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New Mahindra Diesel Pickups!

buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
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California is the reason automakers are skiddish about bringing the diesels to america. Diesels have worse particlate emissions and CARB has yet to decide if the new "clean diesels" will be allowed.
Since Cali accounts for a huge percentage of the US car market, nobody wants to import a truck that they can't sell nationwide. What about Cali emissions? Many cars sol in the western US are actually cal emissions vehicles.

I don't see the big 3 doing a midsize diesel anytime soon. They have all been promising a 1/2 ton for years and they never deliver. Chevy recently scrapped their entire 6 cyl Duramax engine development program.
 
boogenman

boogenman

Turbo Monkey
Nov 3, 2004
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The big three are not selling diesel trucks domestically because the engines are still dirty for the tree huggers and hippies and because the baby boomers think diesels are loud, stinky and unreliable in the cold.

I love my TDI and I will drive diesels for the rest of my life if possible.

VW sucks, I just like the TDI engine. :popcorn:
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
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buildyourown said:
California is the reason automakers are skiddish about bringing the diesels to america. Diesels have worse particlate emissions and CARB has yet to decide if the new "clean diesels" will be allowed.
Since Cali accounts for a huge percentage of the US car market, nobody wants to import a truck that they can't sell nationwide. What about Cali emissions? Many cars sol in the western US are actually cal emissions vehicles.
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the biggest problem they are having is in the new CAFE standards that differ from the EPA's current standards. most automakers are looking to make their newer cars CAFE compliant

new current diesels have been proven to be far cleaner than a typical gas engine. look at what mercedes is doing with their system.
power, reliability, eco-friendly (comparatively), better mpg's......
 
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dan-o

dan-o

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Jun 30, 2004
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buildyourown said:
Chevy recently scrapped their entire 6 cyl Duramax engine development program.
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That engine, a 4.5l V8, is complete and was ready for production, met '10 emissions etc but was killed in light of recent developments. That's turn-key and ready to roll.
 
buildyourown

buildyourown

Turbo Monkey
Feb 9, 2004
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dan-o said:
That engine, a 4.5l V8, is complete and was ready for production, met '10 emissions etc but was killed in light of recent developments. That's turn-key and ready to roll.
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Right, but now it's mothballed. Which means it would take at least 2 years to get it in a vehicle. By then, it won't meet emissions anymore, so reset the clock and dump even more money into the program.

I'm as pro-diesel as they get. I really wanted to get another one but I got tired of driving 1-ton trucks.
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

I'm Mr. Negative! I Fail!
Aug 2, 2008
24,524
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Im over here now
buildyourown said:
Right, but now it's mothballed. Which means it would take at least 2 years to get it in a vehicle. By then, it won't meet emissions anymore, so reset the clock and dump even more money into the program.
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actually, since they made it to CAFE standards, then even if it comes out in three or four years, it will still be fine
 
jdcamb

jdcamb

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Feb 17, 2002
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I wish my civic could be turned into a diesel. Then I would have a diesel race car. I would win in it because i am a winner. Which why I am posting here at 10:30 in the morning instead of working.... Off to the races.
 
valve bouncer

valve bouncer

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Feb 11, 2002
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BurlyShirley said:
If they'd sell those here id get one.
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Toyota can't sell enough of 'em in Australia, I'm sure they'd go well in your part of the world. Why they don't has me f*cked.
Edit- OK it was explained upthread why diesels aren't flavour of the month in America.
 
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jdcamb

jdcamb

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IH8Rice said:
remember to think positive!
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I am all about being upbeat and positive.

Except for the cops folks just don't understand racing around here... The folks in line at the drivethru at Tim Hortons are idiots. I am not cutting in line, I taking position. Tactics.... I had to go to the Bank to finally find some decent competition. I won again! I am in first place in the east side stock auto series. I am a winner! I have to go all the way to Buffalo for some decent competition... I'm to fast. Getting a diesel would be unfair to the others...
 
Leppah

Leppah

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Mar 12, 2008
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^^^I'm with you. My truck has roll up windows, AC, and power steering. That's all i need. CC is nice for road trips though.

I might get me a stripped down Nissan Cube in a few years. I kinda like those.

There are quite a few VW diesel trucks cruising around here. Do you guys see them around your areas much?
 
ALEXIS_DH

ALEXIS_DH

Tirelessly Awesome
Jan 30, 2003
6,147
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what requirements are harder to meet, EURO IV, or CARB??

as far as i know, toyota common rail diesels meet EURO IV, and EURO IV levels are very low. does anybody knows what the NOx, COx and HC ppm are for CARB? i cant seem to find.

i doubt they are lower than EURO IV, thus i am still wondering why those cars arent sold in the states...
 
jimmydean

jimmydean

The Official Meat of Ridemonkey
Sep 10, 2001
41,149
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Thanks for the link, BS! I is wanting too.

