Help me out. Commencal Supreme DH or 951?

Commencal-guy · Mar 6, 2010

This is going to be very bias... But I'd say go for the Commencal. If my memory suits me correctly the wc edition comes with a shock, chainguide, seatpost/ clamp and a rear hub. Saves you a bit of time and money. I've always liked how the Commencal rode. Very versatile. However it is a bit on the heavier side. 10lbs just the frame without a rear shock.

The Intense 951 is really nice too. I guess you really can't go wrong with either one. It just comes down to your riding style, preference, and what will benefit YOU the most as a rider.

yd35 · Mar 6, 2010

Without having any saddle time on either bike, I will offer my bit of e-speculation. I guarantee that either bike will be a huge upgrade over the Big Hit, and I'm pretty sure that if you rode the Supreme DH and 951 back to back, while they probably ride differently, you wouldn't be able to say one was significantly better than the other. In other words, both bikes probably rock! With that said, I'd just buy the one you can get a better price on. I've seen 09 Supremes going for about 2100, and like the previous guy said, you get a lot of extras with that. 951s are in the 2700 range for frame and shock, so I say go for the Commencal.

Capricorn · Mar 6, 2010

hold off on the 951. It's rather telling when Team Intense/CRC went from the 951 to the 3rd gen Intense M6 EVO..

norbar · Mar 6, 2010

Capricorn said:
hold off on the 951. It's rather telling when Team Intense/CRC went from the 951 to the 3rd gen Intense M6 EVO..

They simply prefer how the m6 rides over the 951 but does it make a 951 a horrble bike? I think it's a bit overhyped but that's all. Yeti guys seem to prefer the full on 303 over the r one and is it "rather telling" about the 303r?

Tayrob · Mar 6, 2010

I'm on an 09' Supreme DH WC edition right now and have been for about 6 months.I love it.The bike is so adjustable...head angle,wheel base,brake position,so you can suit it to whatever feel you like.The suspension feeling amazing,super supple in the begining with a noticable ramp up towards the end of the stroke.You might have to change your spring rate due to this,I had to step down 50lbs because it felt harsh and like I wasn't using all the travel I could be.Plus,it comes with a Thomson post,E13 guide,and Sun Ringle rear hub.

There are a few little things with the frame...the weight,with the DHX5,350lbs steel spring,Thomson post,King headset and rear axle my frame was almost 14 pounds.Also your linkage will come loose...alot,pull everything apart and loctite every bolt before the first ride.It might still come loose after that,but not dangerously loose like mine did.Although mine and my friend's is starting to stay tight after about 8-10 rides/tightenings.The DHX5 felt terrible,too(IMO).I quickly replaced it with an Elka and my friend replaced his with an RC4.Both made a noticable difference,you might like it,I surely didn't.Last and smallest,the frame comes with a QR seat clamp.Not a big deal,but come on...can't spec a cheap bolt on on a DH bike?

Some quick approx. geo numbers for you,too.
(Set up with an 09' Boxxer team,and 2.5 WTB Dissents)
Head angle(fully slacked)-63*.
BB height-14''.
Wheel base(shortest position)-46''.

Hope this helps!

Commencal-guy · Mar 6, 2010

Tayrob said:
I'm on an 09' Supreme DH WC edition right now and have been for about 6 months.I love it.The bike is so adjustable...head angle,wheel base,brake position,so you can suit it to whatever feel you like.The suspension feeling amazing,super supple in the begining with a noticable ramp up towards the end of the stroke.You might have to change your spring rate due to this,I had to step down 50lbs because it felt harsh and like I wasn't using all the travel I could be.Plus,it comes with a Thomson post,E13 guide,and Sun Ringle rear hub.

There are a few little things with the frame...the weight,with the DHX5,350lbs steel spring,Thomson post,King headset and rear axle my frame was almost 14 pounds.Also your linkage will come loose...alot,pull everything apart and loctite every bolt before the first ride.It might still come loose after that,but not dangerously loose like mine did.Although mine and my friend's is starting to stay tight after about 8-10 rides/tightenings.The DHX5 felt terrible,too(IMO).I quickly replaced it with an Elka and my friend replaced his with an RC4.Both made a noticable difference,you might like it,I surely didn't.Last and smallest,the frame comes with a QR seat clamp.Not a big deal,but come on...can't spec a cheap bolt on on a DH bike?

