around to ride, granted Im a Canfield guy the sunday, M6 and V-10 are the few bikes I really like...
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
word if you bike is complete and shreddy i would def stick with it.

why spend more money out of your pocket because you can get a bro deal on a 450? hold off until next year.
good advise. But funny too considering you just built up 6 brand new bikes. I'm not busting on you for it either. It's what I try to do every season if I can.

So, I gotta advise Folsom to do otherwise. Craig, if you have the opportunity to be on a new frame, do it. You're going to experience hassles with the Sunday at some point. It will either come in the form of broken parts and/or access to new ones or the biggest hassle, unloading a relic of a frame for pennies on the dollar either mid-season or in the dead season of the fall, when NOBODY is buying bikes. Let alone years old bikes with no support, no parts and lots of wear and tear.

Get on a tranny and ride her. If she breaks, help is just a DSapp away. Things like running over your frame in the driveway and bending a rear triangle. Hucking a drop and cracking a shock mount. Smacking the downtube on a boulder in a fall and creasing the frame.

All of the above can be remedied with money and 3 day air shipping by tranny. With the Sunday, you'll be right back where you are now....stuck with a frame that is too old to have any replacement parts.
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
good advise. But funny too considering you just built up 6 brand new bikes. I'm not busting on you for it either. It's what I try to do every season if I can.

So, I gotta advise Folsom to do otherwise. Craig, if you have the opportunity to be on a new frame, do it. You're going to experience hassles with the Sunday at some point. It will either come in the form of broken parts and/or access to new ones or the biggest hassle, unloading a relic of a frame for pennies on the dollar either mid-season or in the dead season of the fall, when NOBODY is buying bikes. Let alone years old bikes with no support, no parts and lots of wear and tear.

Get on a tranny and ride her. If she breaks, help is just a DSapp away. Things like running over your frame in the driveway and bending a rear triangle. Hucking a drop and cracking a shock mount. Smacking the downtube on a boulder in a fall and creasing the frame.

All of the above can be remedied with money and 3 day air shipping by tranny. With the Sunday, you'll be right back where you are now....stuck with a frame that is too old to have any replacement parts.



Not to mention thats when all the 951's will be hitting ebay
 

bullcrew

3 Dude Approved
If you:
A- have a bike
B- It works and is pretty bad @$$
then C you on the hill!!!!!!

Just ride! Save the coin and rail that sunday, atleast give it a shot, Ive always rode bikes I had in question before I sold em that way Id have a review or reference of how it worked for me.

Its not going to go for less in the next month but will go up a bit over hte next month or so as the season gets under way...
 

Pebble

Monkey
Dec 6, 2006
137
0
Nannup
From someone totally impartial to both brands and a non racer...
I would be tempted by the Transition.
Like you said most parts will transfer over so that's all good, and a bike doesn't take very long to build up so it's not like it will be a hassle.
Is the sponsorship worth it? And have you taken into account the money you will recoup from selling the Horse frame again?

Maybe keep the Iron Horse and ride it until your new frame arrives then sell it. I don't know what deal you're getting, but if you think it's worth it then go for it, particularly if the sponsorship has future potential...ie leading to sponsorship from other companies or perhaps rewards based on your performance etc (yeah I have no idea on the exact workings of DH racing).

If you're that serious about your racing then go for the sponsorship. Besides you cracked one frame already so what are the chances that you will crack the Iron Horse as well? What happens with either scenario...ie cracked Iron Horse means you hunt down another 2nd hand (or new if there are any still left) frame for cheap, or if you brought your frame new maybe you have some form of warranty.........or cracked Transition and you either get a free new frame under warranty or you have to pay for a crash replacement or something?

Anyhow just my thoughts put forward.
 

Eurotrash

Monkey
Mar 2, 2002
362
0
I'd say depends on the deal you are getting, if it's just a couple notes between what you can get for the sunday and what Transition will cost jump on board the transition, it's a sweet bike.
If it's going to cost you a big wedge to swap and the Sunday is in good condition, stick with it, they tend to last well. Spend the cash you save on some pivot/bearing kits and a load of lift passes.
 

RMboy

Monkey
Dec 1, 2006
879
0
England the Great...
I dont understand why people are all saying its hard to get spears... yeah in 2 years maybe.. if you look you can find rear drop puts and linkage kits at certain shops..

I suppose if u brake part of the frame its a different matter.. but dont be fooled, if you look there are spears floating around.. you dont think all the shops that stocked IH suddenly chucked all their spears in the bin......

I have to say Bullcrew is right on this one.. the sunday is sweet!

A lot of the new transition is hype, they have been building us all up for it for ages, getting us all excited.. Im sure its great, but like stated a good tune will make the sunday just as good..

And come on, your not going to brake your sunday.. unless your absolute Sh*t or im mistaken and you mega mega hot and beat the hell out of bikes!
 