<edit>

I hope it comes with that pimp ass bike, too!

 
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syadasti

syadasti

i heart mac
Apr 15, 2002
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HAB said:
They only list an auto trans. That blows. Will there be a manual?
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Comes with awesome ad copy though:rofl:

Top it off with a 4-year 60,000 mile bumper-to-bumper warranty and you’ll find that these babies are even more cost-efficient than the best hybrids and are brimming with uncompromising features.
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H

Hulkamaniac

Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
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Germantown, MD
ALEXIS_DH said:
what requirements are harder to meet, EURO IV, or CARB??

as far as i know, toyota common rail diesels meet EURO IV, and EURO IV levels are very low. does anybody knows what the NOx, COx and HC ppm are for CARB? i cant seem to find.

i doubt they are lower than EURO IV, thus i am still wondering why those cars arent sold in the states...
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The problem isn't that EURO IV certification levels wouldn't meet CARB certification levels, rather, it's that CARB enjoys being the bully in these cases. CARB wants it their way and their way only, even if said product easily meets EPA and EURO IV standards. To bad 13 other states follow CARB's lead!
 
syadasti

syadasti

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Hulkamaniac said:
The problem isn't that EURO IV certification levels wouldn't meet CARB certification levels, rather, it's that CARB enjoys being the bully in these cases. CARB wants it their way and their way only, even if said product easily meets EPA and EURO IV standards. To bad 13 other states follow CARB's lead!
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Actually, yes, our standards for NOx are stricter than Euro 4 and even Euro 6. This is the primary reason we don't have too many diesel models from other markets - its expensive to make treatment/catalyst systems that meet the US standard especially for larger engines:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2009/12/tum-20091207.html

"Under Euro 6 specifications, a diesel engine may emit 5 milligrams of soot particles and 80 milligrams of NOx per kilometer&#8212;a fifth of the soot and a quarter of the NOx allowed by the Euro 4 Norm that was valid until August, and less than half of the nitrogen oxides tolerated by the Euro 5 Norm. The coming 0.08 g/km Euro 6 NOx requirement is less stringent than the current US EPA Tier 2 Bin 5/CA LEV II NOx requirement of 0.044 g/km (0.07 g/mi)."
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MikeD

MikeD

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Oct 26, 2001
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BurlyShirley said:
If they'd sell those here id get one.
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The small short-wheelbase models are awesome, too.

Those are everywhere here. Love 'em, although the normal Land Cruisers and Prados are better around-town and pavement cars.

Seeing as I'm heading to India and will need a RHD car, might look at something like the Mahindra. Was considering a Land Cruiser or a crewcab HiLux, but when in Rome...
 
Pesqueeb

Pesqueeb

bicycle in airplane hangar
Feb 2, 2007
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I'm greatly intrigued by the two door, I'd love a mid sized diesel pickup. IMHO the styling is kind of hideous though, and HAB is right, no manual transmission = no care.
 
H

Hulkamaniac

Monkey
Oct 10, 2001
501
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syadasti said:
Actually, yes, our standards for NOx are stricter than Euro 4 and even Euro 6. This is the primary reason we don't have too many diesel models from other markets - its expensive to make treatment/catalyst systems that meet the US standard especially for larger engines:
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What I am saying is that in the grand scheme of things, CARB is the ultimate hang-up in the system. Granted, EURO standards don't technically meet CARB certs, but CARB has issued Executive Orders in these types of situations before for a variety of other fuels. What I have experienced in my seven years in the alt fuels automotive world in which I work would seem to indicate that they enjoy holding the power and stifling development/progress. CARB has also been known to change their requirements mid-stream, often without adequate notice, in terms of verification for emissions testing and what fuel source they are working with at that time.
 
syadasti

syadasti

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Hulkamaniac said:
What I am saying is that in the grand scheme of things, CARB is the ultimate hang-up in the system. Granted, EURO standards don't technically meet CARB certs,
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NOx emissions should be tightly regulated, its bad - respiratory problems, creates smog, destroys the ozone layer, and along with particulates from diesel exhaust causes cancer. I don't think diesel production could keep up with US demands anyways if it became more popular, especially as in Europe. You'd probably lose the economic advantages of diesel pretty quickly as demand scaled up.

Considering there are various diesel models already on the market from many makes and this Mahindra is upcoming the reasons for limited roll out are economic. Nissan and Honda put the brakes on their diesel roll out themselves, the government had nothing to do it with that. They did the market research and a US diesel comeback not as great as once thought especially with the recession.
 