Some quick approx. geo numbers for you,too.
(Set up with an 09' Boxxer team,and 2.5 WTB Dissents)
Head angle(fully slacked)-63*.
BB height-14''.
Wheel base(shortest position)-46''.

Hope this helps!

A note to the linkage comming loose, The newer models 2010's use different hardware that prevents the linkages from loosening up.

Tayrob · Mar 6, 2010

Do you know if you can pick this new hardware up and if it fits the 09's?

fl1ppo · Mar 6, 2010

Should fit, as just the screws have changed from what I can see. The washers are gone now. But I would just use Loctite. The screws on my old frame were fine after retightening two times, even without Loctite...

Commencal-guy · Mar 6, 2010

fl1ppo said:
Should fit, as just the screws have changed from what I can see. The washers are gone now. But I would just use Loctite. The screws on my old frame were fine after retightening two times, even without Loctite...

I second this too

brocelif · Mar 6, 2010

I started last year on a Supreme DH and ended it on a 951. I loved the suspension on the Supreme(rc4). I think it is the best suspension I have been on. However, I missed the amazing cornering of my M6. So I picked up a 951 (rc4)and I am loving the cornering/handling. I am surprised that the vpp gen. 2 idoesn't seem better than a single pivot/linkage. The Intense quality is noticeably better. As someone said earlier, they are both incredible. Maybe the perfect bike is still out there. Have fun with your choice.

dilzy · Mar 7, 2010

Commencals are much much heavier built, so if your hard on your bike, Intense frames aren't the best. Dings and twisted rear triangles seem to be the most common occurance.

Capricorn · Mar 7, 2010

norbar said:
They simply prefer how the m6 rides over the 951 but does it make a 951 a horrble bike? I think it's a bit overhyped but that's all. Yeti guys seem to prefer the full on 303 over the r one and is it "rather telling" about the 303r?

considering when the 951 launched, it is rather telling, especially since sales are based on appearances. Dont know about the 303 saga. So undo the wedgie and go wild.
besides, no-one said the 951 is crap, except you and the owners else who says it's too progressive.

norbar · Mar 7, 2010

Capricorn said:
considering when the 951 launched, it is rather telling, especially since sales are based on appearances. Dont know about the 303 saga. So undo the wedgie and go wild.
besides, no-one said the 951 is crap, except you and the owners else who says it's too progressive.

Where did I say it was crap? I was just saint it's overhyped (because ppl would buy anything that looks good and has an intense sticker on it).
The 951 is what crc guys said - they prefer m6's (acording to a friend who rode with them at remo).

fl1ppo · Mar 7, 2010

I'm not too sure about that. While riding it, it feels indestructible. But the 09ers had some problems with the seams in the headtube area.
Mine had a small crack there after last season, but I got a brand new 2010 frame without issues. Just like everybody else I know, who had cracks... So if you get a new frame with warranty, it would probably be no problem to get a new frame if you have problems too.
I love my Supreme and I definitively wouldn't swap it for a 951. An m6 evo for example would be another story...

WBC · Mar 7, 2010

There's plenty of reasons to buy either frame, and for what its worth, if I was buying a "race bike" I feel like I would be faster on the Commencal (because of just how well it takes square edge hits and big hits from coming way too hot into a section) than I am on my 951. On the other hand, the 951 rails corners and flicks around easier than pretty much any other bike I've ridden. Really really fun.

In terms of strength, I'm not saying one frame is stronger than the other, but from my experience, I have noticed that a frame without an interrupted seat-tube can be built much lighter than a frame that has its seat-tube pierced for the shock/linkage because tubes are much lighter than forged/cnc'd yokes/plates for the same strength.

Also, the 951 is over 10.5 lbs with the shock - hardly ridiculously light. I have shuttled with mine a ton on all sorts of tailgates and home-made racks, as well as have had a few off-the-bikes in rock-gardens and my frame is still dent free. The 951 seems much more durable than the SOCOM.

