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The latest daft UCI ruling...

rinseflow

Chimp
May 26, 2009
6
0
Finland
Maybe I ought to sign? Bitching about clothing I'm never gonna get to wear is so hardcore. :weee:

Germans had a nice set of different armbands in the 40's. A fashion to follow for sure.

More seriously though. What kind of empty heads do the companies suffering from this ruling have employed on their advertising/pr departments? Let them go I say...
 

iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
What I don't get: last year everybody was happy that UCI got involved and regulated clothing in DH racing (skinsuit debate), now they are doing it again and suddenly it is bad? You wanted them to be Nazis and measure how lose the clothing fits, now you got it! Don't wake a sleeping dog. :rolleyes:
 

toodles

ridiculously corgi proportioned
Aug 24, 2004
5,479
4,719
Australia
What's the penalty for not wearing the jersey?

I seem to recall one of the Tour de France sponsors simply agreeing to pay the fine so their rider could wear their logos? If the fine wasn't too large maybe that is an option (although I agree its completely unnecessary in the first place).
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
355
Roanoke, VA
Wouldn't be an issue if we had skinsuits still.
(joking... Kinda).

Custom jerseys from clothing sponsors that push the limits is a fine solution by me. I get DH jerseys made in two days if I need a rush job from my local cycling clothing company. They could just as well make me a TLD or Fox jersey template in different colors and scaled logos if I wanted one. It's 2010- sublimation is quick and digitalized, and It's simple to produce and cut a clothing template.

I understand the position that DH is not road or XC racing, but in case no one has noticed, you see lots of riders wearing World Champions, National team and National Champs replica jerseys that have not won them. The key is to push the limits.
Hincapie's Jersey this year is a perfect example of a UCI approved National Champions Jersey.


It fits the general template of the BMC team kit and clearly represents the clothing manufacturer very visibly. If BMC chose to do so, they could include the logos of a few of their key suppliers as well.


Cancellera's Swiss jersey represents every Saxo supplier I am aware of, yes, the logos are small to fit into the alloted space, but honestly, is that really the point? There is sufficient marketing behind National Champions that the vagaries of their Equipment suppliers are a moot point.

The insane Colourways that Hill wears that the kids buy is proof enough that if you market it, you can sell anything to someone as long as their is peer acceptance involved. Where can I buy Alpinestars moto gear in the US? Nowhere. Where can I buy Trek/23 deg kit anywhere? Hell, where can I get a Yeti factory Jersey?
The argument that it is too hard to make custom gear, or that it must be widely available is specious at best in this context.

The problem at hand(and the one that has me steamed) is the allowable sponsor space, but there is no clear ruling in regards to how many sponsors are considered "primary".

I've been pretty clear that I see it as less-than desirable to have stock moto-clothing on the elite level in gravity racing. It does our sport a disservice in terms of consumer perception and performance, it does not differentiate DH as a cycling event effectively, etc.
If a clothing company is so freaking lazy that they pay riders to wear stock gear without also being willing to spend less than a thousand dollars to make and design them custom gear that represents their brands and design abilities as well as the superlative performances that the manufacturers clothing enabled, well frankly, I find that unacceptable.

I am certainly not a patriotic man, but I am a competitive one, and the dilution of national competition is silly and unnecessary.
Hell- I'll say it right now. I will personally pay for and have made the US national champions trade team jersey for the 2011 season if their clothing sponsor is willing to work with their team to take 4 hours to design it, and a few back and forth emails with the UCI technical committee. It would be free, it would be fast, and it would accurately portray the design aesthetic of the clothing sponsor, and represent the title and equipment sponsors more than suitably.
A facebook group won't solve this, but pushing the boundaries of the UCI rules while, not a repeal, does represent the most feasible option at this moment. It would demonstrate, among other things that compromise is within reach, and that the visual aesthetic of DH racing can return into the fold of other cycling events without having to have undesirable rules imposed upon them.

And- with all the dark colored crap people are racing in these days, most national liveries will photograph considerably better.
Potential national champions- you are among the best in the world. Place reasonable demands upon those who pay you, otherwise you devalue yourselves and devalue our sport.
 
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iRider

Turbo Monkey
Apr 5, 2008
5,648
3,089
:clapping: :thumb:

Wouldn't be an issue if we had skinsuits still.
(joking... Kinda).

Custom jerseys from clothing sponsors that push the limits is a fine solution by me. I get DH jerseys made in two days if I need a rush job from my local cycling clothing company. They could just as well make me a TLD or Fox jersey template in different colors and scaled logos if I wanted one. It's 2010- sublimation is quick and digitalized, and It's simple to produce and cut a clothing template.