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BurlyShirley

BurlyShirley

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Jul 4, 2002
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The conventional wisdom is that you never buy a new brand/model of something in its first few runs of production, as all the initial kinks and bugs may not have been discovered before production.
Im thinking otherwise here. Im willing to bet that the first few runs of these trucks are going to be absolutely bomb-proof, because the company knows it has to form a good impression on the american public...who love and tough, reliable vehicles.
Once that impression is made, I bet the either look for ways to cut costs to maintain their low 20's pricepoint, or they raise the price of the vehicle.
Im thinking of going all in on one the first year if I like the test drive and the major reviewers dont find a ton of faults.
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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BurlyShirley said:
The conventional wisdom is that you never buy a new brand/model of something in its first few runs of production, as all the initial kinks and bugs may not have been discovered before production.
Im thinking otherwise here. Im willing to bet that the first few runs of these trucks are going to be absolutely bomb-proof, because the company knows it has to form a good impression on the american public...who love and tough, reliable vehicles.
Once that impression is made, I bet the either look for ways to cut costs to maintain their low 20's pricepoint, or they raise the price of the vehicle.
Im thinking of going all in on one the first year if I like the test drive and the major reviewers dont find a ton of faults.
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doubt it. Most foreign manufacturers don't fully understand the nacho-lovin, text messagin', "why don't it work" 'merkan driving public, and I expect these trucks not to run like a "never maintain it" camry or corolla. I bet the second year all of those very minor issues are corrected, but it'll be the subtle nuances that hold it up.
 
MikeD

MikeD

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You're suggesting Third World drivers are skilled and eager practicioners of scheduled maintenance? India and Africa aren't Germany, man.
 
H

Hulkamaniac

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Oct 10, 2001
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syadasti said:
NOx emissions should be tightly regulated, its bad - respiratory problems, creates smog, destroys the ozone layer, and along with particulates from diesel exhaust causes cancer. I don't think diesel production could keep up with US demands anyways if it became more popular, especially as in Europe. You'd probably lose the economic advantages of diesel pretty quickly as demand scaled up.
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I'm not arguing with you on diesel issues at all. I work in the alt fuels industry, have done so for the last seven years, thus I am all to aware of the associated NOx, PM, CO, and HC issues. Clean diesel technology can, however, still go a long way...just because you no longer see the black smoke coming out of the tailpipe anymore doesn't mean the problem is gone. I believe there are much better fuel options for the job, but each comes with it's own infrastructure problems that the US has to work through.

Again, not arguing with you, just merely stating that CARB (love 'em or hate 'em) is a factor in why you don't see more alt fuels, clean diesel development, etc. vehicles on the road....particularly in CARB following states.
 
IH8Rice

IH8Rice

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Aug 2, 2008
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MikeD said:
You're suggesting Third World drivers are skilled and eager practicioners of scheduled maintenance? India and Africa aren't Germany, man.
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lol, yep i agree. im sure those people arent going to Meneike for their 3000 mile oil changes


Hulkamaniac said:
Clean diesel technology can, however, still go a long way...just because you no longer see the black smoke coming out of the tailpipe anymore doesn't mean the problem is gone. I believe there are much better fuel options for the job, but each comes with it's own infrastructure problems that the US has to work through.
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isnt Mercedes blue-tec diesel the cleanest vehicle on the market right now? with both their urea injection for NOx reduction and a advanced catalytic converter to cut down on particulates, it is a pretty "green" engine
 
Sandwich

Sandwich

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MikeD said:
You're suggesting Third World drivers are skilled and eager practicioners of scheduled maintenance? India and Africa aren't Germany, man.
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No, I'm suggesting they aren't as unforgiving as american drivers, for one. Something breaks on an american car? That's not right, and anybody should be able to fix it. Something breaks in the middle of India? Who cares, it's just a turn signal and Rashmi will just have to watch out for me.

I think most american drivers expect a certain level of quality and are taken aback when things aren't held to that level.
 
boogenman

boogenman

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Nov 3, 2004
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HAB said:
They only list an auto trans. That blows. Will there be a manual?
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Americans hate manual shift, diesels and crank windows. Duh.

Look at the Smart car, it comes with a $hit box gas engine in North America. I don't even know why anyone would buy one with a gas engine. I remember when they were only for sale in Canada 4 or 5 years ago they had a turbo Diesel then. I saw a dude on the QEW near Toronto doing 80mph in one and then saw him at a red light later on, roled down the window and had a chat(Canadians love to talk) he said he was getting 65mpg!!
 
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