There are many reasons to buy one vs. the other, but with the new swingarm, the new front triangle and the new bearings, I don't think there is a big difference in strength or durability, if it all, between the 951 and the Supreme. The SOCOM was flexier than my 5" trailbike, whereas my 951 is just about as stiff as anything else on the DH market. Big differences between the two frames.

norbar · Mar 7, 2010

fl1ppo said:
I'm not too sure about that. While riding it, it feels indestructible. But the 09ers had some problems with the seams in the headtube area.
Mine had a small crack there after last season, but I got a brand new 2010 frame without issues. Just like everybody else I know, who had cracks... So if you get a new frame with warranty, it would probably be no problem to get a new frame if you have problems too.
I love my Supreme and I definitively wouldn't swap it for a 951. An m6 evo for example would be another story...

I know of one case of cracking in the susp pivot area too - early 09 when they had some issues there. That's why I didn't go the supreme way - all the people I knew with them had some kind of a problem and commencal warranty takes a bit too much time for my taste.

Commencal-guy · Mar 7, 2010

norbar said:
I know of one case of cracking in the susp pivot area too - early 09 when they had some issues there. That's why I didn't go the supreme way - all the people I knew with them had some kind of a problem and commencal warranty takes a bit too much time for my taste.

**** happens get over it. Welcome to the sport of biking. Stuff breaks all the time. The later 09 and newer Commencal's are batched from an entirely different facility. Thats why you'll notice slightly different weldings on the newer models. Plus Commencal uped their horrible thin paint job, to a thicker better quality.

norbar · Mar 7, 2010

Commencal-guy said:
**** happens get over it. Welcome to the sport of biking. Stuff breaks all the time. The later 09 and newer Commencal's are batched from an entirely different facility. Thats why you'll notice slightly different weldings on the newer models. Plus Commencal uped their horrible thin paint job, to a thicker better quality.

So if you know they upped their quality why you get so upset about my post? I got over it quite fast - ordered a different frame.

btw. all the people I knew with the newer ones were quite happy about them. It would really be a great bike if it lost a bit of weight and still would be tempting if I didnt't find a good price on sth else.

Commencal-guy · Mar 7, 2010

norbar said:
So if you know they upped their quality why you get so upset about my post? I got over it quite fast - ordered a different frame.

btw. all the people I knew with the newer ones were quite happy about them. It would really be a great bike if it lost a bit of weight and still would be tempting if I didnt't find a good price on sth else.

Who says I was upset? I just felt like being cool like the big boy's :thumb:

fl1ppo · Mar 7, 2010

Well, the finish of my 2010 frame isn't really better than on my old frame, but I think that it wasn't too bad as well.

But I really felt a difference in terms of the dimensional accuracy. Everything fits perfectly now. For example, now I can rotate the headtube sleeve by hand, even while the whole bike is assembled. On the old frame that was only possible when there was no headset installed...

Harriieee · Mar 8, 2010

Two bikes with race geo and linkage-activated single pivots. The 951 is lightweight, Commencals have a reputation for separating themselves from their headtube in past seasons... I haven't actually ever seen a damaged or broken 951 (unlike the flood of pictures that found their way onto message boards by this time last year RE the Session 88), I reckon it's more durable than its SOCOMy looks suggest. I'd say thay're more or less on a par.... if you could get one cheaper than the other, go for it.

norbar · Mar 8, 2010

The cracking commencals were the pre 09 ones that were significantly lighter than the current ones (1kg less with shock?).

As for the 951 - since when intense makes single pivots?

bdamschen · Mar 8, 2010

Harriieee said:
Two bikes with race geo and linkage-activated single pivots. The 951 is lightweight, Commencals have a reputation for separating themselves from their headtube in past seasons... I haven't actually ever seen a damaged or broken 951 (unlike the flood of pictures that found their way onto message boards by this time last year RE the Session 88), I reckon it's more durable than its SOCOMy looks suggest. I'd say thay're more or less on a par.... if you could get one cheaper than the other, go for it.

For the record. I beat the crap out of my socom, and it was plenty durable. I'd probably still be beating the crap out of it, except someone stole it. I'm about 210 lbs and can get lazy (the opposite of smooth) through rough sections. I also have a tendency to get excited and overshoot stuff in races.

I am currently beating the crap out of a 951, but I can't say how durable it is yet since I haven't had a full season on it yet.

No issues so far though.

rockofullr · Mar 8, 2010

norbar said:
I know of one case of cracking in the susp pivot area too - early 09 when they had some issues there. That's why I didn't go the supreme way - all the people I knew with them had some kind of a problem and commencal warranty takes a bit too much time for my taste.