I understand the position that DH is not road or XC racing, but in case no one has noticed, you see lots of riders wearing World Champions, National team and National Champs replica jerseys that have not won them. The key is to push the limits.
Hincapie's Jersey this year is a perfect example of a UCI approved National Champions Jersey.


It fits the general template of the BMC team kit and clearly represents the clothing manufacturer very visibly. If BMC chose to do so, they could include the logos of a few of their key suppliers as well.


Cancellera's Swiss jersey represents every Saxo supplier I am aware of, yes, the logos are small to fit into the alloted space, but honestly, is that really the point? There is sufficient marketing behind National Champions that the vagaries of their Equipment suppliers are a moot point.

The insane Colourways that Hill wears that the kids buy is proof enough that if you market it, you can sell anything to someone as long as their is peer acceptance involved. Where can I buy Alpinestars moto gear in the US? Nowhere. Where can I buy Trek/23 deg kit anywhere? Hell, where can I get a Yeti factory Jersey?
The argument that it is too hard to make custom gear, or that it must be widely available is specious at best in this context.

The problem at hand(and the one that has me steamed) is the allowable sponsor space, but there is no clear ruling in regards to how many sponsors are considered "primary".

I've been pretty clear that I see it as less-than desirable to have stock moto-clothing on the elite level in gravity racing. It does our sport a disservice in terms of consumer perception and performance, it does not differentiate DH as a cycling event effectively, etc.
If a clothing company is so freaking lazy that they pay riders to wear stock gear without also being willing to spend less than a thousand dollars to make and design them custom gear that represents their brands and design abilities as well as the superlative performances that the manufacturers clothing enabled, well frankly, I find that unacceptable.

I am certainly not a patriotic man, but I am a competitive one, and the dilution of national competition is silly and unnecessary.
Hell- I'll say it right now. I will personally pay for and have made the US national champions trade team jersey for the 2011 season if their clothing sponsor is willing to work with their team to take 4 hours to design it, and a few back and forth emails with the UCI technical committee. It would be free, it would be fast, and it would accurately portray the design aesthetic of the clothing sponsor, and represent the title and equipment sponsors more than suitably.
A facebook group won't solve this, but pushing the boundaries of the UCI rules while, not a repeal, does represent the most feasible option at this moment. It would demonstrate, among other things that compromise is within reach, and that the visual aesthetic of DH racing can return into the fold of other cycling events without having to have undesirable rules imposed upon them.

And- with all the dark colored crap people are racing in these days, most national liveries will photograph considerably better.
Potential national champions- you are among the best in the world. Place reasonable demands upon those who pay you, otherwise you devalue yourselves and devalue our sport.
 

Downhill.Ben

Chimp
May 18, 2009
22
0
Newcastle, England
how do you figure??
It was all about promotion, was it not? :confused: Brands didn't like the skinsuit idea - it didn't give them the "right" type of image and the look was "damaging" our sport and sponsors wern't receiving the "right" dividends when riders were wearing lycra. Perhaps itt was also meant to help give gravity racing it's own image (which as we know all stems down from MotoX anyway)... That's certainly a very general interpretation.

This rule, as you can now see goes against that ruling. Personally, I'm against the skinsuit ban (but let's not go in to that). The way I see it, it should have been one or the other. But what the heck.
We may not get anything changed, regardless of how many people sign the petition, but perhaps the UCI may see their wrong-doing.

I agree with (the majority of) what's written above. If it becomes accepted, it will sell. But we're a long way from selling lycra to kids right now. The image of the industry is too far away from that at the moment, but rulings like this will only take us further way.

To me it *appears* the UCI has no long-term or even short-term aspirations for gravity racing, but I suppose that's digressing a bit.

Ben
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
355
Roanoke, VA
I agree with (the majority of) what's written above. If it becomes accepted, it will sell. But we're a long way from selling lycra to kids right now. The image of the industry is too far away from that at the moment, but rulings like this will only take us further way.

Ben
What do DH national champions jerseys have to do with lycra?
 

ska todd

Turbo Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
1,776
0
Mickey, while this issue ain't quite apples-to-oranges with the road scene, it ain't so close to apples-to-apples either.

In a road (or CX or even XCO) event the competitors are much more closely bunched together. Thus, a nat champs jersey has been argued for by the UCI as being easier for a commentator to use to pick out a particular athlete. In DH racing the commentators (and often the spectators) know specifically who is coming down the hill on each specified interval b/c of printed start lists. There is no need for it for this reason alone.

As for it being any sort of tradition, the only tradition for jerseys in DH racing is for the World Champion to wear the rainbow stripes. Up until the 06 season the UCI never chose to enforce (if it even was a rule) this stipulation. Between 06 and 09 they enforced it in a rather lazy manner. Some events they'd call it, others they wouldn't. Sometimes it was a warning, other times a 2500CHF fine.