MFrider

Monkey
Jul 10, 2009
138
0
The East
Is that a true Mid-March delivery or is that a bike industry Mid-March delivery??

I would stick with the Sunday, Mid-March could easily turn into early May.
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,920
borcester rhymes
Nothing like having a bike that's built up and ready to go. I missed a couple of days of riding last year by waiting too long and switching frames. It's not perfect, but I'm happy enough with my sunday that i'll ride it into the ground. Eventually, I'll either sell the parts to other happy sunday riders, or buy some to keep the frame going. If the shoopergo or neerode ever enter the market, all bets are off though.

Then again, there's nothing like being a bike whore!
 

DirtyMike

Turbo Fluffer
Aug 8, 2005
14,437
1,017
My own world inside my head
I dont understand why people are all saying its hard to get spears... yeah in 2 years maybe.. if you look you can find rear drop puts and linkage kits at certain shops..
................................

!
I say it because on two occasions I have tried, and taken well over three weeks from ANY supplier we have. Alot of it was yeah we have that, ok I want it, order comes in... Sorry we backordered it, litterally had to track down another shop, buy it from them, for our customer.........it took WAY too long for a part. And to clarify, one was the rocker links, the other was the main pivot. But yeah, Certain shops, may have the parts. Even the big specialized shops dont normally keep rebuild kits in stock for all there bikes, specially the big bikes, so I just cant belive that the old IH dealerships are going to have bearing kits for sundays laying around, let alone rockers.


The rockers we got were off a warranty frame, crack at the headtube but the rockers were ok.... the pivot, we ended up having a local bearing supplier that still took two weeks to order, litterally had to sit and look it up.



SO yeah, parts are pertty hard to get ahold of should the need arise for them.

Not saying the OP is going to break everything on his bike, but its def something that needs to be kept in mind currently with the Sudnay. There is zero support left for these, the company is gone... it snot like you can break it, and get credit for the newest and greatest from them..... your out a bike when you break it
 

RMboy

Monkey
Dec 1, 2006
879
0
England the Great...
I say it because on two occasions I have tried, and taken well over three weeks from ANY supplier we have. Alot of it was yeah we have that, ok I want it, order comes in... Sorry we backordered it, litterally had to track down another shop, buy it from them, for our customer.........it took WAY too long for a part. And to clarify, one was the rocker links, the other was the main pivot. But yeah, Certain shops, may have the parts. Even the big specialized shops dont normally keep rebuild kits in stock for all there bikes, specially the big bikes, so I just cant belive that the old IH dealerships are going to have bearing kits for sundays laying around, let alone rockers.


The rockers we got were off a warranty frame, crack at the headtube but the rockers were ok.... the pivot, we ended up having a local bearing supplier that still took two weeks to order, litterally had to sit and look it up.



SO yeah, parts are pertty hard to get ahold of should the need arise for them.

Not saying the OP is going to break everything on his bike, but its def something that needs to be kept in mind currently with the Sudnay. There is zero support left for these, the company is gone... it snot like you can break it, and get credit for the newest and greatest from them..... your out a bike when you break it
Seems over this side of the pond it is not to hard, but im guessing my point is not valid for the states, and i should have put that in my last post. Sorry for that...:thumb:

You got to love small old England! :weee:
 

bizutch

Delicate CUSTOM flower
Dec 11, 2001
15,928
24
Over your shoulder whispering
Seems over this side of the pond it is not to hard, but im guessing my point is not valid for the states, and i should have put that in my last post. Sorry for that...:thumb:

You got to love small old England! :weee:
Your country is home to one of the worlds largest outsourcing bearing, nut and bolt suppliers for strict tolerance tooling. It would make sense.
 

Patan-DH

Monkey
Jun 9, 2007
458
0
Patagonia
I put my opinion in this way:

How many WC races has the TR450 won? and how many world champs?

Now, how many WC races and WChamps has the Sunday won?

Of course that the guy riding the bike was the most important part of the success....but

the Sunday is the ultimate race proven machine.
the transition is a linkage driven single pivot from a company that never did a wc level racebike before.
 

TrailzHozer

Monkey
Jan 29, 2010
120
0
I put my opinion in this way:

How many WC races has the TR450 won? and how many world champs?

Now, how many WC races and WChamps has the Sunday won?

Of course that the guy riding the bike was the most important part of the success....but

the Sunday is the ultimate race proven machine.
the transition is a linkage driven single pivot from a company that never did a wc level racebike before.
how many people on this forum are aspiring WC winners? how many people on this forum have enough skills to really ride a bike to their full potential?

I rest my case..
 

Sandwich

Pig my fish!
Staff member
May 23, 2002
21,031
5,920
borcester rhymes
how many people on this forum are aspiring WC winners? how many people on this forum have enough skills to really ride a bike to their full potential?

I rest my case..
therefore:
how many people on this forum will be held back by one bike vs. another?

He has a valid point...one bike is proven to be superbly capable...one bike has just been released with nothing to back it up...