I agree I have been put off Commencal after I saw a few friends have trouble with the supreme (two bikes cracked in the pivot area).

And like norbar says the CS kinda sucked.

The new bikes claim to have fixed the problems but that's what everyone says.

xy9ine · Mar 8, 2010

boom:

...not that a couple snapped bike pics without background info conclusively indicate flawed design, it just amuses me how forums run with this kind of info. go!

bdamschen · Mar 8, 2010

Last I heard, intense is expecting to get that green frame back in to analyze it this week. If there's an issue, I betcha they find it and get 951 owners squared away.

rockofullr · Mar 8, 2010

That is an epic looking failure!

Some people seem to have the inside scoop on this. Any word on how it happened?

YoPawn · Mar 8, 2010

It's pics like that, that keep my DH/FR bike over 40 lbs.

I can handle failures, but when they are on the front of the bike, it can get nasty. :eek:

Pegboy · Mar 8, 2010

rockofullr said:
That is an epic looking failure!

Some people seem to have the inside scoop on this. Any word on how it happened?

The stupidity on this site never ceases to amaze me. Obviously the guy was just riding along when...

bullcrew · Mar 8, 2010

YoPawn said:
It's pics like that, that keep my DH/FR bike over 40 lbs.

I can handle failures, but when they are on the front of the bike, it can get nasty.

Doesnt matter if the build was 35lbs or 45 on the intense the frame broke in half and Mikes build (green) is 43 lbs and he weighs 140. It happened in a rock garden at table rock week and a half ago.

If his wheelset exploded or bars broke then Id say he was running too light og components but the frame he cant skimp on.... :thumb:

rockofullr · Mar 8, 2010

bullcrew said:
Doesnt matter if the build was 35lbs or 45 on the intense the frame broke in half and Mikes build (green) is 43 lbs and he weighs 140. It happened in a rock garden at table rock week and a half ago.

If his wheelset exploded or bars broke then Id say he was running too light og components but the frame he cant skimp on....

Was it a result of a crash or did the failure occur while he was still sending it?

bullcrew · Mar 8, 2010

rockofullr said:
Was it a result of a crash or did the failure occur while he was still sending it?

LOL still sending it, he came in hot went through the top section dropped to the right went to bump jump the other rock and overshoot the rockpile and the fork didnt even get a real chance to depress it literally SNAPPED real loud and didnt try and let the fork move.
Mike lawn darted into the rocks, they had him send it back for analysis and working on a replacement.
Lets see 2 confirmed 951s snapped in same place 2 more unconfirmed issues!

Ill stick with my Jedi LOL I havent seen a snapped canfield!

TheInedibleHulk · Mar 9, 2010

I'd say you have chosen wisely with the Commencal. My main complaint with the 951 is that in the slackest position it is excessively low. I like the BB right at or just below 14", but want the 63 degree HT angle. When Intense adds a head tube sleeve to their bikes, they will be pretty awesome in terms of adjust-ability. I run my Supreme full slack and full long on the stays, which requires a lot of english in tight turns but feels like a moto on the wide open sections. The new hardware is far superior to last year, and their minor changes on the shock mount and gusset welds should fix the tiny little cracks that were developing, although even those were nothing that was going to hurt anything. Did a 951 long term update with a couple of our riders on our blog (see link in sig), and will be doing a bike check on the 2010 Supreme soon.

Brian HCM#1 · Mar 9, 2010

YoPawn said:
It's pics like that, that keep my DH/FR bike over 40 lbs.

I can handle failures, but when they are on the front of the bike, it can get nasty.

Actually it's the truth. I'm sure Intense is on it with the breakage issues. You need to draw the line for a DH bike, you can't go that light & compromise strength.

iRider · Mar 10, 2010

bullcrew said:
Lets see 2 confirmed 951s snapped in same place 2 more unconfirmed issues!

Ill stick with my Jedi LOL I havent seen a snapped canfield!

With I9 wheels you didn't seem to be so concerned. Is Intense not giving you good enough discounts?

iRider · Mar 12, 2010

Here the story behind the green 951:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showpost.php?p=6683292&postcount=95

Some minor details to Bullcrew's.

Help me out. Commencal Supreme DH or 951?

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