As for jersey sales, as most teams in DH are not directly owned/run by the corporate sponsor, it becomes a bit harder to actually "sell" any type of clothing. While it can be done by the larger brands, it is increasingly harder these days as more soft good space for MTB clothing is allotted not to team kits but to more generic and casual looking apparel. Largely, the only real outlet for these kits is at events. This is a problem as again the teams are largely run by 3rd parties. They do not have the ability to merchandise or sell soft goods at the events. Heck, even to have the proper "license" to sell merch in pit spaces can often cost more than the profit of all combined sales (and is not included in trade team pit spaces). Add to that the cost of transport of said merchandise and you are looking at a net loss for selling clothing. This is why often the only clothing sold by teams at events are some t-shirts that are sometimes printed up locally and sold pretty much on the side.

I'm not arguing that National Federations should not award National Championship jerseys. They should continue to if they so chose. However, the wearing of said jersey should only be required within said nation and only if stipulated by that National Federation. The UCI should change their wording to allow for the wearing but not to require it. Let the Federations set and enforce their own rules.

-ska todd
 

vtminuteman

Monkey
Nov 29, 2004
166
0
Sharon VT
To me it *appears* the UCI has no long-term or even short-term aspirations for gravity racing, but I suppose that's digressing a bit.

Can you blame them? We are a minority and they will continue to make rulings based on road until we are as big or a majority. The best thing we can do is promote and expand local bike parks and races. We got to grow are sport at the ground level. Gravity racing is still a young sport and it needs to grow up and mature before we will get respect and attention.
 

Downhill.Ben

Chimp
May 18, 2009
22
0
Newcastle, England
To me it *appears* the UCI has no long-term or even short-term aspirations for gravity racing, but I suppose that's digressing a bit.

Can you blame them? We are a minority and they will continue to make rulings based on road until we are as big or a majority. The best thing we can do is promote and expand local bike parks and races. We got to grow are sport at the ground level. Gravity racing is still a young sport and it needs to grow up and mature before we will get respect and attention.
Well it's a bit of a double-edge sword here. How do they expect the sport to grow when it is governed in a way that hampers its growth...?
 

SuspectDevice

Turbo Monkey
Aug 23, 2002
4,157
355
Roanoke, VA
Todd,
I dig what you are saying about at event jersey sales etc, but sponsor neutered jerseys (ala the current heat transfer moto trend) are quite marketable by clothing manufacturers. There is enough jingoism and blind populism in the world right now to sell ample national-themed jerseys.
Look at TLD last year- They basically made an entire kit design that they marketed to work for the the Dutch BMX team.

That's the knwu Olympic jersey, but even the dutch national team jersey

Is close enough to something that is amply marketable with slightly different text content to make it work as a special-edition/limited production piece. The TLD Day in The Dirt stuff is very simple with bold color blocking as well. Some companies have very simple champion's jerseys, but look at how much Lopes has gotten away with in the past that is currently within the purview of the rules they are currently written...
It's just too easy to make clothing these days not to try to capitalize on the rules as they exist now. That doesn't mean we shouldn't advocate for better rules though, of course.
Who cares if it's not the "standard" clothing of a particular team. It's "better" than standard clothing in our current sneakerhead/collabo/curated/colourway/VitalMTB feature consumer culture. For the teams it's an additional differentiating feature to leverage to sponsors and consumers... Rad bike paint for the frame makers, limited edition clothing for the clothing suppliers, etc. We've done it all before in DH.
Anything can be marketed, and anything can be spun to be a positive marketing feature if the people who design and market a product are creative enough.

It's not the solution anyone necessarily wants, but it is certainly a way to work around a problem? How many Monster Green bikes have people sold in the last few years, after all? How many Lopes paint hardtails did Cannondale sell? How many limited edition Palmer Strokers did Manitou sell? Tomac edition Maguras? Palmer Sworks DH? Signature tires? Hill/Peaty/hotwheels D2's? There is an existing market for signature and replica stuff.
This is a market that isn't fully exploited yet. Jump on it! I'm sure lots of people would buy Hannah's worlds bike if it was a limited edition...
Just add the darn jerseys as a mid-season limited edition kit, neutered if that's the goal, as far as I'm concerned. Even the simple single stripe jerseys can be marketed if you stick Fox where it used to say Polska.

Right now the UCI rules DH in odd ways, but like all things, there are certainly ways to make money off of this problem, it will just take some wrangling with the UCI to get approval for clothing that pushes the limits as much as possible.
The solution to every problem is a product right?



We are stuck with this rule for this year, quite likely, so I propose the industry takes it on the chin and finds ways not just to adapt, but to make a profit.
 
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